Serve tactics

[matti77]

Hello all,

It doesn't help to serve a mega-spinny serve if you're not ready to handle the spin you get back, right? I realized that now and have started to serve less/no spin serves more often which gives me more predictable returns to attack, I understand that everything is dependent on the opponent's ability, but I want to ask you:

1)What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, short?

2) What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, long?

In general, what are your general tactic when you're serving?

 

[brokenball]

Above all, keep it low and vary the serve. If I find a weak spot I will come back to it a little more. I have a pretty nasty backspin serve but it is use it too much the opponent will catch on. My practice partners are use to my serves but I can still catch them off guard by varying them.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Hello all,

It doesn't help to serve a mega-spinny serve if you're not ready to handle the spin you get back, right? I realized that now and have started to serve less/no spin serves more often which gives me more predictable returns to attack, I understand that everything is dependent on the opponent's ability, but I want to ask you:

1)What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, short?

2) What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, long?

In general, what are your general tactic when you're serving?

Generally I have 4 spin variation per serve:

1. Maximum backspin - aim to win the point right away (opponent pushes it into the net/fail to open up).

2. Moderate backspin - prevent my opponent to flick; I will then open up and start attacking first.

3. Light backspin/float - tempt my opponent to flick it, but I'd be ready to counter-attack their flick.

4. (Slight) topspin - trick my opponent to pop it up for easy attack, or surprise them (long).

In the first game, I will at least do 1 and 4 once each to see if my opponent can handle it. If they can't, then these two will give you lots of easy point.

Against better players, I will try to see if 3 works well enough. At my level, few players can flick consistently with quality, nor they can short push a floaty ball. This gives me easy chance to attack.

Against even better players, I can't afford to let them attack first. I will then mostly use 2 to keep them from attacking.

Against even better players, I have to gamble, and I will use more 1 and 4 again.

 

[t.t.s.t.a.r]

When i do a short heavy spin pendulum serve i expect it to be either flicked or pushed, this means that with either outcome i can attack and push my opponent backwards.
With a long fast heavy spin pendulum i expect my opponent to either backhand loop or to push, if they push i can loop it back either to win or to get into a rally with a good set up for me to win, if they top spin the serve i can either power loop which has a lower chance of getting on or i can rally it and push the opponent back giving me an excellent position to put the ball where they cannot get it.
Alternatively i can do long and slow pendulum to wide backhand for similar effect but it gives me more time to react.
I hope you find this helpful.

Thanks,
Star

 

[Jslick89]

With my serves....i'm trying to find weaknesses in my opponent's game. Best way to do this is to have a variety of serves in which you can be deceptive with the serve (IE, the same wind up, but one time it's back spin and the other time its top spin)

Once i've pinpointed where they are struggling with the most, i will try to exploit that serve until they can adjust. of course, you always have to keep them honest but mixing up the serve, but really don't be afraid to do the same serve twice, with a slightly different location placement.

to answer your specific questions:

1) with a heavy backspin short serve... i'm trying to get them to hit it into the net because it has so much spin. if they get it over the net, then i'm hoping its slow enough for me to step in and attack their weak return. like i said earlier, the variation is what makes any serve effective. if i keep hitting an opponent with a heavy backspin and they net it a couple times, their adjustment will be to adjust their paddle back even further. at this point, i can do a deceptive serve that looks like it would be heavy backspin but really it's top spin or dead, and then BOOM, easy smash kill on my third ball attack.

2) with long serves... i'm trying to get into the rally faster. it's easier for an opponent to loop a long serve so when I do this, my ready stance after the serve is half a step back further than if i were to serve short. this is in anticipation of the faster return from my opponent. I really try to aim these long fast serves into my opponents elbow. immobile opponents will really struggle with shots into their elbow as they simply cant move their feet well enough to make the needed adjustment to the serve. There's plenty of experienced players at my club who are great with their backhand and forehand, but they have no footwork. I serve into their elbow (with variation) and get a lot of easy points.

 

[blahness]

I'm inspired by He Zhi Wen so placement is more important for me. I serve mostly wide short serves to the BH short and follow it up with quick sidespin pushes to the wide FH, or if they let me (even better) loops to the wide FH. The other direction - FH short corner then place it to wide BH also works really well, alternating with also wide FH and middle for variations.

For spin I just kinda vary between the six different spins I have (hook sidetopspin, sideunderspin, no spin, heavy underspin, pendulum sidetopspin, sideunderspin)

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is worth thinking of the serves as a pair. If you pair the first and second serve in a good sequence you can use the first serve in your set of two serves (in a match) to set up your second.

Something that works pretty well is one serve heavy and the next serve light or dead. If you can do this with the same motion so the service motion looks the same, you will get a lot of nice third balls to attack.

Dead then heavy can be a good combination as well.

A lot of how you serve in a match should also be about reading your opponent and trying to use the serve to setup yourself up to take over the point.

I know some people who like serving topspin so the opponent starts with an opening that they can T Off on to take over the point. If I can get my opponent to push, I am usually happier. But it really depends on what you like and how you play.

It is worth exploring all the zones you can serve to intelligently for placement of serves as well:
1) Short BH
2) Short Middle
3) Short FH
4) Half Long BH
5) Half Long Middle
6) Half Long FH
7) Long BH
8) Long Middle
9) Long FH

-Short: should bounce on the table 2x
-Half Long: should have the second bounce either at the edge or just past so the person has to decide to respond as if it is over the table or long, sometimes Half Long also gets called HAND BREAKER LENGTH
-Long: should be fast, should bounce near your end line and your opponent's end line. If it is more than 30cm (12 inches) short of the white line that is an easy ball to make a strong return on.

If you are using the table like this for placement, and you are varying the spin between lighter and heavier, you will get a lot of easy third balls to take over the point with.

Backspin, topspin, sidespin, side/back, side/top, corkscrew.....these are nice. But if all you can do is serve backspin and vary between heavy, less heavy and almost dead, that will really give a lot of players a lot of trouble and you will get good third balls to open up on.

Also, for sidespin variations, often when players who are not at a decent level serve sidespin, the returns they get from that will often confuse them and cause them to loose the point because they don't yet know how to compensate for the sidespin you will most likely get back.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Also, it is fine to use the serve however you want. But if you learn how to use the serve to set you up for your third ball so you can take over the rally, rather than trying to win the point outright with the serve, you will develop a lot better strategic skills in table tennis.

If you do this well, and learn how to set up your second serve with your first serve in the two serve sequence, you may also learn how to get easy free points off your serve by the sequence rather than as a result of some amazing serve with wild amounts of spin. The degree of difference in spin from one serve to the next, while showing the same serve motion, can really give you some nice setups and easy points.

 

[ricospin]

It is worth thinking of the serves as a pair. If you pair the first and second serve in a good sequence you can use the first serve in your set of two serves (in a match) to set up your second.

Something that works pretty well is one serve heavy and the next serve light or dead. If you can do this with the same motion so the service motion looks the same, you will get a lot of nice third balls to attack.

Dead then heavy can be a good combination as well.

A lot of how you serve in a match should also be about reading your opponent and trying to use the serve to setup yourself up to take over the point.

I know some people who like serving topspin so the opponent starts with an opening that they can T Off on to take over the point. If I can get my opponent to push, I am usually happier. But it really depends on what you like and how you play.

It is worth exploring all the zones you can serve to intelligently for placement of serves as well:
1) Short BH
2) Short Middle
3) Short FH
4) Half Long BH
5) Half Long Middle
6) Half Long FH
7) Long BH
8) Long Middle
9) Long FH

-Short: should bounce on the table 2x
-Half Long: should have the second bounce either at the edge or just past so the person has to decide to respond as if it is over the table or long, sometimes Half Long also gets called HAND BREAKER LENGTH
-Long: should be fast, should bounce near your end line and your opponent's end line. If it is more than 30cm (12 inches) short of the white line that is an easy ball to make a strong return on.

If you are using the table like this for placement, and you are varying the spin between lighter and heavier, you will get a lot of easy third balls to take over the point with.

Backspin, topspin, sidespin, side/back, side/top, corkscrew.....these are nice. But if all you can do is serve backspin and vary between heavy, less heavy and almost dead, that will really give a lot of players a lot of trouble and you will get good third balls to open up on.

Also, for sidespin variations, often when players who are not at a decent level serve sidespin, the returns they get from that will often confuse them and cause them to loose the point because they don't yet know how to compensate for the sidespin you will most likely get back.

Wow great points here Carl!

I wanna say that watching pros has allowed me to steal some serve ideas.

One of the most genius ones I’ve noticed is from Xu Xin.

He serves a respectable underspin serve (half long, short) (one that you have to push) to the opponents paddle. The Opponent will push instinctively. He then is able to loop kill the ball without sacrificing the pivot.

What I mean by this is that the opponents racket is usually near the center line hence, he doesn’t sacrifice as much of the table as you’d expect.

I’ll share other ones at another time

 

[Dominikk85]

Hello all,

It doesn't help to serve a mega-spinny serve if you're not ready to handle the spin you get back, right? I realized that now and have started to serve less/no spin serves more often which gives me more predictable returns to attack, I understand that everything is dependent on the opponent's ability, but I want to ask you:

1)What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, short?

2) What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, long?

In general, what are your general tactic when you're serving?

I think at higher levels that definitely is important.at lower levels you can hope for a Service winner or a Popped up return that you can easily smash but at higher levels I think you have to expect a high quality return and it helps to be able to predict which serves likely will lead to which return.

I'm definitely not at that level though, I just try to make a decent quality serve and see what happens but at high levels that is different

 

[Choosikick]

Hello all,

It doesn't help to serve a mega-spinny serve if you're not ready to handle the spin you get back, right? I realized that now and have started to serve less/no spin serves more often which gives me more predictable returns to attack, I understand that everything is dependent on the opponent's ability, but I want to ask you:

1)What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, short?

2) What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, long?

In general, what are your general tactic when you're serving?

Hey Matti!
The first option is to prevent the opponent from attacking quickly, because at the amateur level, few players are ready to make a banana over the table in the style of Lin Yong Ju to start first. Well, then look at what kind of ball the opponent will send, whether he knows how to shorten it or give a strong reverse rotation, or simply throw it under attack. In general, this is a basic serving option that suits any opponent.
According to the second option - to allow the opponent to start, but not quickly, in order to counterattack this ball himself. The second option works better after a long and tiring game for the opponent.

 

[Choosikick]

It is worth thinking of the serves as a pair. If you pair the first and second serve in a good sequence you can use the first serve in your set of two serves (in a match) to set up your second.

Something that works pretty well is one serve heavy and the next serve light or dead. If you can do this with the same motion so the service motion looks the same, you will get a lot of nice third balls to attack.

Dead then heavy can be a good combination as well.

A lot of how you serve in a match should also be about reading your opponent and trying to use the serve to setup yourself up to take over the point.

I know some people who like serving topspin so the opponent starts with an opening that they can T Off on to take over the point. If I can get my opponent to push, I am usually happier. But it really depends on what you like and how you play.

It is worth exploring all the zones you can serve to intelligently for placement of serves as well:
1) Short BH
2) Short Middle
3) Short FH
4) Half Long BH
5) Half Long Middle
6) Half Long FH
7) Long BH
8) Long Middle
9) Long FH

-Short: should bounce on the table 2x
-Half Long: should have the second bounce either at the edge or just past so the person has to decide to respond as if it is over the table or long, sometimes Half Long also gets called HAND BREAKER LENGTH
-Long: should be fast, should bounce near your end line and your opponent's end line. If it is more than 30cm (12 inches) short of the white line that is an easy ball to make a strong return on.

If you are using the table like this for placement, and you are varying the spin between lighter and heavier, you will get a lot of easy third balls to take over the point with.

Backspin, topspin, sidespin, side/back, side/top, corkscrew.....these are nice. But if all you can do is serve backspin and vary between heavy, less heavy and almost dead, that will really give a lot of players a lot of trouble and you will get good third balls to open up on.

Also, for sidespin variations, often when players who are not at a decent level serve sidespin, the returns they get from that will often confuse them and cause them to loose the point because they don't yet know how to compensate for the sidespin you will most likely get back.

Carl, have you thought about writing a book about table tennis? I think it will be in demand. Just an incredible wealth of knowledge! I want to print your post and take it with me to practice.

 

[matti77]

So much wisdom on this forum. Thank you all! The serve (and return) may be the most important stroke in tt. Many Youtube-clips show you how to serve fancy serves, but rarely do you find info about the purpose of different serves. Again, many thanks!

I bought this outdoor table for the kids last summer which they used... three times 🙄. Dad will abuse the table for serve training as soon as the spring arrives. If it ever does.

 

[Brs]

Hello all,

It doesn't help to serve a mega-spinny serve if you're not ready to handle the spin you get back, right? I realized that now and have started to serve less/no spin serves more often which gives me more predictable returns to attack, I understand that everything is dependent on the opponent's ability, but I want to ask you:

1)What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, short?

2) What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, long?

In general, what are your general tactic when you're serving?

I use those two serves a lot, and both are intended to put my opponent out of position, and if possible off-balance.

Long side-back I will serve either very wide off the fh side of a lefty, or off the bh sideline vs penholders (who I play more than 50% against), or into the pocket of shakehanders. I am hoping for a push to the middle of the table which I can safely fh open across to their (righty fh) (lefty bh) corner. Then never let them get their feet stable in the rally again.

Short side-back I serve to the fh side (righty or lefty). That is just to draw them out over the table and play a short fh - deep bh pattern. People who know how to receive that serve with a short touch to the side of the ball and give me back a short, low, dead ball to my fh take it out of my game very quick. But most rightys are in love with their own bh flick and play long topspins across to my fh which is often easy to counter since the flick quality isn't super high.

 

[NDH]

Hello all,

It doesn't help to serve a mega-spinny serve if you're not ready to handle the spin you get back, right? I realized that now and have started to serve less/no spin serves more often which gives me more predictable returns to attack, I understand that everything is dependent on the opponent's ability, but I want to ask you:

1)What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, short?

2) What do you want to accomplish when you're serving a heavy pendulum serve with side/backspin, long?

In general, what are your general tactic when you're serving?

This is such a massive topic, I'm not sure 1 post could ever do it justice.

One thing I wanted to share, which people may disagree with is teaching good serves to juniors.

I have no idea if I did the right thing or not (I sometimes question myself), but I didn't teach my son good serves at all. With the intention of making sure he learnt how to play the game, without relying on his serves.

There are people (at all ability levels), who's serves are MUCH better than the rest of their game.

And yeah, they tend to win matches that you think they should lose, with their serve being the main factor in them winning.

At the lower end of the scale, it's not that hard to achieve.

1 or 2 really spinny serves will probably win you the point outright 80% of the time.

However, as you mentioned in your original post.... Once that ball comes back, they don't have the ability to deal with it.

Back to my son (and juniors in general), I didn't want him to simply rely on a good serve every time he needed points - I thought he would go to it too often and neglect other parts of his game.

In hindsight, if I thought he would use it sparingly (only when he really needed to), I would have taught him a few good serves, just to boost his confidence in a tight spot.

Not the answer you were looking for, but something to think about 😀

 

[hclnnkhg]

This is such a massive topic, I'm not sure 1 post could ever do it justice.

One thing I wanted to share, which people may disagree with is teaching good serves to juniors.

I have no idea if I did the right thing or not (I sometimes question myself), but I didn't teach my son good serves at all. With the intention of making sure he learnt how to play the game, without relying on his serves.

There are people (at all ability levels), who's serves are MUCH better than the rest of their game.

And yeah, they tend to win matches that you think they should lose, with their serve being the main factor in them winning.

At the lower end of the scale, it's not that hard to achieve.

1 or 2 really spinny serves will probably win you the point outright 80% of the time.

However, as you mentioned in your original post.... Once that ball comes back, they don't have the ability to deal with it.

Back to my son (and juniors in general), I didn't want him to simply rely on a good serve every time he needed points - I thought he would go to it too often and neglect other parts of his game.

In hindsight, if I thought he would use it sparingly (only when he really needed to), I would have taught him a few good serves, just to boost his confidence in a tight spot.

Not the answer you were looking for, but something to think about 😀

Yes that was me. When I first started playing, I spent all my time doing the ghost serve/heavy backspin serve.
As I progressed I found that my opening up and topspin-to-topspin rally skills became the bottleneck of my game.
Now I spend more time working on the fundamentals (rallying and FOOTWORK).
A small side effect I found is that I don't play as aggressively as I should; I do more "safe" serves even if my opponents would actually struggle with my "good" serves.