The Surest Way to Get Rid of Illegal Serve Complaints

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I get the colors blending (but I like the Newton's disk demo). What I don't get is how you're supposed to read spin from one uniform blended color. This was a rhetorical question (i.e., there's no extra information so you might as well be playing with an all white ball). But what if the ball is spinning slowly enough that the colors don't blend? In the extreme case of no spin at all, it's a clear advantage over an all white ball for the receiver; there would be hardly any deception possible with dead ball serves. What about slowly spinning serves where the colors don't completely blend? It seems to me -- based on experimenting a few days ago with my coach using DHS orange/white balls -- that there might be some extra information available to the receiver on some serves some of the time. It really has to be spinning quite slowly; but, if you could read those serves more easily, then it would remove some deception from the that part of the dynamic spin range of the server. So another possible advantage over all white balls for the receiver. As for the ZJK/Dima video, I'd need higher quality and slower slow motion.

there is just not enough time to (rely on) read the ball from the serve.
i think if hidden is eliminated, most pros players are happier to see the contact than to follow the ball

until then, there is no ITTF approved two-tone ball.

there are training balls where non pros are welcome to use daily and can probably report back on the matter.

 

[Dr Evil]

there is just not enough time to (rely on) read the ball from the serve.

I think this is right almost all the time (except for dead balls). But for some slowly spinning serves there does seem to be a little extra information that might be readable with practice. In particular, for some initial orientations of the ball on server contact, pure sidespin may be usefully distinguishable from serves with a top/under component.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think this is right almost all the time (except for dead balls). But for some slowly spinning serves there does seem to be a little extra information that might be readable with practice. In particular, for some initial orientations of the ball on server contact, pure sidespin may be usefully distinguishable from serves with a top/under component.

it needs to be put into action tested and have proper report.
I have players that used it before and didn't see much difference, in fact I heard criticism of difficulty to follow the ball in rallies. That was a long time ago though

 

[IB66]

true
and don't forget, pros can achieve rpm more than double then the average forum member, maybe even triple.

Hi Tony, any data on the rpm that Pro’s achieve?
I think there was a thread that said maybe 5000 - 6000 rpm or possibly 8000!! This may have been with the old ball.
At lower rpm’s achievable by amateur players. If both the old and new balls were spinning at an achievable 2000 rpm the new ball is actually more spinny than the old ball!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hi Tony, any data on the rpm that Pro’s achieve?
I think there was a thread that said maybe 5000 - 6000 rpm or possibly 8000!! This may have been with the old ball.
At lower rpm’s achievable by amateur players. If both the old and new balls were spinning at an achievable 2000 rpm the new ball is actually more spinny than the old ball!!

I think i saw some study/thesis before
the ESPN sport science video also has it (40mm ball)
ESPN had Erica Wu doing it, she isn't the "highest" spin player out there.

 

[IB66]

regarding hidden serves and 2 colour balls.
When I 1st started playing I learnt to hide the contact of my (FH) serves, after a long break from TT I was constantly called for hiding my serve when I returned to TT. Muscle memory and old habits was kicking in big time!! It’s amazing how your brain and body remembers and ‘unconsciously’ you do certain actions or motions.
I have used 2 colour balls during coaching to show explain spin in the past but that’s about it.
I think the jury is out regarding using 2 colour balls in general play. Perhaps I’ll get some a give it a try!! But if you became reliant on using a 2 colour ball to read spin levels,and then played with the single colour ball, I think you would struggle!!
If you use a single colour ball with a good clear logo on it, you get a similar amount of info to a 2 colour ball !! But this is really just something like that is heavy spin, or light / no spin, or medium spin.

 

[Dr Evil]

it needs to be put into action tested and have proper report.
I have players that used it before and didn't see much difference, in fact I heard criticism of difficulty to follow the ball in rallies. That was a long time ago though

Agree. My coach and I both found the orange/white ball more difficult to track in rallies. It seemed to have less contrast against the table/background. Even if there is some advantage for receivers (and we both felt it would be small), players would just stop using serves that can be easily read this way.

 

[TTFrenzy]

I get the colors blending (but I like the Newton's disk demo). What I don't get is how you're supposed to read spin from one uniform blended color. This was a rhetorical question (i.e., there's no extra information so you might as well be playing with an all white ball). But what if the ball is spinning slowly enough that the colors don't blend? In the extreme case of no spin at all, it's a clear advantage over an all white ball for the receiver; there would be hardly any deception possible with dead ball serves. What about slowly spinning serves where the colors don't completely blend? It seems to me -- based on experimenting a few days ago with my coach using DHS orange/white balls -- that there might be some extra information available to the receiver on some serves some of the time. It really has to be spinning quite slowly; but, if you could read those serves more easily, then it would remove some deception from the that part of the dynamic spin range of the server. So another possible advantage over all white balls for the receiver. As for the ZJK/Dima video, I'd need higher quality and slower slow motion.

Yeah I tend to overanalyse sometimes I'm sorry. for me even with a colored ball that blends I can clearly see the spin, I believe it has to do with familiarity with the phenomenon, if you do some practice drills with a 2 colored ball it will be easier for sure. Of course the best way to read the spin is to feel it, but as you said a slow spinning ball is definitely MORE visible than a fast spinning one. Dhs colored balls are perfect for practicing against pips, cause you have the time to actually see exactly how much the ball is spinning or not

Today I served some 2 colored dhs balls doing a hook serve, and because my spin quality is low, to my surprise I noticed that when I did a sidespin/underspin serve (mostly side spin though) after the 2nd bounce the ball had only sidespin which can be confusing with a single colored ball, both for the opponent and for me when I know/feel exactly what I did with the ball

Unfortunately I dont have a slow motion camera, but I will try and record some serves and maybe I can show you what I am talking about