W968 National Question

[Zezima]

Yeah will do. I could actually feel the bumps when I drifted my finger over the rubber.

Also is this some Chinese special d09c rubbers?

There is also nothing engraved on the blade.

 

[schrodingerskoalabear]

if anyone has specific question they would like to know about the blade/setup. Feel free to ask me but be specific. I can then give my opinion and try my best to answer. I also consider filming myself to see if I somewhat change my technique subconsiously to adjust to the setup but not quite sure how I should do it since I don't want to make a 30min long video any ideas?

Based on how your training goes today, can you explain
(i) how head-heavy it feels in comparison to HL5
(ii) how does the brushing loop feel in terms of safety compared to HL5

 

[Zezima]

Alright first training session over. ~2,5h.
My first impression (reminder the Rubbers play a bit different after a few training session since they are fresh):

I could control the blade could topspin safely from the start. Didn't need any adjustment time. Driving the ball feels easier compared to my Long 5 that tends to go into the net because its slower I guess.

W968:
Topspins felt like it has lower arc could be just a fluke though needs more playtime. Def hit into the net more when I tried to brush topspin with a thin contact. I had more success with a thicker contact - more hitting the ball forwards.
Blocking and pushing is easy. Playing the ball short back is also good.

FH Flick haven't tested and I also don't really play that stroke unless I am forced to.
FH opening against long backspin. Good because of the lower arc it tends to go short if I brush too thinly need to hit the ball more -> to play that stroke I need to be in a good position. Just arm motion is not enough and is very uncontrolled compared to Long 5.
Topspin against block was really good again I guess lower arc makes me feel confident to hit the ball more -> again needs more testing.
Slow loops is not so good with this blade compared to Long 5. Just goes into the net most of the time.

Backhand:
With this blade I could get some insane backhand topspins against block balls. My partner struggeled a lot (he didn't struggle too much with my fh in comparison) even though his backhand block is as good as his forehand block.
Overall felt really safe opening any serve with my backhand topspin/flick and if they play the next ball back into my BH I usually got the winner. Again needs more testing against better players aswell.

so Backhand strokes W968>Long5
Forehand strokes Long5>W968 just because I need to adjust my technique more and go away from brushing thinly and slow. If I manage that then W968 has more potential.

@schrodingerskoalabear
(i) tbh my W968 blade size is bigger I think 16cm compared to Long 5 which has like 15,4cm other than that didn't feel much difference I have the W968 in FL and Long5 in Straight. But the FL also sits well in my big hands.

(ii) HL5 is better but then again I have been playing that blade for 2 years now and 5months with d09c.

I actually got exposed a bit more with the W968 if I didn't loop with a more hit motion the balls would go just above the net very short and if they block the ball doesn't come long again and my lazy ass doesn't move forwards to loop again so I end up pushing the ball back and reset the rally often. I already had that problem with Long5 so it's a me problem.

Will be testing more in the next days will go to a different club to train some more.

 

[Zezima]

Alright 2nd training session with my brother this time. Did a lot of opening up (against half long/long backspin pushes) and then follow up loops. 1-1-1 entire Table loops. Loop after backspin serve (he pushes long anywhere I have to loop). Same with multiball...

What I noticed: I have lots of spin. If I go for powerloops it was usually a winner. he is a RC 900 rated player so I am not that harsh on him but I know my loop quality myself and I can tell that it has more quality if I actually engage the blade and hit forwards with the body and legs.

My backhand topspin is nuts. He actually got pissed and said why don't you play like this in an actual game. I am like match is always different and you go for safety over "beautiful - all in shots" I am not used to being able to loop this fast and spinny so if the ball comes back I am probably not gonna be ready to loop it again with the same quality lol.

Only problem I have right now is really the Forehand. I sometimes contact it too thinly and then it just plumbs into the net. I actually don't remember my Forehand problems with Long 5. Seems like I forgot against which balls I make the most mistakes. And somehow I remember all my mistakes with this setup because I got the expectation to be able to land every single shot and if not understand why it went wrong? But it feels like sometimes I don't even understand why it went into the net. Again it's a me problem because I am not always aware how I hit the ball (which angle my racket had also which trajectory and timing I chose) I find it's hard to recognize it if you loop the balls "fast"

I am also scared that I will lose the games next week just because I have this high expectation that I have to perform immediately with this blade. I don't think I will gain the confidence since all my trainingspartner are lower rated than me and I am gonna face same/slightly higher rated players than me. This is my biggest worry. I just don't want to default to passive push/block play and then only do mistakes when attacking. But the mind works exactly like this if I keep thinking this way. It's like saying don't think about a red elephant and you will always think of that afterwards.

We also have a break of 6 Months. So It would be really cool to beat the players of the team that is 1st place. Against their number 1 I had won 11-8 in the last set. But even back then he put so much pressure that I was more defending than attacking.

Sorry for too much rambling. Just wanted to put my thoughts out here with what I am dealing with atm. Again I am really happy with my performance just worried I won't be able to show it in the matches next week.

 

[Tyce]

Play your match with your most comfortable setup. Don't rush this new blade

 

[SFF_lib]

Alright 2nd training session with my brother this time. Did a lot of opening up (against half long/long backspin pushes) and then follow up loops. 1-1-1 entire Table loops. Loop after backspin serve (he pushes long anywhere I have to loop). Same with multiball...

What I noticed: I have lots of spin. If I go for powerloops it was usually a winner. he is a RC 900 rated player so I am not that harsh on him but I know my loop quality myself and I can tell that it has more quality if I actually engage the blade and hit forwards with the body and legs.

My backhand topspin is nuts. He actually got pissed and said why don't you play like this in an actual game. I am like match is always different and you go for safety over "beautiful - all in shots" I am not used to being able to loop this fast and spinny so if the ball comes back I am probably not gonna be ready to loop it again with the same quality lol.

Only problem I have right now is really the Forehand. I sometimes contact it too thinly and then it just plumbs into the net. I actually don't remember my Forehand problems with Long 5. Seems like I forgot against which balls I make the most mistakes. And somehow I remember all my mistakes with this setup because I got the expectation to be able to land every single shot and if not understand why it went wrong? But it feels like sometimes I don't even understand why it went into the net. Again it's a me problem because I am not always aware how I hit the ball (which angle my racket had also which trajectory and timing I chose) I find it's hard to recognize it if you loop the balls "fast"

I am also scared that I will lose the games next week just because I have this high expectation that I have to perform immediately with this blade. I don't think I will gain the confidence since all my trainingspartner are lower rated than me and I am gonna face same/slightly higher rated players than me. This is my biggest worry. I just don't want to default to passive push/block play and then only do mistakes when attacking. But the mind works exactly like this if I keep thinking this way. It's like saying don't think about a red elephant and you will always think of that afterwards.

We also have a break of 6 Months. So It would be really cool to beat the players of the team that is 1st place. Against their number 1 I had won 11-8 in the last set. But even back then he put so much pressure that I was more defending than attacking.

Sorry for too much rambling. Just wanted to put my thoughts out here with what I am dealing with atm. Again I am really happy with my performance just worried I won't be able to show it in the matches next week.

Ease of accessing power: Provincial 968 > = HL5 > National W968
Hardness: National W968 > Provincial 968 > HL5
Dwell time/Catapult in low impact: Provincial 968 > HL5 > National W968
Dwell time/Catapult in high impact: W968 > Provincial 968 > HL5

It is much easier to play HL5/Provincial 968 close to table. National W968 only excels in powerloop far away from the table. They made National W968 so hard on purpose because the professional players are good enough to access the max power.

 

[Vlady85fr]

I have a W968 Golden (No. 3, 88g) and a commercial Golden (91g). I do see a difference in the manufacturing (wider shaft on the commercial one), but also in the ball feel! The latter is much slower, a little more flexy (despite its heavier weight), with a very slight spin reduction (impression) despite the fact that it still puts a lot of spin on it!
On my box, you can see that my W968 belongs to a CNT player, but I don't know who, and that my Q968 belongs to WCQ.

 

[Zezima]

Ease of accessing power: Provincial 968 > = HL5 > National W968
Hardness: National W968 > Provincial 968 > HL5
Dwell time/Catapult in low impact: Provincial 968 > HL5 > National W968
Dwell time/Catapult in high impact: W968 > Provincial 968 > HL5

It is much easier to play HL5/Provincial 968 close to table. National W968 only excels in powerloop far away from the table. They made National W968 so hard on purpose because the professional players are good enough to access the max power.

the 400$ on Prott is considered the Provincial 968 or what?

For me it's not about close or far away from the table per se. It's about what kind of ball I am receiving. So for example if I get a normal block ball back that has some energy I got no problems even if its shorter.
But if I get a slow (no spin ball) but long enough that I am forced to loop I have big problems. Because sometimes the rubber grips and it flys out or it doesn't grip and goes straight into the net.

I could powerloop long balls (receive) close to the table still. I think with these kind of blades it makes no difference (in terms of close/far away from table) and it all comes down to how you transfer your body into the shots. And either way in an actual match 90% of the balls are being played close to the table atleast in my matches/in my definition.

You definetly get a really good feedback when you topspin the ball right. Like I can say ok this was a very good Topspin and I work to recreate that feeling.

I have another training session today and I might be able to train with the youth coach that gave me some feedback the lasttime. He is really good at blocking and can also attack so I will get a better conclusion after I think.

 

[SFF_lib]

the 400$ on Prott is considered the Provincial 968 or what?

For me it's not about close or far away from the table per se. It's about what kind of ball I am receiving. So for example if I get a normal block ball back that has some energy I got no problems even if its shorter.
But if I get a slow (no spin ball) but long enough that I am forced to loop I have big problems. Because sometimes the rubber grips and it flys out or it doesn't grip and goes straight into the net.

I could powerloop long balls (receive) close to the table still. I think with these kind of blades it makes no difference (in terms of close/far away from table) and it all comes down to how you transfer your body into the shots. And either way in an actual match 90% of the balls are being played close to the table atleast in my matches/in my definition.

You definetly get a really good feedback when you topspin the ball right. Like I can say ok this was a very good Topspin and I work to recreate that feeling.

I have another training session today and I might be able to train with the youth coach that gave me some feedback the lasttime. He is really good at blocking and can also attack so I will get a better conclusion after I think.

Yes that's what I mean. When someone push long with no or backspin and let's say you're out of position, HL5 and my old provincial 968 is much easier. I loop it with 3/10 strength and it will flex. If I loop a national W968 with 3/10 strength it's stil rigid as a brick. Hence arc is higher with older 968, HL5, provincial 968 than national W968.

And btw D09C on FH has a lower arc than H3, hence it doesn't go too well with national W968. I tried D09C on my super flexible old 968 and it worked ok.

 

[Zezima]

Yes that's what I mean. When someone push long with no or backspin and let's say you're out of position, HL5 and my old provincial 968 is much easier. I loop it with 3/10 strength and it will flex. If I loop a national W968 with 3/10 strength it's stil rigid as a brick. Hence arc is higher with older 968, HL5, provincial 968 than national W968.

And btw D09C on FH has a lower arc than H3, hence it doesn't go too well with national W968. I tried D09C on my super flexible old 968 and it worked ok.

I think because on those shots I don't engage the rubber well the ball becomes very unpredictable.
It could be because I have new D09c sheets and gets better over time or as you said that the H3 is better for those kind of balls idk never played with a H3. Just seems very exhausting to boost and to know when to get new sheets and do the same process again. Just overall sounds very inconsistent (having the same playability each time)
I am happy with the arc nothing to complain so far. Can loop any long backspin ball without them going into the net too many times. Maybe because of the arc I got so much confidence going forwards. I am also very happy with the spin I generate. Will try and see if it works against the youth coach aswell today.

 

[Conehead]

the 400$ on Prott is considered the Provincial 968 or what?

Nope, it's a National.

 

[Zezima]

Nope, it's a National.

Well mine is also national but costs twice that amount.
It gets really confusing 3 different HL5 blades 3-5 W968 blade version etc...

Edit: so which one is the provincial one then?

 

[Conehead]

Well mine is also national but costs twice that amount.

As said already it is because you have a low batch/number (-2) which is a National Player version. And those are more expensive.

Edit: so which one is the provincial one then?

PROTT

 

[Zezima]

As said already it is because you have a low batch/number (-2) which is a National Player version. And those are more expensive.

PROTT

oh okey thanks. Crazy I wonder other than the naming what differs each of these versions. There really seems like up to 10 different versions with HL5 and W968 together

 

[Conehead]

Crazy I wonder other than the naming what differs each of these versions. There really seems like up to 10 different versions with HL5 and W968 together

Between HL3, HL5, HL5X, HL5A, HL5 Golden, Grand Slam, W968 Prov, W968 Nat, etc. you see more or less significant or less significant differences in:
- Ply composition
- Ply thickness
- Carbon layers
- Handle dimensions
- Wood quality

 

[Zezima]

Alright another 2h Training session behind me. The initial soft feeling is gone. I can feel a more harder feeling when hitting the balls. I also tried countertopspin from middistance against open up loops from my trainingspartner with a 80% success way higher than I expected. Too bad the rally was instantly over because he couldn't deal with that quality.
Again backhand was really good. Forehand got much much better. My biggest issue was missing the ball completly. I don't think its a blade issue because both my blades have almost identical weight +-2g.

Still wondering how it's gonna be if I get attacked constantly and being forced to block a lot. And also if I get nervous I will be in bigger trouble than before.

Also not sure if its my technique that I changed with this blade or overall I upped my game lately but I can clearly see that my quality in both FH and BH TS got upped by atleast 30-50%. Probably both.
Either way.

So far I have the feeling that I have found my blade and have lots of fun playing table tennis. Is that blade so much worth? Definetly not. Am I happy to receive it as a gift? Definetly. I can't even tell the others about my new blade being afraid that it might get stolen or something lol. I am very cautious now. It's like winning the lottery and not being able to tell anyone. I just say I got a new one without mentioning the price. They would also be like how stupid are you to pay so much for a blade (they would be not too wrong about that lol)..

I will try to film myself on Monday. Matchday will be on thursday so I got 2 trainingsessions left.

 

[rbtitco]

Alright another 2h Training session behind me. The initial soft feeling is gone. I can feel a more harder feeling when hitting the balls. I also tried countertopspin from middistance against open up loops from my trainingspartner with a 80% success way higher than I expected. Too bad the rally was instantly over because he couldn't deal with that quality.
Again backhand was really good. Forehand got much much better. My biggest issue was missing the ball completly. I don't think its a blade issue because both my blades have almost identical weight +-2g.

Still wondering how it's gonna be if I get attacked constantly and being forced to block a lot. And also if I get nervous I will be in bigger trouble than before.

Also not sure if its my technique that I changed with this blade or overall I upped my game lately but I can clearly see that my quality in both FH and BH TS got upped by atleast 30-50%. Probably both.
Either way.

So far I have the feeling that I have found my blade and have lots of fun playing table tennis. Is that blade so much worth? Definetly not. Am I happy to receive it as a gift? Definetly. I can't even tell the others about my new blade being afraid that it might get stolen or something lol. I am very cautious now. It's like winning the lottery and not being able to tell anyone. I just say I got a new one without mentioning the price. They would also be like how stupid are you to pay so much for a blade (they would be not too wrong about that lol)..

I will try to film myself on Monday. Matchday will be on thursday so I got 2 trainingsessions left.

Glad you like it.

 

[SFF_lib]

Between HL3, HL5, HL5X, HL5A, HL5 Golden, Grand Slam, W968 Prov, W968 Nat, etc. you see more or less significant or less significant differences in:
- Ply composition
- Ply thickness
- Carbon layers
- Handle dimensions
- Wood quality

Without the tt stars, DHS tt division could've bankrupted.

 

[Zezima]

Alright Feedback time.
I found myself a new club to play for in the highest League (LL) We will go through the official signings after 2 weeks so until then keep it for yourselves x).
It's farther away from me ~40min drive and they only train with 1 ball (I hope that changes in the near future) and no "system training" per se. Just warmup and then matches mainly. Not sure how they got so good.
So I played yesterday with my future teammate who I have beaten in the tournament before 3-0 and lost once 2-3 but both times he was exhausted. This time he was not and I lost 1-3 and 0-3. Short pips on the backhand and just generally I lost almost all points where I looped to his backhand where a normal shakehand player would struggle and only get a weak block back. But when I pushed to his FH he could loop parallel or spinny diagonal where I could only block back and then eventually lose the point because he has superb placement (almost always on the side white line or to the far edges)
The only thing that kept me in the game was when I was serving and then attacking his return so basically third ball attacks. When he gave me a weak but short ball back I did the same by looping or flicking controlled to the edges and then attacking the next ball harder.
Hardest part was not even his short pips on his backhand but the fact he has no good technique so I didn't know where he was gonna loop/ play the next ball. Lots of lifting my long backspin ball for example with fade motion and such and same when he uses his FH. He was also playing with a custom made prob 12mm thick balsa wood lol (twice as thick as a normal racket)

Anyway... he made me a bit insecure about my setup not being right for me (only my thoughts). When I am only reacting to the incoming balls I couldn't use my setups strength. But this also doesn't really sound that any other rubber for example would solve the problem. Unless I would be able to generate a bit more spin with a shorter stroke (due to not having time) and a bit more forgiving rubber than d09c?
I am not sure if I liked that thick balsa blades forehand because of the rubber or because of the blade combination aswell. I wonder if I should give it a try the rubber was:

Double Fish Volant-Phoenix​

Felt much easier to use. And its very cheap and doesn't need a booster about 10-15€.

I also find my forehand weird as hell in terms of needing like 15min to warm up to get to my forehand level when other players can do it within 3 ball exchanges?? Feels like I can't topspin at all in the beginning and it pisses me off that it takes so long. But in terms of spin and speed I am very happy with my current setup. My D09c looks very used and its been almost 6months now training atleast 4x a week. So it might be a good time to give another rubber a shot. Backhand opening is a bit hard still (I tend to open loops with a high arc but spinny and very rarely manage to loop with low arc and faster) but topspinning against block is very satisfying. So I don't want to make any changes there yet.
Next week we have our yearly club tournament. I will try to film the Final game atleast.

 

[Zezima]

ok forget the rubber I will not become an EJ and will stick to my equipment. I will not become an EJ!!