MXP/FXP vs RAKZA7 on Nittaku AC

[Mar5kid]

MXP/FXP vs RAKZA7/Soft

I need advice with setting up my second bat.

I am currently playing with Tibhar FXP and MXP 2.0 on Tibhar stratus power wood blade.

As not initially intended I now use FXP on the forehand as I find it allows me to perform better looping action than the MXP. I get very good dwell feel when looping with FXP.

The MXP is lending very well to my backhand in that I can place, drive, punch and smash really well with great speed that can often win the point. Backhand loop is not there yet and I'm not sure if this particular rubber will be able to help in developing this.
Back hand flicks are also something I like to see happen with more ease and successfully more often.

Every now and than I swap the rubber side on the forehand and notice that I'm also improving slowly with looping quality on the MXP which is very encouraging as ideally I prefer the speed and spin of MXP on my forehand. I find that with the MXP on the forehand I can really drive, punch, power smash and counter hit very well and often win the rally with the extra speed and spin on my side. Looping/Brushing is still not easy or tactile as with FXP.
I feel I have to play a more faster aggressive game constantly with MXP which can obviously introduce errors especially with controlled short play.

The combo setup of FXP and MXP has been very useful in my learning and I'm happy I didn't put same rubber on both sides as both have different qualities that I like.

My new blade is the Nittaku Acoustic Carbon - and yes it's possibly fast to jump to from my current setup blade. I got a good price so couldn't resist.
My intention is to set this up for future use - an incentive to keep working hard at my stroke technique. I absolutely love the build quality of this blade and I have read many opinions that it is one of the few carbon blades that still feels close to wood even though it has carbon. Hopefully best of both worlds.

The blade has been sealed and is desperately in need of rubbers and this is where I can do with some advice.

Currently I'm thinking two possible combinations.

First is to go again with tried and tested FXP/MXP combo. This time I go Max only FXP (want more speed & spin) and best I stick with MXP 2.0 for now.

Could the MXP max rubber help with my forehand looping & flicks (extra dwell) or will the increased speed from max make learning more difficult ?

My second combo is to go with something different altogether -Rakza 7 on 2.0 BH & Rakza 7 Soft Max on FH. I'm slightly itching to try this rubber as I think the extra grip will assist my looping & flicks development.

As I have not tried Rakza rubbers for myself I would appreciate some comparison against MXP/FXP.
I'm aware it's an older generation rubber and not sure if this is a grounds not to go for it.

I'm under the impression speed wise the Rakza 7 lies below MXP and spin is more easier to generate through smaller movement ie easier technique.

I would also like Rakza 7 Soft compared to the MXP/FXP.

Both rubbers are on at special price at the moment so I would like to buy soon and hopefully put away for later ... if I'm strong enough to resist

 

[Mar5kid]

Leaving everything else aside Can someone please compare & contrast MXP Vs Rakza 7 & FXP Vs Rakza 7 soft ?
Can the older gen Rakza still stand up against newer Evo series ?

I like to to know differences in speed, rubber feel, spin & control.

*update* Bought lightly used Baracuda & Baracuda Slam to try out with Nittaku but have not had chance to play with yet.
Im still interested in getting a pair of Evo or Rakza rubbers for the Nittaku and putting away as they are on offer - 3 for 4.

 

[Avenger]

I may be able to chime in on this since I recently placed two MX-P rubbers on my spare blade: Max on forehand and 2.0 backhand. I've been playing with it for about a week, ~3 hours a session x5 sessions with my hitting partner. Prior to this I've been using primarily Rakza 7 for over a year, Max forehand and 2.0 backhand.

Both MX-P and Rakza 7 have a very similar feel for me. The learning curve with the transition from R7 to MXP was very minimal. There is definitely more speed that can be generated with the same stroke with MXP. R7 is no chump in this category but I realize about a 10% increase going to MXP. My backhand punch shots with MXP are stronger and more consistent. In terms of spin generation, I feel they are about the same. My serves and loops are just as spinny, not any less maybe a tad more than R7.

One of the main reason I enjoy playing with R7 is the feel of the ball on the rubber when I loop. That dwell time works very well for me. I was afraid that wasn't going to be the case with MXP since its touted as a faster rubber with a somewhat hard sponge. But the first time I tried hitting and looping with MXP, that sensation I cared so much for with R7 was there. Forehand and backhand loops are quite stable with a crisp, clean feel for both.

Control wise, both rubbers are excellent for the amount of spin and speed that can be generated. I seem to have better control with MXP. My shots are landing at a more consistent pace and I'm making fewer errors. However, R7 seems to be a tad better with the short game.

Overall:
Power and speed MXP > R7
Spin MXP = R7
Control MXP >= R7

I'm pretty satisfied playing with MXP but have no problem if I have to switch back to R7. Both have excellent playing qualities but I'll probably be sticking with MXP for a long while.

 

[Paccheco]

I have used the exact combo you want to know : Pair of Rakza7 with the Acoustic Carbon.
The only i thing i will not able to do is the comparision between Rakza and those Tibhar rubbers.

When i bough the Acoustic Carbon (L grip - 90gr) i first glued it with Nittaku Fastarc G-1&S-1. Those are outstanding rubbers and if i have stayed with the blade that would be the way to go.
After i found Acoustic Carbon a lot faster than i thought i glued those rubber on another blade and glue a pair of not-that-worn Rakza 7. Still fast but now controllable. Being spin and placement my source of points this combination was ok.

Now lets go to the rubber comparision :

Fastarc G-1 - Spinny/grippy rubber. 47-48 dgs. This rubber is hard and does need some hours to break in. The closest i found to Adidas P7 in terms of behaviour, +/- in feel.

Rakza 7 - Spinny/grippy rubber. 45 dgrs. Differently from G-1, sometimes you must engage sponge to generate high amount of spin or it will slip. Id it has the same speed as G-1 being bouncier on low gear. G-1 is more linear.

Rakza 7 Soft - Never tried it on AC. Despite Rakza 7 is my 1st choice of rubber, i dislike this one. Its nowhere linear. Difficult to block and bottom out frequently. It is 40-42 dgs, brittle. Very bouncy over the table, difficult to serve, unpredictable passive block. But sure, it does loop good.

FastArc S-1 - An enchanced Rakza 7 Soft. It is 40dgrs, maybe 38. Very grippy, somewhat linear (it behaves a lot like rakza 7) Very high throw for a soft rubber. I used it as BH on AC, it did the job. I did not feel like bottom out that easy and even when did, the ball went normally. It is brittle but the topsheet still like new after 4 months of use.

In short, all those rubbers are not that fast. Their emphasis is on spin and control but Fastarc S-1, this one is all about speed with decent spin and control. All of em are high throw being G-1 the highest. In terms of feel im much fond of G-1, It has all gears, very linear and it is a lot durable. I now use it on a Ludeack with Short pips. It is all i could ask for a controlled game.
Id say Rakza 7 is an easier to use G-1/Tenergy. It engages easily and you can get a high amount of spin by just brush. The downside is the long range rallies. It does not have that much power away from table. Maybe you do with Acoustic Carbon but your control would suffer. If you are not on level where long range rallies are frequent and your are more of a close/mid range looper , for sure it is rakza 7. It is so easy to use it, lasts a lot and pairs to T05 in spin.

I cannot comment on Tibhar rubbers though. Never used it properly.

 

[Mar5kid]

Thanks for your input guys. It's been helpful.

I had had a really good TT session this Wednesday with my current blade using FXP/MXP and realised how much I like my current setup.
I first played with NAC and the Barracuda rubbers and found the gameplay rather dull. My usual playing partner also felt my shots were not as good compared to my usual setup. The Barracuda rubbers did not bring any improvements to my play and in fact made my shots feel slower and dull. I felt less dwell time than the FXP and at the same time less power from those shots. Also the rubber is a terrible dust magnet. Nightmare to keep it clean unlike the Evo rubbers. Time to sell.


I'm now beginning to think that maybe Razka is also not the way forward for me. I thought it was a rubber much easier to play with than the MXP and I would use it to develop my gameplay before returning to MXP. It seems it is almost as fast and hard as MXP and doesn't offer any particular benefits over it -spin, speed etc. I was after easier looping and flicks.

Rakza 7 soft was my other option and again Im begining to think it will not be able to offer more over the FXP with which I'm doing really well with.
I think a similar rubber setup on both blades is more likely to benefit me in the long run. One set up faster and advanced for future play.
I'm now leaning towards a combination of FXP Max on FH and FXP 2.0/Max BH OR stick with MXP agan on BH.

The MXP 2.0 on BH of current blade is absolutly brilliant at fast drives and punches but I'm still struggling a little with consistent BH looping and flicks.
Maybe the catapult affect of MXP is too strong for my backhand as my technique is still weak.

Could increasing the the MXP sponge to Max on BH help with looping and flicks due to increased dwell from thicker sponge ?

Third option I can try out ELP rubber with FXP which I have no experience of. If has a different top sheet to FXP/MXP so I'm not sure what to expect.

 

[mquevedof]

Hey Mar5kid. I play with Evo MXP and FXP on Petr Korbel all wood blade, similar to your Tibhar Stratus wood. Before I had ELP on my forehand, however is a rubber that bottoms out quite easily. I would stick to MXP in your place; especially when you add carbon into the equation.

Hope this helps!





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[Ilia Minkin]

Before I had ELP on my forehand, however is a rubber that bottoms out quite easily.

How do you feel it?

 

[mquevedof]

How do you feel it?

Hi Ilia, good to hear from you. Last thing I heard about you were competing for free chicken with USDCarl and DerEtche.

Your question is a bit too open, can you be more especific...


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[Ilia Minkin]

Hi Ilia, good to hear from you. Last thing I heard about you were competing for free chicken with USDCarl and DerEtche.

Your question is a bit too open, can you be more especific...

Haha I mean that you told that "EL-P bottoms out easily", what do you mean by "bottoming out" and how do you observe it?

 

[mquevedof]

Haha I mean that you told that "EL-P bottoms out easily", what do you mean by "bottoming out" and how do you observe it?

Bottoming out is used to refer when the rubber and sponge are totally compressed, to the point that the ball makes contact with the wood. Soft rubber/sponge combinations will tend to bottom out easier compared to hard rubber/sponge combinations.

Now, as described by some in this forum the rubber/sponge will act as a spring accumulating energy gradually, however when you bottom out a rubber (when the ball gets in contact with the wood) the accumulation of energy stops abruptly, shutting out the ball in an awkward, uncontrollable manner.

I hope this clear things up [emoji2]


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[Ilia Minkin]

Bottoming out is used to refer when the rubber and sponge are totally compressed, to the point that the ball makes contact with the wood. Soft rubber/sponge combinations will tend to bottom out easier compared to hard rubber/sponge combinations.

Now, as described by some in this forum the rubber/sponge will act as a spring accumulating energy gradually, however when you bottom out a rubber (when the ball gets in contact with the wood) the accumulation of energy stops abruptly, shutting out the ball in an awkward, uncontrollable manner.

I hope this clear things up [emoji2]

So do you feel that EL-P bottoms out easily? On what kind of shots? I do play with EL-P and I don't have any problems with regard to that. Though sometimes on playing hard counterloops when the ball comes in really fast the ball might go into the net, but I'm more inclined to attribute these errors to my technique/timing...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

A couple of things I would say: if EL-P bottoms out easily for you, then why doesn't FX-P? FX-P is softer.

Why are you using something as hard as MX-P on BH and something as soft as FX-P on FH. Usually you want the harder rubber on FH because FH is the bigger stroke with the higher impact.


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[Mar5kid]

I'm surprised to hear that ELP is bottoming out.

UpsideDownCarl I ended up using MXP on the backhand as I discovered that I could get a better loop brushing action with the FXP on my FH ie MXP too fast on my forehand at the moment.

Fortunately to my surprise I found the MXP on backhand really useful as it allowed me to execute fast drives and punches as well as controlled blocks. Again Not so great for loops and flicks. I think the stronger catapult of MXP is not allowing me to effectively develop BH loops and flick. I particularly struggle doing loops and flicks against underspin
and the ball can often end in net or just off the table. I feel I really have to make a huge effort to get the shot right.
When I'm doing rally drills against top spin or flat hits it's not an issue.

Using FXP on BH, the loops and flicks are easier to perform and successful. Just like with FXP on FH, I can feel some dwell time although a lesser amount. The drives and punches are not as potent as MXP and so don't fly off the table blisteringly fast.

For now I think FXP is the correct rubber for me on the FH and possibly stepping it to Max.
Back hand I'm undecided and still confused. Ideally I want something that can give the dwell time of FXP and yet retain the speed of MXP when doing punches and drives. I'm sure it's my technique that needs development and not the rubber.

Upsidecarl do you think going MXP Max could help by providing the extra dwell time I'm after or will the additional speed that comes with thicker sponge introduce too much control issue ?

Or should I go with FXP on BH but possibly Max for the little extra speed im after ?

I definitely want to continue to develop my technique so that I can effectively use the MXP some point in the future on FH. I realise that it is truly a great rubber even though I cannot harness it fully. Great price, durability and spin/speed when called for.

 

[mquevedof]

A couple of things I would say: if EL-P bottoms out easily for you, then why doesn't FX-P? FX-P is softer.

Why are you using something as hard as MX-P on BH and something as soft as FX-P on FH. Usually you want the harder rubber on FH because FH is the bigger stroke with the higher impact.


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Good point USDCarl... Mar5kid indicated at the beginning of the thread he is using MXP on backhand... However he is trying to use MXP more on forehand recognizing on FH you need a rubber with more punch...

In my case I'm currently using FXP in BH and MXP on FH. ELP was on my FH before MXP. In sum being FXP on my BH the rubber does not bottom out as I lack the power on that side.

I hope to close the circle with this clarification.




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[Der_Echte]

I suspect the topsheet of FX-P is different, maybe different pips, maybe thicker topsheet, maybe differnt property of topsheet, I don't really know, just suspect.

On certain Nexy blades, like the Arirang, I prefered FX-P. I gave me the most spin and control on FH. FX-P did NOT play as soft as many FX rubbers from other companies. FX-P does NOT play like mush-mash, it is "juicy". Conversely, really hard sponged Aurus, and to a degree MX-P do not play as "Hard" as they are rated, not nearly at all.

I suspect that with Aurus and the Evo series, the topsheet has a lot to do with it.

 

[mquevedof]

Hi DerEtche, I'm on the same page... I just checked Tibhar web page, to try to see if pimple geometry is a factor....

Tibhar does make reference to different pimple geometry for the different versions, however is not as transparent as BTY is for their Tenergy series, as far as the technical data. For example BTY does provides pimple height, and pattern...

Check this out

http://www.tibhar.sk/pdf/evolution_info_mxs_en.pdf

This PDF contains a side by side comprasion of the different EVO versions.


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[Mar5kid]

@mquevedof..What thickness was your ELP ?

 

[mquevedof]

@mquevedof..What thickness was your ELP ?

Max



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[Knuckle Ball]

MX-P on my Acoustic Carbon FH is to jumpy on short game. I have a hard time landing my loops and drives. Speed is good but my FH strokes go off the table. TO5 is excellent on my NAC, easy to generate offense, loop till kingdom come.
MX-P I found better on my Kim Jung Hoon blade. Now FX-P I did not like at all, seemed jumpy, I don't know I just don't like FX-P.