Haven't tried pushes, but I don't serve well enough to make comparisons as there's just too much difference in spin from serve to serve with the same racket.
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Unless I'm missing something I think there is a display error.
From the Select Skill Test page when Topspin vs Block is selected, and then Start Exercise is clicked, the Topspin vs Block page is displayed, but the instructions under the table image reads:
"Serve with as much backspin as possible. The ball needs to bounce two times on the partner's side to count."
This incorrect instruction is displayed for all of the skill tests (of course it's the correct instruction for the Short Backspin Serve Exercise).
Obviously a minor error, especially since the correct instructions are displayed on the page displaying the Start Exercise button.
From the Select Skill Test page when Topspin vs Block is selected, and then Start Exercise is clicked, the Topspin vs Block page is displayed, but the instructions under the table image reads:
"Serve with as much backspin as possible. The ball needs to bounce two times on the partner's side to count."
This incorrect instruction is displayed for all of the skill tests (of course it's the correct instruction for the Short Backspin Serve Exercise).
Obviously a minor error, especially since the correct instructions are displayed on the page displaying the Start Exercise button.
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i did pay for the 4 month player pro subscription and it leaves a little bit to be desired if you want to be an EJ.
You can do the skill tests, but you can not add annotations to actually document what kind of setup you were using. So you only got a timestamp and the result of the skill test, but i would have liked to enter what kind of setup i was using and what kind of drill or robot settings were used. This was with the robot set to only +1 topspin with these setups (top to bottom): W968 Nittaku Hurricane 3 Turbo Blue boosted; W968 Battle 2 Provincial 40', Nittaku Acoustic Stiga DragonGrip, Nittaku Acoustic Rakza Z Extra Hard. Only counting 6 balls for the skill test is also a little small of a number and there is no way to export data to have it historical.
You can do the skill tests, but you can not add annotations to actually document what kind of setup you were using. So you only got a timestamp and the result of the skill test, but i would have liked to enter what kind of setup i was using and what kind of drill or robot settings were used. This was with the robot set to only +1 topspin with these setups (top to bottom): W968 Nittaku Hurricane 3 Turbo Blue boosted; W968 Battle 2 Provincial 40', Nittaku Acoustic Stiga DragonGrip, Nittaku Acoustic Rakza Z Extra Hard. Only counting 6 balls for the skill test is also a little small of a number and there is no way to export data to have it historical.
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It seems like w968 is really spinnier than acoustic, maybe because of the backbone, alc carbon. This is ma long's equipment. Acoustic to w968.
And hurricane is spinnier really than battle 2.
Amazing. Great data. Thank you so much.
It seems like w968 is really spinnier than acoustic, maybe because of the backbone, alc carbon. This is ma long's equipment. Acoustic to w968.
And hurricane is spinnier really than battle 2.
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I just got it and have tried it once so far for about an hour. Unfortunately the tripod in the kit did not fit with a JOOLA square net post. They have a new adjustable one they are going to send me which is nice of them 
I did also buy a new tripod anyway so that I could get the camera placement measurements, my first test the tripod was probably a little low and far away so sometimes it didn't read.
I topped out at 75rps on my top-sidespin reverse, now I have this little challenge from Dan to deal with for the pure backspin serves
I did also buy a new tripod anyway so that I could get the camera placement measurements, my first test the tripod was probably a little low and far away so sometimes it didn't read.
I topped out at 75rps on my top-sidespin reverse, now I have this little challenge from Dan to deal with for the pure backspin serves
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i just borrowed two bats from a team mate that does play long pips.
One is some old "bomb talent" long pips rubber and the other is spinlord dornenglanz. In the next days i will plan to measure the spin reversal via spinsight. Of course i don't have a fricking clue how to play long pips, but most scrublord grandpas that i play against do neither. They know what angle to use when passively blocking the ball over against serves and that's it.
Here is where i will check how much spin actually is returned against serves and against loops (without me chopping).
One is some old "bomb talent" long pips rubber and the other is spinlord dornenglanz. In the next days i will plan to measure the spin reversal via spinsight. Of course i don't have a fricking clue how to play long pips, but most scrublord grandpas that i play against do neither. They know what angle to use when passively blocking the ball over against serves and that's it.
Here is where i will check how much spin actually is returned against serves and against loops (without me chopping).
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Long pips does not reverse the opponent's spin. Without chop-blocking and such, it normally returns the same spin. When the direction of a topspin ball is reversed it will be underspin to the original hitter. In other words against a long pips player one is getting their own spin back. When doing topspin versus topspin rallies, when both players are using inverted rubbers, that is when spin reversal actually occurs.
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Sounds like we are entering a terminology battle. This doesn't help anyone. As long as you both know what each other mean, arguing over what means what can be very unfruitful.
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Not interested in a terminology battle, either. If folks understand that actual spin reversal isn't occurring and it's easier to use that term, it's fine with me. Just threw it out there for clarification because some do think that long pips actually reverses ball spin.
Edited to add: I'm guessing jk1980 already knows that. Again, just wanted to clarify for those who may not be aware.
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Yeah, some people think that but most semin-serious and better players in my experience know that the slipperiness of the pips doesn't stop the ball from spinning so it just continues rotating but the fact it rebounds off the pips and blade means it just comes back towards you. But what this means to most people is that they get the reverse of what they would get if it was inverted. And that for them is reversal. But it is really the slipperiness (lack of friction) and bending of thr pips that are important and causing the "reversal".
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So what happens to the ball when players with long pips does some “boosting?” So that their pips is actually almost slippery like anti spin? More and more player seem to be doing this recently where I am playing
It would be interesting to know how much a good LP chop blocker can vary the return spin from the same quality loops.
I have a spare blade with LP that I use sometimes at the end of a practice session. I can play lazy man pips by just holding the blade out vertically and also chop down at impact to give it more spin. My partner says the spin can be pretty heavy when I chop it.
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Anyone tested different ball brands?
Interested in how Nittaku 3*** Premium compares to Gewo Select Pro 3***.
Interested in how Nittaku 3*** Premium compares to Gewo Select Pro 3***.
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Balls matter for all players, Xushaofa was very good for long pips close to the table chop-blockers. Harder balls like Nittaku & BTY are better for speed & smash.
About frictionless long pips can't create own spin but if receives more spin = more reversal that is....Have in mind that long pips it's a defensive weapon!!
About frictionless long pips can't create own spin but if receives more spin = more reversal that is....Have in mind that long pips it's a defensive weapon!!
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The choice of balls was not possible ,since i head to use the spinsight balls for measurement obviously.
Unfortunately the test had to be changed a little from what i planned initially due to the limitations of my setup.
So my Butterfly robot did only ever create 50 rps on top spin (set to +6 spin +9 speed), so this is more likely a heavy topspin serve than a real loop.
What did i test:
- against topspin +50rps topspin with speed of 20 km/h
- block with inverted (blade angle nearly vertical, perhaps closed by 5 to 10°)
- block with pips out (blade angle nearly vertical perhaps opened by 5 to 10°). Here i had to take the ball earlier for it to even pass the net
- against backspin -43rps backspin with speed of 15 km/h
- push/lift only with inverted
- push block (go through the ball) with long pips
- counter block (counter through the ball with open blade) with long pips
- push/chop with inverted and pips out trying to create maximum backspin
The blades of the first 4 inverted rubbers were Nittaku Acoustic, the Blade of the Bomb Talent/Donic Coppa was a Spinlord Ultraspin, the other blade i did not see any name on it.
What was really frightening is that the amount of spin coming back from a passive block was so low, considering how much spin was "generated" or coming back to the opponent for the long pips rubbers with basically "no own skill", just holding the racket there.
Now the spin values for returning backspin balls.
For longpips i had to pushblock (push and go through the ball with an open blade) for it to pass the net.
For inverted i would only lift the ball.
Testing a little with the Dornenglanz i wanted to find how to return the ball more aggressively and a push counter (basically countering through the ball with an very open blade face) resulted in quite menacing topspin attacks that were low and relatively fast. Balls that you would probably only be able to generate if you had a very good and spinny backhand or forehand flick.
So all in all a little disappointing that i was not able to get higher incoming topspin rotation on my robot, but i did what i could with this setup.
At the very end i wanted to check how much backspin was possible when serving with 0x longpips and i had real trouble even clearing the net, because i had to chop really heard for it to even reach the net. When i finally did i was able to do -19 (backspin) and 9 km/h with the Dornenglanz and -23 (backspin) and 11 km/h with the Bomb Talent.
Unfortunately the test had to be changed a little from what i planned initially due to the limitations of my setup.
So my Butterfly robot did only ever create 50 rps on top spin (set to +6 spin +9 speed), so this is more likely a heavy topspin serve than a real loop.
What did i test:
- against topspin +50rps topspin with speed of 20 km/h
- block with inverted (blade angle nearly vertical, perhaps closed by 5 to 10°)
- block with pips out (blade angle nearly vertical perhaps opened by 5 to 10°). Here i had to take the ball earlier for it to even pass the net
- against backspin -43rps backspin with speed of 15 km/h
- push/lift only with inverted
- push block (go through the ball) with long pips
- counter block (counter through the ball with open blade) with long pips
- push/chop with inverted and pips out trying to create maximum backspin
The blades of the first 4 inverted rubbers were Nittaku Acoustic, the Blade of the Bomb Talent/Donic Coppa was a Spinlord Ultraspin, the other blade i did not see any name on it.
| Incoming Topspin Ball 50rps/20km/h | Spin after Block (+ is topspin/ - is backspin) | speed in km/h |
|---|---|---|
| Block with FastArc C-1 | +16 | 15 |
| Block with Stiga DragonGrip55 | +13 | 14 |
| Block with Glayzer 09C | +18 | 16 |
| Block with Battle 2 Gold Prov | +11 | 13 |
| Block with Donic Coppa | +7 | 13 |
| Block with Rasanter R37 | +11 | 15 |
| Pushblock with Bomb Talent OX | - 36 | 11 |
| Pushblock with Spinlord Dornenglanz OX | - 36 | 12 |
Now the spin values for returning backspin balls.
For longpips i had to pushblock (push and go through the ball with an open blade) for it to pass the net.
For inverted i would only lift the ball.
| Incoming Backspin Ball -43 rps with 15 km/h | Spin after Action (+ is topspin/ - is backspin) | speed in km/h |
|---|---|---|
| Lift the ball with Glayzer 09c | - 20 | 16 |
| Chop the ball with Glayzer 09c | - 57 | 23 |
| Pushblock with Bomb Talent 0X | + 17 | 15 |
| Chop with Bomb Talent 0X | - 22 | 11 |
| Pushblock with Dornenglanz 0X | + 20 | 15 |
| Chop with Dornenglanz 0X | - 18 | 15 |
| Push Counter with Dornenglanz 0X | + 29 | 23 |
Testing a little with the Dornenglanz i wanted to find how to return the ball more aggressively and a push counter (basically countering through the ball with an very open blade face) resulted in quite menacing topspin attacks that were low and relatively fast. Balls that you would probably only be able to generate if you had a very good and spinny backhand or forehand flick.
So all in all a little disappointing that i was not able to get higher incoming topspin rotation on my robot, but i did what i could with this setup.
At the very end i wanted to check how much backspin was possible when serving with 0x longpips and i had real trouble even clearing the net, because i had to chop really heard for it to even reach the net. When i finally did i was able to do -19 (backspin) and 9 km/h with the Dornenglanz and -23 (backspin) and 11 km/h with the Bomb Talent.
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