No umpires in USATT tournaments

[Novarac23]

I think the Edgeball Tournament in Barrington, Illinois have referees if 1) You make it to quaterfinals, semifinals, and finals 2) You request one 3) You and your opponent fight over edge balls and serve faults (2 of my teammates in 2025 team tournament had referees for their matches as well as this Chinese team when I watched Division 1 due to hiding the ball and low toss). I think they just trust the players enough to be honest with their matches, but any other US players can give better answers for their states since Illinois doesn't have many tournaments like how California or other population table tennis states do.

This I can confirm, because I played an Edgeball tournament last year and is the only time where I had to call an umpire because the other guy was legit lying about the score. But as far as other states go, it’s pretty much the same, meaning when you have a problem you’d call an umpire and they show up to resolve the dispute. I currently live in Ohio and every tournament I played here had a USATT umpire on site and they would be the umpire for knockout stages of the tournament and resolving disputes (if there are multiple events obviously they can’t be at multiple spots so they’d pick one, usually open).

 

[NextLevel]

In the fourth highest league in Sweden and up there are often educated umpires. Edit: at least pretty often. Have to be a even higher umpire ”överdomare” for all the tables in all tournaments.

We don't play that much team league in the US, but there is always an Umpire (sometimes the same person as the Referee) at sanctioned tournaments available to look at specific issues.

I think the Edgeball Tournament in Barrington, Illinois have referees if 1) You make it to quaterfinals, semifinals, and finals 2) You request one 3) You and your opponent fight over edge balls and serve faults (2 of my teammates in 2025 team tournament had referees for their matches as well as this Chinese team when I watched Division 1 due to hiding the ball and low toss). I think they just trust the players enough to be honest with their matches, but any other US players can give better answers for their states since Illinois doesn't have many tournaments like how California or other population table tennis states do.

So "referee" is usually the person who runs the tournament, while "umpire" runs the match and "assistant umpire" also helps to run the match. At larger sanctioned tournaments meeting a particular star rating (4-star or 5-star), matches beyond a certain round always get umpired and they are required to have a certain level of umpire presence at the desk in case someone requests one, much more than what you would get in a one-star or two-star local tournament. The referee overseeing the 4 or 5 star event also has a higher certification than the one you would see at most local club tournaments.

It's largely a different setup from what you get in the European leagues.

 

[vvk1]

I watch a lot of table tennis, I cannot remember a single instance of a match I watched having the scorekeeper actually make a call on the legality of the service. Very often, the scorekeepers often forget the score and need to be corrected by the players. They are also often members of at least one league team or in the same group as the other players and therefore are not completely impartial to the result. Maybe @vvk1 who has a good channel can present some examples of umpiring by scorekeepers?

I play in the US So I am biased. But I am just trying to make sure that these statements have context. Usually, in the US, you can get a certified umpire on demand if your match needs it. But it is not as big a deal not to have a scorekeeper/uncertified umpire as someone who is used to having a scorekeeper might think it is.

I don't recall off the top of my head which videos on my YT channel have umpire calls re service legality or players correcting the score because umpires have forgotten it or started daydreaming, etc. They definitely exist, even with me on the receiving end

Umpire calls regarding service legality do happen - last time it happened to me, for example, was because I had inadvertently served over the table. They are definitely more frequent in tournaments than in local league team matches. The stakes are lower in the latter, far fewer people do it intentionally to gain an advantage, people just want to have a good time, etc. On the very rare occasions when it does happen in local league matches, it tends to happen during a break between sets via a quiet word with the player, when the passions are lower than in the heat of the match and it seems to work and does not cause much of a controversy.

The latter - score correction - happens all the time though, in both league and tournament matches and has never been a particular point of contention in my experience.

 

[NextLevel]

I don't recall off the top of my head which videos on my YT channel have umpire calls re service legality or players correcting the score because umpires have forgotten it or started daydreaming, etc. They definitely exist, even with me on the receiving end

Umpire calls regarding service legality do happen - last time it happened to me, for example, was because I had inadvertently served over the table. They are definitely more frequently in tournaments than in local league team matches. The stakes are lower in the latter, far fewer people do it intentionally to gain an advantage, people just want to have a good time, etc. On the very rare occasions when it does happen in local league matches, it tends to happen during a break between sets via a quiet word with the player, when the passions are lower than in the heat of the match and it seems to work and does not cause much of a controversy.

The latter - score correction - happens all the time though, in both league and tournament matches and has never been a particular point of contention in my experience.

Thanks. I think it is becoming clearer that @Sp8e00 is someone who dislikes the responsibility and work of keeping the match score verbally as well as the potential for disagreement, which is entirely justifiable.

 

[Sp8e00]

Thanks. I think it is becoming clearer that @Sp8e00 is someone who dislikes the responsibility and work of keeping the match score verbally as well as the potential for disagreement, which is entirely justifiable.

It’s not that I don’t like it, I just don’t see why the US can be more like the UK in terms of having a scorer every match. Makes matches feel more official. Less pressure on the impending nature of the score and its formal. Makes no sense imo but there’s many things to give credit to US tournaments for so it’s is a minor issue I have

 

[NextLevel]

It’s not that I don’t like it, I just don’t see why the US can be more like the UK in terms of having a scorer every match. Makes matches feel more official. Less pressure on the impending nature of the score and its formal. Makes no sense imo but there’s many things to give credit to US tournaments for so it’s is a minor issue I have

It also commits a person to sitting down for 15-30 minutes when they could be doing something better with their time. Also requires an inventory of scoreboards etc. which will not make sense for most non-dedicated venues. So it is a benefit and cost consideration. We agree it is minor issue.

 

[OvrChkn]

From all of the tournaments I've been to in the US, there's typically a floating umpire. I've seen umpires just come out of a void in space and time and rule on issues in the match, but normally if there's a big dispute, you can call one over and they will watch over the rest of the match. They will run the scoreboard if requested.

Clubs can be varying sizes, and unless a big volunteering effort happens, most people would rather be playing or watching matches vs running the scoreboard. I've seen recently that coaches will use an app to keep track of scores, but if there's 16 matches going on at once, then that can get a bit cumbersome. Maybe having a small, cheap digital scoreboard that players can use might be a cool feature for tournaments.

It is an issue, especially if people travel hours to come to a tournament, but in my experience, most people are cool about the rules or fixing themselves if there's issues.

 

[Metaxa]

I have played in tournaments and leagues in my home country for years, at both regional and national level. At tournaments, a volunteer is sought or appointed from among all the participants for the first round. After that, the losing side acts as scorekeepers or umpires (without any official authority). Of course, there are chief referees and their assistants. At very large tournaments featuring top players, official national referees are appointed for each match.
In league play, each team consists of four players, so 16 matches are played each week. (The total must therefore always be 16). You therefore act as a scorekeeper/referee twice per match day (for both the home and away teams).
I always enjoy being a scorekeeper/referee with a scoreboard (manual or electronic). I will always try to fulfil that role as an official referee (even if I am not one). One of the things I always do is announce the score and adjust it to reflect the server (so 1-3 becomes 3-1 when the serve changes, etc.). This makes it easier for both the players and yourself to keep track of the score correctly. It’s also a matter of showing respect for your teammate’s match and their opponent.

 

[Lula]

Before VAR the service rule was impossible and hard to follow for the umpires. Not a fair rule for them. Can not have a rule that is hard to follow. Difficult to sit on that side and see how the serve is hit. Now they can atleast fault serves and get some help from the pictures. Still hard, if they take a serve everyone complain so much. And at lower levels it is not realistic, then we almost have to start at 10-10 because almost everyones serve is wrong. In my opinion it would be better to let everyone serve as they want.

 

[Sp8e00]

Before VAR the service rule was impossible and hard to follow for the umpires. Not a fair rule for them. Can not have a rule that is hard to follow. Difficult to sit on that side and see how the serve is hit. Now they can atleast fault serves and get some help from the pictures. Still hard, if they take a serve everyone complain so much. And at lower levels it is not realistic, then we almost have to start at 10-10 because almost everyone’s serve is wrong. In my opinion it would be better to let everyone serve as they want.

I’m not sure about that, any racket sport where serves win matches similar to tennis aren’t great to watch. As soon as someone develops an incredible serve that either isn’t returnable or pops up a 3rd ball, then it’s suddenly not a spectators sport. I understand that Felix and stuff are similar to this but taking service win from 60% to 80% would not make me happy

 

[Der_Echte]

In the fourth highest league in Sweden and up there are often educated umpires. Edit: at least pretty often. Have to be a even higher umpire ”överdomare” for all the tables in all tournaments.

LLLLUUUUULLLAAAA !!! FTW.

 

[ttloveit]

I have played in a lot of tournaments in the UK and USA and umpiring your own games in the US is the big difference. In my opinion it is better to have the umpire , a neutral person , all the time as we do in UK . 99% of the time it is fine , tt players the world over are generally great , sporting people . You can have small issues without an umpire - some people will call a let for a ball bouncing in the distance in a point they are 99% losing . Also occasionally both of you are not sure of the score , an umpire with a board in front of him can sort that out .
It is a cultural thing though , good luck with changing the culture of another country .