Vibration Property on Butterfly Matrix

[lodro]

Nonsense. People have control. Any vibration you feel is energy that is in the blade and not returned to the ball and by the time you feel it the ball is long gone.

I have posted a video of my Toxic 5 hard bat. It vibrates a lot. It is also very slow and it doesn't have any control unless I control it.

BTW, I played with it this week against a double inverted player. I did well and it was fun.

I agree.
I just read to this thread the first time and reading post #6 from Shuki, where he says: "As you can feel the ball dig into your blade with more vibrations, you can get direct feedback to how much more you need to close your paddle or open it if you misread their spin. """ Something in me thought :::"""WAIT A MINUTE""" . Of course by the time the ball touches the blade the angles have been already established and when we """feeeel""" the impact and vibrations
and realize it is wrong no correction is possible anymore. We do not even have time to say : F#%&**

 

[SDC]

The reaction parameter on the Butterfly matrix is most likely linked to the fist vibration mode (bending along the longitudinal axis), and it's directly proportional to the stiffness of the blade along the major axis. More stiffness -> less dissipated energy -> bigger reaction. This mode has nothing to do with feedback, we can't feel it in the hand, and it's not the mode we measure with our phones. That is the 6th (membrane mode), and it denotes the out-of-plane deflection of the blade. Mathematically the 6th mode derives from the fist, but it also depends on the lateral stiffness, so they are not directly proportional. We can feel this vibration in the hand, and this mode (maybe along with other important ones) is what Butterfly tries to associate with the vibration parameter. So, in reality the graph shows a relation between the 1st and 6th modes.

It is true that a blade doesn't have control, the player controls it. It is also true that when we feel any vibration, and think about doing any adjustment, the ball is long gone, but that information sinks into your brain, and allows you to adjust to the next shot. More vibration means more tactile information, that's why it is commonly associated with control. If you hit hard the blade will vibrate more, and to some players that might be too much information. So, they get a blade that vibrates less, or just enough for that type of impact.

 

[Manto76]

What a pity.
This thread had such potential to degenerate into an entertaining argument, but then Sergio came along and ruined it all with a sensible explanation based on actual knowledge. Spoilsport.

 

[SDC]

What a pity.
This thread had such potential to degenerate into an entertaining argument, but then Sergio came along and ruined it all with a sensible explanation based on actual knowledge. Spoilsport.

I'm not very good at parties [emoji28]

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[brokenball]

The butterfly table is bogus. What do the numbers mean? Maybe there is an explanation in English somewhere.
The TT manufacturers cater to the ignorance of their customers.

I would like to know what the 6 mode of vibration has to do with this.
Only the first mode matters. It is the one that rebounds like on a trampoline or diving board. Both may vibrate in different ways after the person has left but these vibrations don't help the jumper or diver. Shoot an arrow. Only the first mode of vibration moves the arrow. After that the vibration in the bow or string does nothing.

 

[dingyibvs]

A few simplified statements, so everyone can understand:

1) A ball's dwell time on the rubber has been measured at anywhere between 1 to 4 milliseconds. Human reaction time is longer than 100 ms so vibration feedback does not directly contribute to control.

2) A blade is a complex object with many vibrations mixed together, each with its own frequency and amplitude (analogous to pitch and loudness for sounds). Describing a blade's vibration with a single adjective is thus technically impossible--which vibration are you talking about, and are you referring to its frequency or amplitude?

3) What people have been talking about in this thread refer to two different vibrations. The first type of vibration's frequency ("pitch") is directly related to the blade's stiffness, and according to hipnotic we can't feel this vibration (I don't have the knowledge to independently verify this). The second type of vibration is what we feel with our fingers, and it's probably not a single vibration but a mixture of many. The higher the amplitude ("loudness") of this mixture of vibration's, the more we feel it, but the quality of the feeling will depend on its frequency ("pitch"), or more technically, the mixture of frequencies or the "tone" (analogous to how the same note on a piano sounds different from one from a trumpet).

 

[SDC]

The butterfly table is bogus. What do the numbers mean? Maybe there is an explanation in English somewhere.
The TT manufacturers cater to the ignorance of their customers.

I would like to know what the 6 mode of vibration has to do with this.
Only the first mode matters. It is the one that rebounds like on a trampoline or diving board. Both may vibrate in different ways after the person has left but these vibrations don't help the jumper or diver. Shoot an arrow. Only the first mode of vibration moves the arrow. After that the vibration in the bow or string does nothing.

I'm not getting sucked into one of your meaningless arguments. All I'm going to say is that your analogy is very weak and it only shows you don't understand the subject at all. My answer is above, either agree with it or not, I don't care. Merry Christmas!

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[Lazer]

The butterfly table is bogus. What do the numbers mean? Maybe there is an explanation in English somewhere.
The TT manufacturers cater to the ignorance of their customers.

I would like to know what the 6 mode of vibration has to do with this.
Only the first mode matters. It is the one that rebounds like on a trampoline or diving board. Both may vibrate in different ways after the person has left but these vibrations don't help the jumper or diver. Shoot an arrow. Only the first mode of vibration moves the arrow. After that the vibration in the bow or string does nothing.

The English explanation is quoted in my first post above and it makes perfect sense.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[James Z]

https://butterflyonline.com/Templates/BladeSpecifications.pdf

It is interesting to note in the chart above that a carbon blade, Sardius still reigns supreme for shakehand blade
This was the blade used by Johnny Huang , the only top pro I am aware of who was a shakehander to use short pips both sides
Are there any there top pros using Sardius nowadays ?

I think Cypress is also the same for penhold. BUt I know of any pros who use or used it