Outer ALC users, why do you like your blade?

[Michael Zhuang]

I'm trying to enjoy and play with my outer alc blade, but I just can't seem to play well with it.

Whenever I loop, I feel lack of control and lack of dwell time. I feel my loops are a little wild compared to when I use inner alc blade.

Why do you like your outer alc blade and why do you prefer it over inner style?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

What a coincidence, two days ago, after my usual TT session, my TT mates and I went to a bistro and had our usual drinks and snacks post game. The topic of outer ALC just happen to pop-up b'coz one of their kids just got a Viscaria ALC and we were talking about it.

One of us, who is also a part time coach said something about outer ALC and it is along something like this:

"Outer ALC, where the carbon layer is nearer to the contact point, makes the contact surface stiffer and hence the contact time is less. The feeling you get is a bouncier & livelier feel. Another word; the feeling of trampoline or explosiveness is enhanced. The outcome is that the ball is fast & furious."

He continued, " Kids & youth player or generally the athletics type would love playing with such a feeling and they are the most likely demographics that will choose such product "

 

[lodro]

What a coincidence, two days ago, after my usual TT session, my TT mates and I went to a bistro and had our usual drinks and snacks post game. The topic of outer ALC just happen to pop-up b'coz one of their kids just got a Viscaria ALC and we were talking about it.

One of us, who is also a part time coach said something about outer ALC and it is along something like this:

"Outer ALC, where the carbon layer is nearer to the contact point, makes the contact surface stiffer and hence the contact time is less. The feeling you get is a bouncier & livelier feel. Another word; the feeling of trampoline or explosiveness is enhanced. The outcome is that the ball is fast & furious."

He continued, " Kids & youth player or generally the athletics type would love playing with such a feeling and they are the most likely demographics that will choose such product "

He continued, " Kids & youth player or generally the athletics type would love playing with such a feeling and they are the most likely demographics that will choose such product "

He forgot to add : " And everybody else will be better off with inner ALC and inner ZLC 😁

 

[mihalichtheone]

Also, kids don't really care what to play with. There's no analysis, so they just train and improve with whatever blade coach advises.

I personally don't like outer ALC blades, because there's little flex and feeling is really dull and boring. I also, probably, will perform better with such blades (Viscaria, Yinhe Pro 01,etc). The thing is - I don't like it, my inner soul just rejects outer ALC blades for some reson. HL5/H301, on the other hand...flex gives me ability to perform killshots and be very confident that the ball will land on the table.

 

[Wrighty67]

I like both types of blade but in answer to the OP, what I like about an outer blade is the crispness and linearity. I don’t find my outer blades to be particularly fast or bouncy but I enjoy knowing what to expect from them regardless of stroke type. For shots like topspin or block, the linearity is a real positive that I don’t get with my inner blades. The feeling of ball on bat is more direct.

I like the increased feel and dwell on my inner blades, and I also like the slower touch in my short game, so for me it’s a trade off as to which I ultimately prefer..

 

[dingyibvs]

I like both types of blade but in answer to the OP, what I like about an outer blade is the crispness and linearity. I don’t find my outer blades to be particularly fast or bouncy but I enjoy knowing what to expect from them regardless of stroke type. For shots like topspin or block, the linearity is a real positive that I don’t get with my inner blades. The feeling of ball on bat is more direct.

I like the increased feel and dwell on my inner blades, and I also like the slower touch in my short game, so for me it’s a trade off as to which I ultimately prefer..

I feel exactly the same. I love the linearity on the BH side with outer fiber blades, but love the dwell on the FH side and the touch of outer fiber blades. I'm looking to move from the YSE to a composite blade soon as I complete my basic trainings. ​​I can't seem to decide which one to pick as I try to pick between the Viscaria and the HL5. I'm pretty settled on the D09C on the FH side, which works really well with the HL5 as the dwell allows me to use a more direct stroke which penetrates the hard sponge more. Perhaps I'll try the D05 or D09C on the BH side as well. Right now I have the T05FX on the BH side which plays extremely well with the Viscaria but feels too mushy and non-linear on the HL5 and the YSE.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

What do you mean by linearity and why is this good for BH?

When I use outer ALC, I often feel like my backhand drives fall into the net. I feel like I'm not getting enough arc on the ball.

 

[Wrighty67]

I feel exactly the same. I love the linearity on the BH side with outer fiber blades, but love the dwell on the FH side and the touch of outer fiber blades. I'm looking to move from the YSE to a composite blade soon as I complete my basic trainings. ​​I can't seem to decide which one to pick as I try to pick between the Viscaria and the HL5. I'm pretty settled on the D09C on the FH side, which works really well with the HL5 as the dwell allows me to use a more direct stroke which penetrates the hard sponge more. Perhaps I'll try the D05 or D09C on the BH side as well. Right now I have the T05FX on the BH side which plays extremely well with the Viscaria but feels too mushy and non-linear on the HL5 and the YSE.

I also have a Viscaria and FZD outer and two HL5 which I use.

I like a harder FH rubber like 09c or K3 on FH but then like either Rakza 7 or Hurricane 8-80 on BH on the HL5’s whereas I like T05FX on BH of Viscaria - agree 100% it feels mushy on HL5. I have played D05 on BH and like that too but it’s a touch hard for my standard right now.

 

[Lazer]

What do you mean by linearity and why is this good for BH?

When I use outer ALC, I often feel like my backhand drives fall into the net. I feel like I'm not getting enough arc on the ball.

He means the innerforce effect, like all wood on soft hits, like carbon on hard hits and everything in between

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Wrighty67]

He means the innerforce effect, like all wood on soft hits, like carbon on hard hits and everything in between

Cheers
L-zr

Actually I was referring to the outer type blade and by linearity I meant that the blade tends to feel the same regardless of the type of shot, and is therefore linear in its response. An inner type blade tends to be slower when playing short and faster when hitting hard - so non linear.

 

[Lazer]

Actually I was referring to the outer type blade and by linearity I meant that the blade tends to feel the same regardless of the type of shot, and is therefore linear in its response. An inner type blade tends to be slower when playing short and faster when hitting hard - so non linear.

That’s exactly what I said but in reality linearity is much much more than inner or outer.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[dingyibvs]

What do you mean by linearity and why is this good for BH?

When I use outer ALC, I often feel like my backhand drives fall into the net. I feel like I'm not getting enough arc on the ball.

Linearity means when you put in 2x power the ball is 2x as powerful. Compared to an inner fiber blade which can get a ball that's 3x power when you put in 2x power. For example, the power you can generate from a linear blade may be 4-8 on a random scale but on an inner fiber blade it's 2-10. If you play like me, who can generate a lot of power on the FH side but not so much on the BH side, then you can make use of the extra gears on the FH, but shots will always be too slow on the BH.

What often comes with the linearity of outer fiber blades, which is a relative lack of dwell time, is also important. Low dwell is useful in the quick counter game, but when you're power looping, the lack of dwell will force you to either brush more or loop with less power or you'll lose consistency. That's what makes the HL5 such a good looping blade, as it's also got a rather flexy core, so you can really generate a ton of power when looping hard. But when you don't, like in blocks or quick counters, the shot is uninspiring and even more importantly, at least for me, difficult to control.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Linearity means when you put in 2x power the ball is 2x as powerful. Compared to an inner fiber blade which can get a ball that's 3x power when you put in 2x power. For example, the power you can generate from a linear blade may be 4-8 on a random scale but on an inner fiber blade it's 2-10. If you play like me, who can generate a lot of power on the FH side but not so much on the BH side, then you can make use of the extra gears on the FH, but shots will always be too slow on the BH.

What often comes with the linearity of outer fiber blades, which is a relative lack of dwell time, is also important. Low dwell is useful in the quick counter game, but when you're power looping, the lack of dwell will force you to either brush more or loop with less power or you'll lose consistency. That's what makes the HL5 such a good looping blade, as it's also got a rather flexy core, so you can really generate a ton of power when looping hard. But when you don't, like in blocks or quick counters, the shot is uninspiring and even more importantly, at least for me, difficult to control.

But so far most of the comments seem to be about why inner style is better.

So what do users of outer like about outer? I can't seem to find too much to like about it, but obviously even top players like FZD and ZJK like the outer style.

 

[dingyibvs]

That’s exactly what I but in reality linearity is much much more than inner or outer.

Cheers
L-zr

Yes, inner and outer fiber is just one part of it, the flex of the entire blade is another big part. A blade like Viscaria is both outer fiber and relatively rigid compared to the HL5 which is both inner fiber and flexible, thus making the contrast more stark.

I tend to think of inner fiber as lowering the lower end limit of how a softer shot is, while the flex of the blade raises the ceiling of how powerful a loop can be while still consistently landing on the table.

 

[Michael Zhuang]

Yes, inner and outer fiber is just one part of it, the flex of the entire blade is another big part. A blade like Viscaria is both outer fiber and relatively rigid compared to the HL5 which is both inner fiber and flexible, thus making the contrast more stark.

I tend to think of inner fiber as lowering the lower end limit of how a softer shot is, while the flex of the blade raises the ceiling of how powerful a loop can be while still consistently landing on the table.

I'm not even thinking that complicated, for me I just experience 2 problems with outer.

1) I feel the throw angle is too low on my BH, and I often hit the ball into the net. I think I tend to hold a more extreme continental grip

2) I feel lack of hold on the ball with the FH opening loop. I never am sure if my ball is going into the net or going long, somehow the window or margin of error feels extremely small to me

 

[lodro]

Yes, inner and outer fiber is just one part of it, the flex of the entire blade is another big part. A blade like Viscaria is both outer fiber and relatively rigid compared to the HL5 which is both inner fiber and flexible, thus making the contrast more stark.

I tend to think of inner fiber as lowering the lower end limit of how a softer shot is, while the flex of the blade raises the ceiling of how powerful a loop can be while still consistently landing on the table.

Now i am wondering if you are actually making " a case " for those fancy hybrid blades that have two different laminates on either side.
For example linear on the FH and not linear on the BH 😀

 

[Lazer]

Yes, inner and outer fiber is just one part of it, the flex of the entire blade is another big part. A blade like Viscaria is both outer fiber and relatively rigid compared to the HL5 which is both inner fiber and flexible, thus making the contrast more stark.

I tend to think of inner fiber as lowering the lower end limit of how a softer shot is, while the flex of the blade raises the ceiling of how powerful a loop can be while still consistently landing on the table.

Considering everything else is the same, the layer thickness is so small so the position can contribute a minimal amount, the flex is virtually the same.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[dingyibvs]

Now i am wondering if you are actually making " a case " for those fancy hybrid blades that have two different laminates on either side.
For example linear on the FH and not linear on the BH 😀

I've actually been looking into getting a Yinhe Pro 12S, but can't find it anywhere. I might get a Pro 13S to try it out since that's available on Ali express. The 12 has limba outer on the inner fiber side, while the 13 has koto as the outer on both sides, so I was thinking the 12 may be a more extreme example.

With that said, I don't have very high hopes for them as the blade flexes as a whole, so the difference will be limited to the inner vs outer fiber difference.

 

[Wrighty67]

But so far most of the comments seem to be about why inner style is better.

So what do users of outer like about outer? I can't seem to find too much to like about it, but obviously even top players like FZD and ZJK like the outer style.

I think you’re misunderstanding - linearity is a function of outer blades and is considered a plus.

 

[Wrighty67]

I'm not even thinking that complicated, for me I just experience 2 problems with outer.

1) I feel the throw angle is too low on my BH, and I often hit the ball into the net. I think I tend to hold a more extreme continental grip

2) I feel lack of hold on the ball with the FH opening loop. I never am sure if my ball is going into the net or going long, somehow the window or margin of error feels extremely small to me

That’s a technique issue, not a function of the blade.