move from TimoBoll ALC to innerfoce blade

[Tyce]

Someone who has played national divisions in the past, even if it's 30y ago, should be perfectly capable of learning to control that TB ALC. The problem here is the very tensory Tenergy on it.

Lacking speed behind the table with Rakza 7 on this blade isn't strange either. That rubber completely transforms when you put it on carbon and not in a good way. It's also very sensitive to reglueing, loses a lot of pop when you take it off.

 

[NetProphet]

Someone who has played national divisions in the past, even if it's 30y ago, should be perfectly capable of learning to control that TB ALC.

I disagree. 30 years is a lifetime and TB ALC is not easy to learn with. And some of the comments (winning points from generating backspin leading to net errors) kinda shout beginner - which you are if you've missed 30 years of this game!
I went ~27 yrs and was completely out of touch coming back. The new ball, new rubbers, carbon blades and my shite technique and bad habits, it was a disaster!!!!

The problem here is the very tensory Tenergy on it.

Maybe...or maybe it's the blade too?

Lacking speed behind the table with Rakza 7 on this blade isn't strange either.

Adding the Rakza 7 comment and Rakza X comment to everything else shouts poor technique.
I've played both of those rubbers and I can hit the table with them no issue, as can many others I see use them every night. 🤷‍♂️

That rubber completely transforms when you put it on carbon and not in a good way. It's also very sensitive to reglueing, loses a lot of pop when you take it off.

Again, maybe....but I've moved R7s and X's from blade to blade and not noticed that...
But anyway, I'm not here to discredit your opinions, I just don't agree with them because they don't tally with my own experience.
My advice to the OP would be ditch the carbon and get a decent blade to learn with R7 and RX type rubbers.

At this stage he has plenty of info and opinions to decide whatever he wants and we'll probably never know the outcome but I'd bet my racket that some exotic ZLC type blade is not the answer here...

 

[banbekas]

Wait what? It cannot be me...can it😄.
I do think that I moved up too quickly. Coming from celluloid the new ball felt slow and therefore probably ended up with a combo demanding a bit more skill/feel then currently available. Others at my club also find it a tricky combo (except one elite player). So on the look out for a bit more docile combo to help me develop instead of learning the wrong technique to compensate for the too advanced setup. If that makes sense

It can be. Even an unboosted H3 won't help you with the short game if you lack the touch and skill for it. My brother plays with TB ALC paired with D05 and T05fx, and his short game is just as good as, if not better, than mine who uses Yinhe Max 02 with VP on both sides. If you think he's a better player than me, he's not. I have to give 2- or 3-point handicap just to make it an even game. So, If I were you, I'd stick with T05fx and focus on improving your short game with it.

 

[latej]

But it leaves the question open. Would the innerforce would be easier to play with for the shortgame? compared to the TB ALC I can always swap to rakza or rozena.

This cannot be said, the innerforce vs outerforce is really not that simple. E.g. I have Viscaria 88g and Innerforce-type blade from SDC, originally 93g, and the serve receive is easier a bit with Viscaria because the Kiri core absorbs more than my dense ayous core on the SDC W997 blade... I am personally the inner-like type, for me, the main point is the difference in how the blade behaves in stronger shots. The outerforce tend to be more lower throwing, so even though it can be slower, like my Viscaria, it is lower throwing in the shots in which I put power and that disturbs me on the FH. Yes on the BH I actually like that behavior, and that is also why I prefer not so spin-sensitive and a bit lower-throwing rubbers one the BH... So I'd personally recommend inner-force like blade, but that really is personal. I can imagine someone coming from say balsa blade would initially prefer outer-force with kiri core, rather than inner-force with ayous...

Now the rubbers, those are equally decisive - I definitelly don't prefer T05 or T05fx and variants, its too bouncy and spin sensitive for me. You mentioned Rakza 7, it also has softer top-sheet, it's a good rubber, a bit more spin sensitive too... I'd recommend a combination like Fastarc G1 (FH) and C1 (BH), those have slightly harder top-sheet (but sponge is rel. soft 47/43) and so is not very spin sensitive... Or a combination like Glayzer G09C (FH) and Glayzer (BH), also good price, I mean relative to Dignics, Nuzn, etc... If you are into Yasaka, Rakza X is quite controlled, lower throwing, I liked it on the BH, the Rakza XX was a bit too hard for my BH, Rakza 9 too fast... In Xiom I liked Omega 7 Pro, Vega Pro also OK, Vega X I didn't like, quite spin sensitive, not good for blocking (all are 47, for BH)... Please note, all these are my pers. prefs. and views, but it may help you... Also, I wouldn't say Rakza 7 is slow, and imho, you should abandon that idea... Imagine people here recommend you rubbers like H3 - and I think too that would be a really good lesson for you too - and that is really a speed difference - even if you boost, you really need to put power to get it from those...

 

[Arlo]

He's less than 2 yrs back, with no coaching, after a 30 yr hiatus from TT.
I can't see how advising Outerforce CAF with Tenergy anything is a good way to learn again...

@OP
I think you need to be honest about your level and your intentions at this point.
Do you just want exotic equipment that you can compare V the better players at your club or do you want the best rubber and blade combo to actually help you develop you game and become a serious player?
The tried and tested method is a 5ply wood with Rakza 7 or similar.
From reading the initial post again the issues seem to be 100% technique with plenty of confusion.
Thinking ZLC or some other exotic thing to be the answer really just makes this a vanity thread that will stagnate your development.

If it was vanity I would have just bought the gear and go prancing around. Yes I consider myself to be a serious player. But will not end up at timo boll level obviously. I have some flaws and are well aware of those. Thinking of gear is part of this sport and its normal to question both technique and gear when things are not progessing as you would like to. I know training more will always help and sticking with the current setup is a safe move for progress. I'm generally satisfied, but thinking about a couple of tweaks to help progress is ok after being out of circulation that long. Was this combo the right thing (after a couple of years in). That's exactly the reason for the open-up and start the thread. dropping the tensor sheets is mentioned often and I guess I'll try that until the feeling has developed more. I'll have plenty of time when competition has finished. Could indeed be a rakza7 or similar. Or a softer frame with a bit harder rubber. Luckily we have the option here closeby in a shop that has several popular rubbers and frames ready to play. Also part of the fun and a bit of placebo.

ps. for me ending up with a new frame when my rubbers wear out is just a matter of passing a candystore when doing groceries at 5pm. somehome you end up with your nutrients ...and a snack. So you're in the TT shop, trying rubbers on frames and get greedy.

 

[Arlo]

- Has tried Rakza 7 and X on the blade but not enough power, spin when away from table, on a TB ALC.....
This all screams poor technique to me and the answer isn't in faster and professional grade equipment, at least not in any experience I've seen or had.

no I tried Rakza 7 on someone else's blade. And for me that lacked power (was also a carbon), but that's logical if you switch from the jumpy one to a less. you have to adjust, work more, change angles and cannot expect to rip winners from it from the get go. That doesn't necessarily sceam poor technique imho just more time needed to adjust. It seems the best option to move forward though. Not to change blade and rubbers at the same time but one of both.

I also fail to see why giving a high quality deep push or heavy underspin serve leading to a net error or lifted ball to open screams beginner. Although I don;t see those long push rallies as in the old days.

At this stage he has plenty of info and opinions to decide whatever he wants and we'll probably never know the outcome but I'd bet my racket that some exotic ZLC type blade is not the answer here...

yes I do and love the different opinions and options.
But why would I just leech the board never to return. I will provide the update, also if it doesn;t work out. It will however be after the competition season, so will be 2 months or so. thanks

 

[Amayzde]

He's less than 2 yrs back, with no coaching, after a 30 yr hiatus from TT.
I can't see how advising Outerforce CAF with Tenergy anything is a good way to learn again...

@OP
I think you need to be honest about your level and your intentions at this point.
Do you just want exotic equipment that you can compare V the better players at your club or do you want the best rubber and blade combo to actually help you develop you game and become a serious player?
The tried and tested method is a 5ply wood with Rakza 7 or similar.
From reading the initial post again the issues seem to be 100% technique with plenty of confusion.
Thinking ZLC or some other exotic thing to be the answer really just makes this a vanity thread that will stagnate your development.

Maybe not, but my intention is to give him a blade thats slower and more controlled, but similair in composition, so the feel isnt completely different. And then he can adjust his setup for more or less speed with the rubbers. And to judge whether he wants more or less speed, he can do that by glueing his old T05FX on the CAF, see how it plays and adjust from there.

I only mentioned butterfly rubbers because he seems to be biased thowards butterfly, but I agree that Rakza 7 would be a better option then any Tenergy in his situation.

 

[Arlo]

Maybe not, but my intention is to give him a blade thats slower and more controlled, but similair in composition, so the feel isnt completely different. And then he can adjust his setup for more or less speed with the rubbers. And to judge whether he wants more or less speed, he can do that by glueing his old T05FX on the CAF, see how it plays and adjust from there.

I only mentioned butterfly rubbers because he seems to be biased thowards butterfly, but I agree that Rakza 7 would be a better option then any Tenergy in his situation.

you mean any tensor I think? not just the tenergy/dignics

 

[Amayzde]

you mean any tensor I think? not just the tenergy/dignics

No, I meant so say any Tenergy. Rakza 7 is also tensor rubber.

The difference is that Tenergy is more 'easy to play' rubber for attacking. You get a high amount of speed and spin with little effort. But the drawback of this is that its harder to control on blocks and pushes.

The Rakza 7 is more of an allround rubber compared to Tenergy. You need a bit more effort to create the same spin and speed. But its not much if you ask me, its just a matter of getting used to. But Rakza is also less reactive to incoming spin. So pushes and blocks are alot easier to control without the ball flying off the table.

Dignics is a very different breed of rubbers. Its less bouncy then Tenergy, but also harder to play. You need a better technique to get the most out of it. And I wouldnt reccommend it to someone that is unsure about his choice of rubbers.

 

[Arlo]

No, I meant so say any Tenergy. Rakza 7 is also tensor rubber.

The difference is that Tenergy is more 'easy to play' rubber for attacking. You get a high amount of speed and spin with little effort. But the drawback of this is that its harder to control on blocks and pushes.

The Rakza 7 is more of an allround rubber compared to Tenergy. You need a bit more effort to create the same spin and speed. But its not much if you ask me, its just a matter of getting used to. But Rakza is also less reactive to incoming spin. So pushes and blocks are alot easier to control without the ball flying off the table.

Dignics is a very different breed of rubbers. Its less bouncy then Tenergy, but also harder to play. You need a better technique to get the most out of it. And I wouldnt reccommend it to someone that is unsure about his choice of rubbers.

check!

 

[ML fan ph]

You have several options.

Timo Boll ZLF
I personally found the Boll Spirit (basically a Boll ALC) a tad too hard and fast. For me the Boll ZLF was a great alternative. Its the same composition but the ZL fiber instead of the ALC makes it a tad softer and slower. For me this was the ultimate solution. Also, the balance is slightly more towards the handle which instantly improved my backhand. A drawback is that you have to lift slightly more then average when you step off the table.

Innerforce ZLC
I actually own this blade as well. Compared to the Boll ZLF this has similair speed, but slightly softer feel, higher throw, and less bouncy. So the IF ZLC better then the Boll ZLF if you want an extra edge in over the table play. As well for the short game as attacking half long balls. Its also better when playing away from the table.

Outerforce ALC
This is a new blade I havent played with, but it is supposed to be slower then the outer ALC blades (Boll ALC/Viscaria). Its also relatively 'cheap' compared to other Butterfly carbon blades: €120.

Outerforce CAF
I also havent played with this blade. But what I have heard from the few people that have tried it is that it reminded them of the ZLF. And its half the price of the Bol ZLF: €90


So If I didnt find my alternative yet, I would have tried 1 of the Outerforce blades. Like I said, they are relatively cheap compare to other fiber blades from Butterfly. And you can buy both of these for the same price as the IF ZLC.

If you want the same kind of feel as the Boll ALC but everything slightly less in terms of speed, bouncyness and reactivity then the Outerforce ALC is probably best for you.

If you want even less speed, bounce, etc. then the Outerforce CAF might be better. The Boll ZLF is also great, but it will probably become obsolete in the near future and is also very expensive given the Outerforce CAF might be not so different for half the price.

The IF ZLC could still be a great option, but its more of a gamble because the composition is completely different compared to the other options listed. So depending on your feeling with that composition, it might be a hit or miss. So if possible, try this blade before you buy it.

Thank you for the information too. I am also looking for best short game blade and powerful when hit harder. Maybe, a little slower and control than viscaria(same with tb alc) I have read that Revoldia CNF is like viscaria when hit hard, and hinoki on short game.
I have stuor cnf, I like it but I dont have tried the orig..revoldia cnf.

 

[Arlo]

So, short update. Longer one to follow. I switched to an innerforce blade and switched from the Tenergy fx to Rakza7 FH and Rakza7soft on BH. Any experiences stem from one 2h trainingsession and some matches so I might change my mind later on.

The BH is more controlled now as its slower and the frame does have a different feel to it than the TMB ALC (its also a fair bit slower). It's still quick though but less jumpy on the short play. The FH Rakza7 seems quicker than the previous combo, but I also have more feeling. It jumps quicker from the rubber, but stays longer on the frame. Which is a rather strange sensation at this moment. As the dwelltime with the tmb alc and tenergy was fairly short.

fh topspin is fine, the opening up backspin and finishers need adjustment in angle though.

Might be the difference in BH/FH which is new to me.

I think I willl enjoy this one.