Need help on blade

[Imran Sayyed]

Thank you very much for your help. It is really appreciated

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[UpSideDownCarl]

Thank you very much for your help. It is really appreciated

Glad I could help broaden the scope of how you are looking at equipment so you can make more informed decisions.



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[Jabugo]

So, let's see if I can do this subject justice.

The concept of "better", in regards to a "blade that would be better for YOU," still actually needs a context.

Is the context, what will give you the fastest shots? Or, what will give the most spin? Or, what will give you the best balance between spin and speed? Or, what will help you to win the most games now, today? OR, what will ultimately help you develop to the highest level in the long run, say, 4-5 years down the line?

If the fastest blade was the priority, then a blade like a Schlager Carbon would be ideal.

If, winning games right now, and/or best balance between speed and spin was the priority than a JM ZLC or an Apolonia blade might be what you want.

But if your concern is being at as high a level as possible 5 years from now, then the Acoustic or the Tenor just may be better for you.

Why? Well, it is a little slower. It doesn't have carbon. And it is a great blade for any level player as demonstrated by Ma Long using one through most of his under 18 career. That is worth repeating. Ma Long used that blade for his young career as he was developing.

Okay, so, let's see if I can explain why that was such an intelligent choice for Ma Long.

When baseball players wait in the on deck circle getting ready to bat, they put a weight called a doughnut on the end of the bat to make it heavier. Then when they swing for real the bat feels lighter and they can put more power into their swing.

The analogy is not completely parallel. I am saying that using a slightly slower 5 ply would blade with flex would, over the next several years cause you to top out at your peak level at a higher level.

The reason: carbon does a lot of the work for you so it makes it so your stroke does not have to be as good, so your timing doesn't have to be as precise, so your contact does not have to be so precise. And the tendency with that scenario is for people to accept good enough technique and this scenario does slow the development of power from the hips, legs and core, timing and precision contact; because with acarbon blade, the technique is "good enough". But with a wood blade you would still feel the room for improvement, your, your nervous system would register the need for better timing, better contact, more power from the hips, legs and core so you would develop those things to a higher level.

The Acoustic or the Tenor will make you need to work a little harder and be a little more precise. In the short term, it will feel like you are working harder. In the long term you will be rewarded with higher level technique.

In the end, it would be your choice. The Apolonia is a great choice for the short term, for having fun, for hitting the ball harder when less effort. You still would be able to get to a very high level with that blade. And if you were to get to a level like top 200, it wouldn't stop you from that.

But the Acoustic or the Tenor may get your technique a shade higher in the long run.

So it depends on what context you are thinking from, when you decide which blade would be "better" for you. I hope that makes sense.


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Carl, if a university taught table tennis theory, you'd be one of the top professors there. I've learned so much from you since joining. Thank you!

I want to add though that although Ma Long sets the example for an ideal path to long term accomplishment, it's still up to the individual and his/her physical and mental abilities to choose their learning path. What I mean is that Ma Long's path may not be the best path to long term development success for everyone, although his track record makes the strongest case for it. From personal witness, I have an older relative (mid 50s) that started only a year and a half ago with an instructor around 2500 rating at ICC. The instructor put together a training racquet made up of two black sheets of H3 neo provincial on a $20 Joola Carbon. Aside from changing out worn rubber once, his setup has remained the same, and he now has very solid basic strokes and forehand loops consistently enough to play well in league. I last played him early this week and mentioned to him that his rubber looks like it's been through the garbage disposal to which he replied that his instructor still thinks it's good. The point is that it may not be necessary for better development with an all wood blade.

Another example at a less personal level is Fan Zhendong. Unlike Ma Long, he's played mostly with a Viscaria through his later teen years. I don't know if it's Viscaria or Carbonado now, but he's still developing his game around a carbon blade.

 

[Vrael]

I think the important thing to remember is that blade has to lay great in hand. After trying a lot of blades last year I have realised that even blades like Timo Boll Spirit can feel much better than all wood 5 ply blades that have uncomfortable handles. For example I loved Innerforce ZLF, but I never got used to Liu Shiwen with very small FL handle.

I agree with Carl, but we need to remember that every player is different just like Jabugo said. Some players might need the feeling that they are doing great right now in this moment and that keeps them motivated to train even harder and harder and allows them to have more fun.

I think that OP could easly choose blades from Innerforce series. They might have some carbon, but still maintain the woody feeling. That little feeling that You might lose comparing them to all wood blades might not be so important if You have coach, because he will tell you when you are doing something wrong. you don't have to rely only on the feeling to teach yourself. If you didn't have coach then all wood blade would be better, but since You are already playing on high level and have a coach then I can't see anything bad in choosing any blade from innerforce series.

I don't know if it is good topic to ask that, but it might help OP. Anyone has any idea how innerforce layer zlf and alc-s might behave compared to each other ? I mean, zlf is of course focused on spin, but it seems alc-s will also be focused on spin. I read on butterfly.jp their description, but it seemed very simillar to each other

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Carl, if....

Another example at a less personal level is Fan Zhendong.

This is why I said:

In the end, it would be your choice.

And this:

Apolonia blade is great. It might. Be very good for you. If you are at a level where you have played some international matches it might be excellent for you.

But regardless of those statements, the question was why do I think the Acoustic could be better for him.

As far as I'm concerned he is probably at a level where he can use anything, at least based on his stated level. But that does not change the fact that, from a sub-cortical neural response standpoint, a wood blade would cause his technique to top out at a higher level.

It would have done that with FZD too which is scary to think about. And it would have done that with the older gent you referenced.

I know plenty of people who are trying to improve and are still in the early stages of developing technique who chose a blade like a Viscaria or a TB ALC and still develop quite well. So you can do it. But they would have developed even better and even faster with an basic, 5 ply, all wood blade.

Then you have to consider what you are playing for too. So, if it is about fun and the addiction to speed, which a good carbon blade can really get you hooked on, that really may be okay. I love blasting the ball from mid-distance with any number of carbon blades. Totally fun and it feels great in your hand.

But a carbon blade also causes you to not feel certain things that, if you felt them, it would help you refine your feel, touch and contact. With the right all wood blade those things would refine themselves on a Sub-Cortical level (on an unconscious level). You wouldn't even know those things were improving and they would improve because the feel and flex of the all wood, 5 ply blade would allow you to feel that much more.

Here is how that works: on a great composite blade like the Apolonia, good contact feels good. Bad contact feels almost as good as good contact because the carbon actually masks your minor and even, to a certain extent, your larger, mishits. So a mishit still feels good and the shot is still acceptably good.

With an all wood blade of the caliber of an Acoustic, good contact feels good and you are rewarded with a better shot. And not so good contact feels, not so good. Your brain picks up the difference because there is no carbon to fix those micro mistakes for you. So your brain and your nervous system, without you even realizing it or understanding it's happening, starts refining and improving your quality of contact and touch. Your bad contact, that feels bad and, yes, same thing, your brain and nervous system adjust and refine things without you even knowing. Personally, I think that is pretty cool.

Again, you don't need this. I know guys who got to pretty high levels, like 2600 USATT while using a carbon blade.

But the I interesting test would be to see what would happen if you could do the sliding doors, parallel development test and see the same player develop with carbon and without.

That would be cool to see 2 FZDs, one only carbon and one with with wood till 19.

Another interesting experiment is Abe Gold. He spent his first 2 years developing with a Viscaria and Tenergy/H3 and got from Zero to about USATT 1300 that way. Then Der_Echte gave him an all wood blade with more controllable rubbers, and his level very quickly shot up a lot more. I think he is now 1820. We all know it is easier to get from 0 to 1300 than it is to get from 1300-1800.

One more piece of info that is worth knowing: in 2006, 10 years ago, 8 of the players in the top 10 used all wood blades. Right now 1 of 10 top players use an all wood blade. But the guy who does, Xu Xin, is pretty awesome without the carbon. All this says is that, YOU DON'T need carbon to be a top player.

But when a player is really technically solid, it does not matter as much and they can really use anything. And, on some level, anyone can use anything. It's just that there are reasons an all wood blade is really worthwhile for anyone who wants to develop their technique a small amount faster.


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[UpSideDownCarl]

And just to make sure you guys know, the Apolonia blade is an IF ZLC which really is an excellent blade. And it really would be fine to use for many many people.

And the posts by Jabugo and Vrael are excellent posts. Of particular note is Vrael's comment about playing for having fun right now. That is worthwhile and I think that should have been covered in one of the perspectives/reasons a blade may be considered "better" for a person.

The concept of "better", in regards to a "blade that would be better for YOU," still actually needs a context.

Is the context, what will give you the fastest shots? Or, what will give the most spin? Or, what will give you the best balance between spin and speed? Or, what will help you to win the most games now, today? OR, what will ultimately help you develop to the highest level in the long run, say, 4-5 years down the line?

But I did not include it. And I should have included: what feels best to you? What do you have the most fun playing with?

However, for many people that would be this one:

"....what will help you to win the most games now, today?"

And yes, I was presenting the option of something that may not win a 14 year old as many games today. But would ultimately pay off in the long run.

And, ultimately, that is a decision that the OP needs to decide on.


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