Slower rubbers to learn better technique?

[UpSideDownCarl]

Guys, I have a headache.

There is this really hot woman I hit with every so often. She's a recreational player. But she's smoking hot.

Why am I telling you this? Well, no reason.....




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[Xylit]

@Xylit

I believe so as well, but, is it always good advice? That is what I'm trying to get to.

It is ONE possibility to return such topspins, not the only one. NextLevel's suggestion is another one. Counterlooping or backspin chop-defence would be other solutions...therefore it is not fair they try to let you look like a trash-talker concerning this matter

 

[Archosaurus]

@UpSideDownCarl



@Xylit

We were talking specifically about blocking, though. The argument is that a closed angle during blocks will hamper one's progress in learning the block. So maybe not so advanced players should try to deal with heavy topspin in another way.

I will have to play around with it myself before I can really think I have a say in it, but I HAVE observed that more open + higher is at least easier. I'm not terribly sure about learning a more advanced block hampering progress, though.

 

[NextLevel]

It is ONE possibility to return such topspins, not the only one. NextLevel's suggestion is another one. Counterlooping or backspin chop-defence would be other solutions...therefore it is not fair they try to let you look like a trash-talker concerning this matter

Who made him look like a trash talker over this matter? Is it fair that you are talking about people doing something that no one did?

 

[Archosaurus]

Let's not go pointing fingers, now. Xylit was just expressing his opinion and not attacking anyone in particular, had anyone done such an act or not.

I take responsibility for whatever criticism and harsh reactions I might get directed towards me. Don't persecute him, and Xylit please don't persecute anyone, no matter how justified you feel it to be.

Life isn't fair, but that's fine, I guess.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@UpSideDownCarl

I made a joke because I feel like the whole conversation has gotten derailed.

I know we all are table tennis enthusiasts. And if we got in the same room and got to hang out with each other and bang the ball around, we would at least end up finding some common bond and an appreciation for each other's eccentricities.

At a certain point there is no need for more arguing.

I want to play TT with her:

 

[NextLevel]

OK - fine - I rebuilt my technique with Big Dipper and enjoyed it. Slower rubber than Tenergy 05. Not a bad idea to go slower to rebuild technique!

 

[Xylit]

To answer the question about the block:
IMO a classic block against a heavy topsin is with a very closed angle right after the ball bounced off your side of the table. If you hit the ball later you cannot really "block" it anymore, it is more like a counter-spin close to the table or even a smash if it bounces off high enough. Maybe NextLevel wants to explain what he meant by "raise the paddle higher against heavy topsin".

I deleted the rest of my post on demand of Archo

 

[NextLevel]

Usually, most blocking is built into counterhitting technique. So the full counterhitting motion of most top players who are seriously counterhitting is a whip motion that closes over the ball. A block is simply a short version of this motion or a forehand topspin. Therefore a proper block is already closing over the ball. When trying to get someone to change, you want them to hit the ball at a higher point with the same technique. Telling them to close over the ball is unnatural. Telling them to raise the racket higher is much more natural. This is my experience coaching though again, I build the block motion into their counterhit as well, not as a completely separate stroke. Usually, I can tell just by watching someone counterhit whether they have good blocking technique or not.

A classic block as you described is a very passive block and is exactly the kind of thing that will leave you blocking passively and trying to estimate the amount of spin on the incoming ball because the risk implied is significant. Too little spin, your ball is in the net. Too much spin, you didn't close enough. It is better to wait for the ball, get higher to adjust to the amount of topspin and softly whip into the ball.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Usually, most blocking is built into counterhitting technique. So the full counterhitting motion of most top players who are seriously counterhitting is a whip motion that closes over the ball. A block is simply a short version of this motion or a forehand topspin. Therefore a proper block is already closing over the ball. When trying to get someone to change, you want them to hit the ball at a higher point with the same technique. Telling them to close over the ball is unnatural. Telling them to raise the racket higher is much more natural. This is my experience coaching though again, I build the block motion into their counterhit as well, not as a completely separate stroke. Usually, I can tell just by watching someone counterhit whether they have good blocking technique or not.

A classic block as you described is a very passive block and is exactly the kind of thing that will leave you blocking passively and trying to estimate the amount of spin on the incoming ball because the risk implied is significant. Too little spin, your ball is in the net. Too much spin, you didn't close enough. It is better to wait for the ball, get higher to adjust to the amount of topspin and softly whip into the ball.

That description sounds exactly like what I see from most 2500-2600 level players when coaching and blocking. They are not just sticking their racket out. It is a very small stroke that at any moment they could whip more and turn into a counter-loop. [emoji2]

But I'd still rather hit with the woman in the photo. [emoji2]

 

[NextLevel]

But I'd still rather hit with the woman in the photo. [emoji2]

Hit with or hit on?

But the way, I use Omega V Asia which is arguably slower than Tenergy 05. I prefer it largely because of the variation I can get on my loops. But I wouldn't tell anyone to go back to Mark V or Sriver to get a better loop. If that is what you want to do, don't do it. You can push yourself with those rubbers, but not loop better per se with them. Modern loops are more forwards than upwards and require rubbers that can hold the ball with a sort of elasticity/tension that only modern rubbers have.

 

[Shuki]

Okay since this is a blocking thread now , if like a bit of information I'm unfamiliar with. I've seen players literally pull backwards on the paddle as an oncoming heavy topspin ball is making its way towards them. This produces an EXTREMELY passive block almost a double bounce of sorts.

Could someone explain why this kind of a block would be beneficial? Surely it's not a consistent one.


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[Shuki]

Actually I changed my mind, can we talk about Carl's new recreational practice partner?


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[NextLevel]

We need to stay on topic. We just need to decide which one.

 

[Shuki]

Btw my block against HEAVY topspin is more of a raised paddle than just closing my angle. I also loosen my grip quite a bit on the block. I don't believe I've faced a golf ball strong enough that I'm uncomfortable blocking it with my backhand and this strategy.

That is, after being give a few attempts to get the hand of it.

My forehand block however is a sad sight and its better for me to just counter with it at all times at the point of my playing level now.


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[Shuki]

We need to stay on topic. We just need to decide which one.

You've been here long enough to know that whenever a decent question is asked, the op gets the response needed, but then comes more informative discussions branching off.

It's inevitable. Making derailing a difficult rule for a moderator to enforce. Especially when the detail is so helpful to players

 

[Shuki]

Hit with or hit on?

But the way, I use Omega V Asia which is arguably slower than Tenergy 05. I prefer it largely because of the variation I can get on my loops. But I wouldn't tell anyone to go back to Mark V or Sriver to get a better loop. If that is what you want to do, don't do it. You can push yourself with those rubbers, but not loop better per se with them. Modern loops are more forwards than upwards and require rubbers that can hold the ball with a sort of elasticity/tension that only modern rubbers have.

Would you recommend a penholder who rarely loops but to stray from mx-P and go to mark-v? He flat drives and is my practice partner for the time being while I'm working on improving against penholders. He's an rpb penholder and the only one around here that's not being self taught.

But he also knows his "shot" is his strongest point and doesn't loop much unless to set up his "shot"

Shot terminology here is like a smash but lower, I would describe it as a flat drive. Coach just calls it shot.

Coaches terminology differs from most. Smash isn't a word in her vocabulary, neither is drive, neither is push

 

[Der_Echte]

Guys, I have a headache.

There is this really hot woman I hit with every so often. She's a recreational player. But she's smoking hot.

Why am I telling you this? Well, no reason.....




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Carl, Tell her that you are an internet fraud (like me) and experience frequent IBS... then you won't have to worry about the situation being anything other than professional business.

 

[Der_Echte]

Okay since this is a blocking thread now , if like a bit of information I'm unfamiliar with. I've seen players literally pull backwards on the paddle as an oncoming heavy topspin ball is making its way towards them. This produces an EXTREMELY passive block almost a double bounce of sorts.

Could someone explain why this kind of a block would be beneficial? Surely it's not a consistent one.


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Many ways to block. Pulling back the paddle at impact can be tricky, it is much easier to make a soft block by loosening the grip and taking it off the bounce. NL shows some really useful variations everyone ought to learn.

The reason why you would want to soft block is NUMBER ONE: it is safer NUMBER TWO: you might be able to make opponent think you blocked it harder and opponent is now too far back to make an effective attack again. Why telegraph this with your arm when you can the the same or better with grip pressure.

 

[Der_Echte]

Later, after you master getting up to the ball with a loose wrist, you can do a touch/feel soft counter, this is a good effective shot, then later, with more firm grip pressure to make a faster counter BH topspin.