Stiga Helix Hybrid XH and DNA Hybrid H Review: New Generation vs Old Generation Hybrids

[victormanriquey]

Good morning everybody!

A new fresh review today, and this time is my longest review until now (32 minutes😱) , there was just a lot to say about the new Helix Hybrid and the older DNA Hybrid, also about how the new meta of TT is affecting (or being affected) old and new rubbers! So as always you can find a huge wall of text with all the full details here: https://www.tabletennisequipmenthelp.com/blog/stiga-helix-hybrid-xh-dna-hybrid-h-review

Short summary is that the new Helix Hybrid fits very well in the trend of making a Dignics 09c but more 'accessible' to the wider public, and the DNA Hybrid is an older gen of hybrids who tried to get closer to the Chinese rubbers, so very different philosophies here from Stiga, and it makes sense to me when I think about it from a meta perspective, you can read more about this in the blogpost, I couldn't resist talking about it as it was so evident with these 2 rubbers, really insightful and fun to test them together 😄

As per usual, here's the TL;DR table if you are in a hurry:

Category	Helix Hybrid XH 52.5	DNA Hybrid H 50
Weight	Heavy, 53g cut to the B2X, similar to other harder heavier hybrids	Lighter, 47g cut to the B2X, considerably less heavy
Sponge & Topsheet	Hard 52.5 sponge (but feels softer and livelier) with a slightly tacky topsheet	Medium-hard 50 sponge (feels harder and deader) with a slightly tacky topsheet
Spin potential	A lot of spin and great grip on all shots, surely more than enough for all amateurs	A lot of spin and grip when you brush it correctly and/or in the high gear, low gear chokes the ball
Speed & Gears	High gears, it starts lively already on a medium gear, no clear limit, very fast but relatively controlled	Low amount of gears, it’s very 2-gearish like the BlueGrip S2, low dead gear and an explosive high
Throw angle	Very high throw angle, reminds me of Dignics 09c, medium-long flight depending on the gear	Medium throw angle and lower than Helix Hybrid, something similar to the BlueGrip S1 or Nuzn 48
Drives & Loops	A lot of power that is easy to control when you play forward, both close and far from table, easy openings and easy counterloops	Less power but also less control, worse openings and counterloops, a bit all-or-nothing shots, lacks power far from the table
Serves	Decent spin but less than the Dignics 09c likely due to lively sponge, hard to keep it short	Very good spin when you brush it thinly, more than Rakza Z, easier to keep it short and lower
Flicks	Very good flicks on both sides, easy due to high throw and lively sponge but controlled due to grip and dwell	Not as easy to do flicks on both sides due to low dwell, banana flicks with thin brushing are fine
Pushes	Fairly good control for a fast rubber like this one, watch out for spin sensitivity in heavy spin serves	Top-notch control on short pushes, long pushes need brushing, less sensitive to incoming spin
Blocks	Fairly good at blocking and easy-ish to control the catapult effect, better than a Dignics 09c	Great blocking but you need to adjust to the choking effect on passive blocks, active blocks OK
Flat hits	Not bad at all due to lively sponge, better than expected for a hybrid	Good direct counters for a hybrid but low safety margin, timing is key
Boosting	I would not boost it as it has different hardnesses, this is one of the unique selling points of the rubber	You can boost it to make it more alive but dwell time will suffer and it’s already low, go for Helix instead
Price & Durability	Premium rubber segment without discounts, if durability holds for 3-4 months it can for sure compete against the Dignics 09c	Middle towards expensive price, I think durability will be good but I’d rather buy the Helix Hybrid for its performance on the table

For the coming weeks, I will finish the review of the Tibhar MK Hybrid and MK Pro which is almost done (just doing 1-2 more weeks with both on backhand, having a bit more fun) and I've already starting testing the Xiom Vega China (yes @navuzor and @Kilogramme and others, it's finally coming!) and the the Battle 2 Provincial Blue Sponge, I've played with it in many times the past, but I didn't do a review on it like I do nowadays. I also plan on expanding the reviews on Hurricane 3 Neo alternatives and keep on doing normal Hybrids (and tensors next year). But anyways, next Hybrids will be the Donic BlueGrip J1 and J2 and I will also make some other roundup blogs until the end of the year, so a lot of content coming! I'm happy and excited for that 😎

All right good people, that was all, thank you very much for reading and for your time and feedback, I hope you enjoy the review and that it is helpful to you all, take good care and have a nice end of the week, enjoy table tennis if you are playing today or in the weekend. If you have any questions or comments, just drop them here!

Thanks again,

Victor

 

[Tyce]

Honestly I think the trend moving away from Chinese hybrids is simply inspired by the lack of Chinese dominance. You don't need to say China in order to sell a rubber right now, so brands feel like they can go closer to their original design philosophy.
And when you want a rubber that's good at a lot of things, and makes life easier for a player, you can't be on either end of the spectrum - gotta go middle.

 

[victormanriquey]

Honestly I think the trend moving away from Chinese hybrids is simply inspired by the lack of Chinese dominance. You don't need to say China in order to sell a rubber right now, so brands feel like they can go closer to their original design philosophy.
And when you want a rubber that's good at a lot of things, and makes life easier for a player, you can't be on either end of the spectrum - gotta go middle.

Yes you may be very well right @Tyce , as the Chinese win less maybe people think, well they used to win with the Chinese rubbers, but now others win too with other rubbers, so lets do that.

There is a core of truth in this for sure, you see players like sora or tomo which are playing backhands with very aggresive hybrids and having great success at it. Personally I feel that the hurricane time on the backhand is coming to an end, and Im an 8-80 fan, but the newer hybrids are just better at the new type of game that is being played.

But for the forehand im not sure, I still like the Chinese a lot, probably is because of my stroke, Im still debating internally if I change my forehand rubber to more hybrid or not, on the backhand im settled on hybrids and the question is more which one, I will keep thinking

 

[Archosaurus]

Not sure if H3/H8 on backhand will die out on the amateur circuit for a good while. It's true they're not as good for the bang-bang kind of backhand game, but that's not how everyone plays or needs to play at a lot of levels. Honestly you can say the same for a lot of rubbers which are completely unusable at a semi-pro level or above.

 

[Tyce]

Yeah, as far as the meta is concerned, it's all good at the top levels but I encounter more 90s meta equipment than 20s at my level. Even Hurricane 3 is a rare sight, and that's been pretty much the major thing at the top for quite a bit now.
Yes, there's a couple of Tenergy here and there, but it's more common to see Mark V than T/D05.
Maybe two exceptions, which are Vega Europe and Rakza 7 (soft), but if I'm totally honest most of those are playing a higher level.
I still encounter lots of thin wood 5ply players (Appelgren Allplay, Primorac wood or their counterparts).

The weird bit is, this seems to be a local thing. In Düsseldorf, everyone used more powerful blades, rubbers, or both. Maybe it's because we're a country of cheapskates, maybe it's the "don't stick your head out" mentality, idk.

But yeah, I'm not concerned much about the meta. I'm more concerned about what I can handle, and what I can actually use effectively against the people I encounter.

 

[Archosaurus]

Yeah, as far as the meta is concerned, it's all good at the top levels but I encounter more 90s meta equipment than 20s at my level. Even Hurricane 3 is a rare sight, and that's been pretty much the major thing at the top for quite a bit now.
Yes, there's a couple of Tenergy here and there, but it's more common to see Mark V than T/D05.
Maybe two exceptions, which are Vega Europe and Rakza 7 (soft), but if I'm totally honest most of those are playing a higher level.
I still encounter lots of thin wood 5ply players (Appelgren Allplay, Primorac wood or their counterparts).

The weird bit is, this seems to be a local thing. In Düsseldorf, everyone used more powerful blades, rubbers, or both. Maybe it's because we're a country of cheapskates, maybe it's the "don't stick your head out" mentality, idk.

But yeah, I'm not concerned much about the meta. I'm more concerned about what I can handle, and what I can actually use effectively against the people I encounter.

The lower tier players here already are using generally expensive and high-end equipment relatively. Things like Rasanter, Fastarc and Rozena.
You don't really find non-hobbyists using anything like Mercury or AK47, the cheapest I've seen must be Target and Battle 2.
Usually paired with 5ply wood blades although people using the slower rubbers might use an inner blade. The hobbyists just use cheap stuff like RXTON 1 on premades. Then there's me using H3 like a complete sicko, although performance wise I'm supposedly creeping towards the lower boundary of mid-tier but I'm not so sure if that's true.

The mid-tier players are using things like Tenergy, Dignics, Zyre, Hybrid MK, DNA/Helix, Bluefire, H3 and H8.
Almost exclusively Viscaria derivatives although some use things like Acoustic. I think they've gone overboard with equipment and a lot of them are holding back their strokes and make lots of mistakes from being timid.

The actual high level players are a mixed bag but nobody's using anything "cheap" or "outdated". Mostly European rubbers and outer fiber blades AFAIK but there's a few old timers with wood blades. Even this level isn't high enough that "meta" becomes a real concern, that's in the international player level where they're not even allowed to compete in the club leagues anymore LOL.

At the level I play at (higher low tier or lower mid tier supposedly) I'm sure I could do just as well with a 5ply and 90s rubbers although I'd need to work a bit harder. The only reason I use more capable (and expensive) equipment is because I mostly play with mid-tier players and the old stuff doesn't have as much performance overhead, but if my goal was to completely demolish the lower leagues, I'd switch to something bloody slow for max control and wait for their mistakes.

 

[Tyce]

I getcha. Chinese rubbers are just very rare altogether here.
I keep going back and forth between betting on full control and something that I can actually use to develop an offensive game with. One can use H3 both ways which makes it interesting, and the same can be said for a lot of hybrids.

 

[victormanriquey]

Not sure if H3/H8 on backhand will die out on the amateur circuit for a good while. It's true they're not as good for the bang-bang kind of backhand game, but that's not how everyone plays or needs to play at a lot of levels. Honestly you can say the same for a lot of rubbers which are completely unusable at a semi-pro level or above.

Yeah fully agree, what the pros or high level players do is not what we do or what we need, but it's interesting how the same philosophy is coming in small bits to the amateur gear, I think that trend will continue

Yeah, as far as the meta is concerned, it's all good at the top levels but I encounter more 90s meta equipment than 20s at my level. Even Hurricane 3 is a rare sight, and that's been pretty much the major thing at the top for quite a bit now.
Yes, there's a couple of Tenergy here and there, but it's more common to see Mark V than T/D05.
Maybe two exceptions, which are Vega Europe and Rakza 7 (soft), but if I'm totally honest most of those are playing a higher level.
I still encounter lots of thin wood 5ply players (Appelgren Allplay, Primorac wood or their counterparts).

Yes this is so true, H3(N) is very rare in our club too, Mark V used to be a thing but not anymore, now I see more Tenergys and above all Vega Europe and Rakza 7 indeed, also some Nuzn is starting to come alongside Dignics. And yes a lot of all wood frames for sure.

The weird bit is, this seems to be a local thing. In Düsseldorf, everyone used more powerful blades, rubbers, or both. Maybe it's because we're a country of cheapskates, maybe it's the "don't stick your head out" mentality, idk.

But yeah, I'm not concerned much about the meta. I'm more concerned about what I can handle, and what I can actually use effectively against the people I encounter.

Agreed to both @Tyce , I have the exact same experience with gear and yes, best to use the best weapon, not the most modern or meta ones.

 

[Archosaurus]

Market perception and spending ability has a lot to do with it. Chinese budget rubbers are very popular in a lot of S.E Asia and India. Even the Indian and Pakistani players around here who can afford more expensive models will still be using Chinese more budget-oriented models.

Players in western and more developed asian countries tend to spend more because of the perception that spending more will give you a better product, irregardless of how true that actually is.

 

[victormanriquey]

The lower tier players here already are using generally expensive and high-end equipment relatively. Things like Rasanter, Fastarc and Rozena.
You don't really find non-hobbyists using anything like Mercury or AK47, the cheapest I've seen must be Target and Battle 2.
Usually paired with 5ply wood blades although people using the slower rubbers might use an inner blade. The hobbyists just use cheap stuff like RXTON 1 on premades. Then there's me using H3 like a complete sicko, although performance wise I'm supposedly creeping towards the lower boundary of mid-tier but I'm not so sure if that's true.

The mid-tier players are using things like Tenergy, Dignics, Zyre, Hybrid MK, DNA/Helix, Bluefire, H3 and H8.
Almost exclusively Viscaria derivatives although some use things like Acoustic. I think they've gone overboard with equipment and a lot of them are holding back their strokes and make lots of mistakes from being timid.

The actual high level players are a mixed bag but nobody's using anything "cheap" or "outdated". Mostly European rubbers and outer fiber blades AFAIK but there's a few old timers with wood blades. Even this level isn't high enough that "meta" becomes a real concern, that's in the international player level where they're not even allowed to compete in the club leagues anymore LOL.

At the level I play at (higher low tier or lower mid tier supposedly) I'm sure I could do just as well with a 5ply and 90s rubbers although I'd need to work a bit harder. The only reason I use more capable (and expensive) equipment is because I mostly play with mid-tier players and the old stuff doesn't have as much performance overhead, but if my goal was to completely demolish the lower leagues, I'd switch to something bloody slow for max control and wait for their mistakes.

Very nice to see and read about this, it's always very interesting how in each place the philosophy varies amongst amateurs and clubs.

I've seen some young players also now with fast carbon blades and rozena/fastarc, and indeed nobody uses B2 (maybe one guy who likes cheap Chinese stuff and me haha) and no mercury or AK47, also no targets here, sanwei is unknown in NL I feel, 729 already is 'exotic' enough haha

And yes, if you use H3 you are the mad man also in NL @Archosaurus 😂

Mid tier seems much more advanced where you are, and indeed overboard imo in many cases, viscaria with dignics or zyre has so much power, hard to control in tense match situations really, I think even our best players may struggle with such a setup in tough games.

And yeah our high level players also dont care about the meta mostly, only the younger ones because they go to national and international tranining camps and there they teach the new game.

We could all be fine using cheap stuff (like PG7/Fextra + 729 or sanwei or DHS), important part is not to go too hard or powerful, but if you stay in the reasonable stuff then it's all good, sometimes paying a bit more has a bit more quality and performance out of the box and that's also worth something (time and confidence for example)

 

[victormanriquey]

Market perception and spending ability has a lot to do with it. Chinese budget rubbers are very popular in a lot of S.E Asia and India. Even the Indian and Pakistani players around here who can afford more expensive models will still be using Chinese more budget-oriented models.

Players in western and more developed asian countries tend to spend more because of the perception that spending more will give you a better product, irregardless of how true that actually is.

This is so true, sometimes you go to a shop and you think, the expensive thing is better, it's just humans being humans haha

 

[navuzor]

Looking very much forward to the upcoming reviews. Have you tried the non-hybrid versions of these rubbers? @victormanriquey

 

[Archosaurus]

Very nice to see and read about this, it's always very interesting how in each place the philosophy varies amongst amateurs and clubs.

I've seen some young players also now with fast carbon blades and rozena/fastarc, and indeed nobody uses B2 (maybe one guy who likes cheap Chinese stuff and me haha) and no mercury or AK47, also no targets here, sanwei is unknown in NL I feel, 729 already is 'exotic' enough haha

And yes, if you use H3 you are the mad man also in NL @Archosaurus 😂

Mid tier seems much more advanced where you are, and indeed overboard imo in many cases, viscaria with dignics or zyre has so much power, hard to control in tense match situations really, I think even our best players may struggle with such a setup in tough games.

And yeah our high level players also dont care about the meta mostly, only the younger ones because they go to national and international tranining camps and there they teach the new game.

We could all be fine using cheap stuff (like PG7/Fextra + 729 or sanwei or DHS), important part is not to go too hard or powerful, but if you stay in the reasonable stuff then it's all good, sometimes paying a bit more has a bit more quality and performance out of the box and that's also worth something (time and confidence for example)

Those mid-tier players complain they can't do strokes in real games like they do in practice, and even in practice they occasionally lose sets to me with narrow margins for the shots. Balls barely going out or netting. I gave one VIS + Dignics user my Fextra inner + Target setup to loop chop with once and he said it was "very easy".

The coaches advise them to use something a little slower, but they don't listen.
They train relatively a lot so they can just about handle it, but it's maybe slightly too rapid in the touch play. I feel like a lot of those guys who play with a more brushed looping style with more pushes and less flicks would play the same or better with Glayzer or G-1 than Dignics or Tenergy. Even I can play with G-1.

If I had to rate the play level of the mid-tier players, something like USATT 1600 is probably accurate. Good players, but it's not very difficult to get to that level. The play level even one or two divisions higher is much more advanced, though. The H3 users are basically all one step above the Dignics and Tenergy users. Just recently I played with one of those lower-tier mid-tier players and he said that he felt my H3 is very fast when receiving it and was surprised to learn it's not really from the user's perspective LOL. He thought it was a very tensioned rubber.

 

[victormanriquey]

Looking very much forward to the upcoming reviews. Have you tried the non-hybrid versions of these rubbers? @victormanriquey

Me too! Already seeing interesting differences and insights

And no, unfortunately I have not, but I plan on testing more tensors next year, so may be a good chance to compare the tensors vs the hybrids! I played once DNA platinum though, but too short to really give an opinion.

 

[victormanriquey]

Those mid-tier players complain they can't do strokes in real games like they do in practice, and even in practice they occasionally lose sets to me with narrow margins for the shots. Balls barely going out or netting. I gave one VIS + Dignics user my Fextra inner + Target setup to loop chop with once and he said it was "very easy".

The coaches advise them to use something a little slower, but they don't listen.
They train relatively a lot so they can just about handle it, but it's maybe slightly too rapid in the touch play. I feel like a lot of those guys who play with a more brushed looping style with more pushes and less flicks would play the same or better with Glayzer or G-1 than Dignics or Tenergy. Even I can play with G-1.

Yeah this happens all too often They would certainly play with more control, and often that leads to winning more games when things get tense, a cramped arm never does good on a fast cannon

If I had to rate the play level of the mid-tier players, something like USATT 1600 is probably accurate. Good players, but it's not very difficult to get to that level. The play level even one or two divisions higher is much more advanced, though. The H3 users are basically all one step above the Dignics and Tenergy users. Just recently I played with one of those lower-tier mid-tier players and he said that he felt my H3 is very fast when receiving it and was surprised to learn it's not really from the user's perspective LOL. He thought it was a very tensioned rubber.

H3 tensioned? maybe he referred to spin sensitivity because unless you boost it properly, H3 is as dead and untensioned as a brick haha and yes, getting to USATT 1600 is not difficult with time and good coaching/practice, it should be doable for most amateurs, for sure 1500