New Butterfly Hadraw 5

[mikeytt]

Interesting, this is quite different from the first reviews online. I have ordered one straight handle hoping it could be a korbel less head heavy and more maneuverable, will see

To me it feels quite different to the korbel, not much vibration whereas korbel gives a lot of feedback. As mentioned it feels much harder almost like a carbon blade.Its definitely a lot lighter and less head heavy.

But these are just my first impressions, only used it for a couple of hours.

 

[mightymouse]

I have used the blade for a few hours now. It has a hard feel. Much harder than the korbel, I found the short game
quite tough due to the bouncy nature of the blade and struggled on serve recieve. Not saying that these are bad qualities, it just feels quite different to a Korbel.

Positives- Looping on both sides feels very nice, very crisp. I felt like I was playing with an outer carbon blade at times when I would play aggressive topspin’s. Strong high pitch sound on hard hits.

A blade that has construction such as limba - spruce - ayous - spruce - limba as in Dicon or Waldner Offensive 2016 (or koto - spruce - ayous - spruce- koto, as in Hadraw 5) has this distinct trampoline effect.

Limba outerply combined with spruce as intermediate ply has more trampoline effect compared to that of koto as outerply.

This will affect your short game (not that it's bad, you just need to adjust or adapt to it).

But this trampoline effect is very helpful when you loop from mid-distance. You have this kick upon the ball landing on the other side of the table. Therefore it feels good when you topspin aggressively.

 

[SDC]

@hipnotic: No problem at all.

And since you are a bat maker, I do have questions regarding "this type of blade" composition wise.

I hope you do not mind giving us the insights.

Here are my questions:

1. I notice that in the old day, Stiga Offensive Classic has composition of koto - spruce - ayous -spruce - koto, but later on Stiga changed it to limba - spruce - ayous - spruce - limba. Are there any good reasons why they use limba instead of koto later on? Is it a better combination with ayous and spruce?

I notice that Avalox P500 is a classic but they introduced Avalox BT555, which they said an improvement of P500. Is it true that limba outerply is better compared to koto for such compositions?

There are lots of other brands which have limba - spruce - ayous - spruce - limba blade also. But very few, who has that composition with koto outerply (I can only think of ITC Dynarc T5 and now Hadraw 5).

2. I notice that most limba - spruce - ayous - spruce - limba blades are in the range of 5.6 - 5.7 mm in thickness (Dicon, Avalox BT555, BTY Chuan Chih Yuan, Tibhar Drinkhall OC, etc). But lately, there are thicker blades around 5.9 - 6.0 mm (for example: Stiga Infinity vps and Hadraw 5).

What I feel when using this type of blades (let's say Dicon), they are rather stiff but springy. When you increase the thickness, it becomes stiffer but more springy. What do you think is the optimum thickness before you lost much control (because it becomes too springy)?

3. Dicon and BTY Chuan Chih Yuan have rather solid feel but Stiga OC and Infinity vps have rather hollow feel. However, their composition are the same. Is it because of the hollow handle of Stiga? Dicon has kind of hollow handle as well. I believe that BTY CCY also has hollow handle. What makes the blade felt solid or felt hollow?

I hope that I don't bother you with these questions. Thank you.

In this context, it's not about better or worse, it's different. Manufacturers come out with slightly different variations in order to cover more ground. Why they change the composition of a given model may have many causes, and mostly are concerned with business, and not necessarily how the blade plays.

The problem is that people call "Spruce" to every wood that has that distinct growth ring pattern, but in fact there are a lot of different woods that have it (I can be blamed of this too, for the sake of simplification to the general public... ). Pine, Fir, Spruce, for example, all have distinct look and within these you still have a vast number of sub species like Yellow Pine, Sugar Pine, Douglas Fir, White Fir, Sitka Spruce, Engelmann Spruce... All these woods can vary a lot in terms of characteristics (weight, hardness, stiffness), but still look relatively similar when you look at the endgrain on a medial ply of a blade. To add to that, you have differences in the individual thickness of the layers, as well different manufacturing processes, so saying that these compositions are all similar is a big mistake.

Your question about thickness doesn't have a direct answer, mostly because "too much" is too vague, what is too much for you might not be for others. On the other hand, where you increase the thickness will impact how the blade feels and performs. Is it in the core? Many of these blades already use thicker cores, especially Stiga, but having a thicker core with thinner outer plies, or with a big variation in density between plies, makes the blade feel hollow (and this is your answer for the hollow feel). You can also increase the thickness of the medial layer, and longitudinal stiffness will increase much less this way, but then you must be careful not to make the feeling too hard. This really only works with softer woods. Finally you have the top ply, you can increase the thickness here and it will have the biggest impact on stiffness, but the problem is that it will also have the biggest impact on weight.

 

[Fedex78]

So my ST Hadraw 5 arrived yesterday and was tested 2 hours yesterday. Weight 89gr, freq. 1356 - 1370 Hz.

The top layer is definetly Koto.

FH Dynaryz ZGX max used, much less sticky then new
BH Dynaryz ACC 2.0

This blade is great to play, less vibrations then Korbel, but still good feel for the ball. I didn't feel the stiffness mikeytt was talking about (but hey we are all different in tt), I've never felt so confident in playing the BH topspin. Also on FH lopping was very good, very controlled, and blocking was fantastic both sides. I could impart a lot of spin on my strokes, serves were made with high control and spin. Short game very good.

To my great surprise, the speed of Hadraw 5 is similar to my ST Korbel made in japan, maybe even a bit less.

The big con is the lack of power from FH, my usual opponents stressed this fact at the end of our usual friday match. Maybe my ZGX was too much used so I've assembled the FH with Donic A1 max in new conditions. Let's see how it will work.

In conclusion, a great all wood blade from Butterfly.

 

[lodro]

So my ST Hadraw 5 arrived yesterday and was tested 2 hours yesterday. Weight 89gr, freq. 1356 - 1370 Hz.

The top layer is definetly Koto.

FH Dynaryz ZGX max used, much less sticky then new
BH Dynaryz ACC 2.0

This blade is great to play, less vibrations then Korbel, but still good feel for the ball. I didn't feel the stiffness mikeytt was talking about (but hey we are all different in tt), I've never felt so confident in playing the BH topspin. Also on FH lopping was very good, very controlled, and blocking was fantastic both sides. I could impart a lot of spin on my strokes, serves were made with high control and spin. Short game very good.

To my great surprise, the speed of Hadraw 5 is similar to my ST Korbel made in japan, maybe even a bit less.

The big con is the lack of power from FH, my usual opponents stressed this fact at the end of our usual friday match. Maybe my ZGX was too much used so I've assembled the FH with Donic A1 max in new conditions. Let's see how it will work.

In conclusion, a great all wood blade from Butterfly.

You would help me avoid to buy one if you could confirm my suspicion that Hadraw 5 is a decent blade ..........but just another blade. 😁

 

[piligrim]

So my ST Hadraw 5 arrived yesterday and was tested 2 hours yesterday. Weight 89gr, freq. 1356 - 1370 Hz.

The top layer is definetly Koto.

FH Dynaryz ZGX max used, much less sticky then new
BH Dynaryz ACC 2.0

This blade is great to play, less vibrations then Korbel, but still good feel for the ball. I didn't feel the stiffness mikeytt was talking about (but hey we are all different in tt), I've never felt so confident in playing the BH topspin. Also on FH lopping was very good, very controlled, and blocking was fantastic both sides. I could impart a lot of spin on my strokes, serves were made with high control and spin. Short game very good.

To my great surprise, the speed of Hadraw 5 is similar to my ST Korbel made in japan, maybe even a bit less.

The big con is the lack of power from FH, my usual opponents stressed this fact at the end of our usual friday match. Maybe my ZGX was too much used so I've assembled the FH with Donic A1 max in new conditions. Let's see how it will work.

In conclusion, a great all wood blade from Butterfly.

How is handle? Thicker then Korbel?

 

[Fedex78]

You would help me avoid to buy one if you could confirm my suspicion that Hadraw 5 is a decent blade ..........but just another blade. 😁

I can confirm that, just another blade

 

[Fedex78]

How is handle? Thicker then Korbel?

As far as straight handle is concerned, hadraw handle is exactly the same as my korbel st made in japan

 

[JJ Ng]

In this context, it's not about better or worse, it's different. Manufacturers come out with slightly different variations in order to cover more ground. Why they change the composition of a given model may have many causes, and mostly are concerned with business, and not necessarily how the blade plays.

The problem is that people call "Spruce" to every wood that has that distinct growth ring pattern, but in fact there are a lot of different woods that have it (I can be blamed of this too, for the sake of simplification to the general public... ). Pine, Fir, Spruce, for example, all have distinct look and within these you still have a vast number of sub species like Yellow Pine, Sugar Pine, Douglas Fir, White Fir, Sitka Spruce, Engelmann Spruce... All these woods can vary a lot in terms of characteristics (weight, hardness, stiffness), but still look relatively similar when you look at the endgrain on a medial ply of a blade. To add to that, you have differences in the individual thickness of the layers, as well different manufacturing processes, so saying that these compositions are all similar is a big mistake.

Your question about thickness doesn't have a direct answer, mostly because "too much" is too vague, what is too much for you might not be for others. On the other hand, where you increase the thickness will impact how the blade feels and performs. Is it in the core? Many of these blades already use thicker cores, especially Stiga, but having a thicker core with thinner outer plies, or with a big variation in density between plies, makes the blade feel hollow (and this is your answer for the hollow feel). You can also increase the thickness of the medial layer, and longitudinal stiffness will increase much less this way, but then you must be careful not to make the feeling too hard. This really only works with softer woods. Finally you have the top ply, you can increase the thickness here and it will have the biggest impact on stiffness, but the problem is that it will also have the biggest impact on weight.

That is why I don't memorize the composition of any blades anymore. My hand will tell me if I like the blade or not.

 

[Chr75]

Could you tell me the measurements of the handle?

 

[Lazer]

Could you tell me the measurements of the handle?

Check the spec on BTY’ s homepage.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Kopp]

To my great surprise, the speed of Hadraw 5 is similar to my ST Korbel made in japan, maybe even a bit less.

BTY Petr Korbel is one of the best all-wood blades ever created. Once you have played with it, you can remember the feeling forever, even after you have changed to many blades.

 

[Fedex78]

BTY Petr Korbel is one of the best all-wood blades ever created. Once you have played with it, you can remember the feeling forever, even after you have changed to many blades.

Totally agree

 

[Pe-ter]

Could you tell me the measurements of the handle?

Hadraw:
FL: 100×25×34 mm
ST: 100×23×28 mm

Korbel:
FL: 100×24×34 mm
ST: 100×23×28 mm

Primorac:
FL: 100×25×34 mm

The handle is bit square shaped, compared to my previous YSE. YSE was more comfortable but Hadraw is the better blade for my needs.

 

[Larshos]

Hadraw:
FL: 100×25×34 mm
ST: 100×23×28 mm

Korbel:
FL: 100×24×34 mm
ST: 100×23×28 mm

Primorac:
FL: 100×25×34 mm

The handle is bit square shaped, compared to my previous YSE. YSE was more comfortable but Hadraw is the better blade for my needs.

The problem with these measurements is that the thickness (for FL handles) is (usually) given as the thickness at the base of the grip, and it's not uncommon for the handles' thickness to taper slightly towards the neck of the blade. which IMO is the more important dimension of the two.

Andro have a nice way of displaying this, I wish more manufacturers would do so too:

WIth that in mind, could anyone with a Hadraw 5 and a set of calipers measure the thickness at the thumb shelf?
I would be suprised if the thickness of the handle is 25 mm at the thumb shelf.

 

[Pe-ter]

The problem with these measurements is that the thickness (for FL handles) is (usually) given as the thickness at the base of the grip, and it's not uncommon for the handles' thickness to taper slightly towards the neck of the blade. which IMO is the more important dimension of the two.

Andro have a nice way of displaying this, I wish more manufacturers would do so too:
View attachment 34107

WIth that in mind, could anyone with a Hadraw 5 and a set of calipers measure the thickness at the thumb shelf?
I would be suprised if the thickness of the handle is 25 mm at the thumb shelf.

Will borrow the calipers from my FIL and get the measurements. 👍

 

[Pe-ter]

@Larshos, my apologies for the delay, had to buy the calipers. 🤷

Not sure if I understood correctly what I was supposed to measure, but here is something. If you want to know anything else, let me know.

Cheers

 

[h3llary]

@Larshos, my apologies for the delay, had to buy the calipers. 🤷

Not sure if I understood correctly what I was supposed to measure, but here is something. If you want to know anything else, let me know.

View attachment 34162

View attachment 34163


Cheers

do you feel like this blade has good feedback and vibrations?

 

[Larshos]

@Larshos, my apologies for the delay, had to buy the calipers. 🤷

Not sure if I understood correctly what I was supposed to measure, but here is something. If you want to know anything else, let me know.

View attachment 34162

View attachment 34163


Cheers

Thank you so much!!

I hope you didn't buy the calipers just for measuring the blade for me..? lol

 

[Pe-ter]

do you feel like this blade has good feedback and vibrations?

Well, kinda hard to judge as I'm a newbie, have only played the YSE before and somehow I do not feel much difference. Not that there is none, it's just my inablility to feel the feedback and vibrations. It's more stiff, fast but still comfortable and with good control (compared to YSE).

Thank you so much!!

I hope you didn't buy the calipers just for measuring the blade for me..? lol

Well, I did. 🤷
But now we have one at home at least.