Westchester Table Tennis?

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What I gather is that the members of the club are not of the 8000 residents of the town, but of the greater NYC region.

Personally I would not be driving 1 or 2 hours just to play Table Tennis, but I guess those guys are really passionate.

I don't even want to drive 30 minutes.
Again it's a close suburb of NYC, it's bound to attract a lot of people living in a 1-2 hour radius of it which is a lot of people, far more than the few you think you'd get out of 8000 residents.

I use to drive 1 hour during rush hour to get to LATTA from Echo Park, now takes me 25-30 minutes from Pasadena. Still can't beat when I had the keys to my little town's club in France 5 minutes away.
 
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What I gather is that the members of the club are not of the 8000 residents of the town, but of the greater NYC region.

Personally I would not be driving 1 or 2 hours just to play Table Tennis, but I guess those guys are really passionate.

I don't even want to drive 30 minutes.
If you don't need to drive 30min-1hr+ one way to get to a club, consider yourself lucky.
 
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I used to live 15 minutes away from my club where I had 24-7 access. Now I moved to another state and I can only play on weekends and usually have to drive 40 minutes to play. I guess the lucky ones are the ones who never get their wills tested.
 
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Why is it so strong when it kinda seems to be in the middle of nowhere? I mean, I might expect LA or Bay Area or NYC to be strong.

Wikipedia says Pleasantville's population is under 8000 people.
La Romagne is roughly 1 587 people, still one of the best french and european club. I'm only 15 km far from la Romagne in a 8 000 people town, and our club is coached by... a La Romagne coach.

Hennebont is 15 000 people only... and they have Kristian Karlsson (ex champion's league and bundesliga winner with Dusseldorf, men's double world and euro champion).

Bear in mind table tennis is not a big sport worldwide, it's big only in China. So big cities think it's not worth investing in that sport.
 
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The problem with the US table tennis is: their business model is based on making money first, survival when you get national level coach that are maybe too much paid for the results they bring to the USATT, not growing talents. Pingpod can't be exported to Europe for instance: a french kid here only pays 50 to 100€ a whole year to get at least 3 hours of proper training with a national level coach + 4 to 5 hours of playing with dozens of others players. League and single official tournaments included. EDIT: of course, it's per week.

Yes... I know that our coaches are not fancy names like Matilda Ekholm, but guess what ? France is the 3rd best nation for youth players now. Paying 100 bucks for only 1h of coaching with a national level coach is a total nonsense, who can afford that even in the US ?

When I was at University I had 3 hours a week of proper training with a national level coach, and I had only 150 francs (23€ !) to pay for the whole year for the University, and 100 francs (15 €) to pay to my club and the FFTT to play the official team and single leagues and tournaments. It was in the late 80's/early 90's, when France was in top 3 best nations of the world.

It's not rocket science, if you really want a sport to be big, start by making it accessible to all.
 
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La Romagne is roughly 1 587 people, still one of the best french and european club. I'm only 15 km far from la Romagne in a 8 000 people town, and our club is coached by... a La Romagne coach.

Hennebont is 15 000 people only... and they have Kristian Karlsson (ex champion's league and bundesliga winner with Dusseldorf, men's double world and euro champion).

Bear in mind table tennis is not a big sport worldwide, it's big only in China. So big cities think it's not worth investing in that sport.
That's cool you live near La Romagne!

I used to drive 2 hours to attend pro matches at Hennebont, saw Boll, Pitchford, Freitas, Falck, Assar, Karlsson, Franziska, Jorgic, Ruiz and many more play in the old cramped up hall, and moved back to the US before they opened their new state-of-the-art training center. Missed out on seeing Kreanga, Chuang Chih-Yuan and Chen Chien-An.
 
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The problem with the US table tennis is: their business model is based on making money first, survival when you get national level coach that are maybe too much paid for the results they bring to the USATT, not growing talents. Pingpod can't be exported to Europe for instance: a french kid here only pays 50 to 100€ a whole year to get at least 3 hours of proper training with a national level coach + 4 to 5 hours of playing with dozens of others players. League and single official tournaments included.

Yes... I know that our coaches are not fancy names like Matilda Ekholm, but guess what ? France is the 3rd best nation for youth players now. Paying 100 bucks for only 1h of coaching with a national level coach is a total nonsense, who can afford that even in the US ?

When I was at University I had 3 hours a week of proper training with a national level coach, and I had only 150 francs (23€ !) to pay for the whole year for the University, and 100 francs (15 €) to pay to my club and the FFTT to play the official team and single leagues and tournaments. It was in the late 80's/early 90's, when France was in top 3 best nations of the world.

It's not rocket science, if you really want a sport to be big, start by making it accessible to all.
True, and the lack of a national and state system means you don't have a pyramidal structure to growing players and the sport.

I like the ability to go to a nice TT-only facility with 16 tables and many players anytime during the day here, but it doesn't make up for the quality free small groups coaching I was getting in France twice a week with the coach and best players of my club. Plus the teams competition and singles every weekend really keeps you on your toes and forces you to get better fast if you want to move up to a better division.

I paid $150 a year for all that and open play in France, insurance included (kids $50-75). Now $450 a year for open-play only, $30 per event if I want to play a tournament once or twice a month, $10 each time I want to play a round robin, and good coaching would be $65 an hour... it's insane. If I didn't have a decent enough foundation already and good practice partners to run quality practice sessions with like we did in Europe, I would not be able to keep up.

Also, the youth in France were far better than the youth are in the US, yet most played much less than the average youth here and only trained in group settings. The technique and levels of spin and speed they develop with ALL+ blades and slow rubbers is on another level.
 
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That's cool you live near La Romagne!

I used to drive 2 hours to attend pro matches at Hennebont, saw Boll, Pitchford, Freitas, Falck, Assar, Karlsson, Franziska, Jorgic, Ruiz and many more play in the old cramped up hall, and moved back to the US before they opened their new state-of-the-art training center. Missed out on seeing Kreanga, Chuang Chih-Yuan and Chen Chien-An.
The Hennebont pingcenter will be available only this year, and it's good news for France cos' now it will be able to host top WTT tournaments. Europe has to host at least a Grand Smash tournament, the biggest event. WTT does not respect us. That's a fact.
 
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What I gather is that the members of the club are not of the 8000 residents of the town, but of the greater NYC region.

Personally I would not be driving 1 or 2 hours just to play Table Tennis, but I guess those guys are really passionate.

I don't even want to drive 30 minutes.
Every person is different.
In college I had the opportunity to train with the 🇨🇱 National Team. My routine for 2 years was:
College: 8 am to 3 pm
Bus travel: 3:30 pm to 5:30 pm
Training: 5:30 pm to 10:30 pm
Travel back: 12:30 am at Home


I figured out to rest or study during Travel.
So, buddy if you want to reach a dream, you have to do an extra mile compared to other people.
Since a year ago, I drive from Orange Country to San Diego weekly just for training with Coach Stellan.
You said "Those guys are really passionate. I don't even want to drive 30 minutes" Ohhh boy.
I'm pretty sure with a different thinking mindset, you will be a different player, person, etc.
If you're not passionate for something, you will be average/lower in everything.
You're on time to change that, and take off to the moon Bro.
 
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Every person is different.
In college I had the opportunity to train with the 🇨🇱 National Team. My routine for 2 years was:
College: 8 am to 3 pm
Bus travel: 3:30 pm to 5:30 pm
Training: 5:30 pm to 10:30 pm
Travel back: 12:30 am at Home


I figured out to rest or study during Travel.
So, buddy if you want to reach a dream, you have to do an extra mile compared to other people.
Since a year ago, I drive from Orange Country to San Diego weekly just for training with Coach Stellan.
You said "Those guys are really passionate. I don't even want to drive 30 minutes" Ohhh boy.
I'm pretty sure with a different thinking mindset, you will be a different player, person, etc.
If you're not passionate for something, you will be average/lower in everything.
You're on time to change that, and take off to the moon Bro.
Not untrue, but money is also a huge factor in the US.
 
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It's one of the biggest clubs in the country and they often throw big tournaments with big cash prizes, they even invite foreign players from time to time.

A few USA national team members train there as well as ex-provincial players from China...

All DHS rainbow tables, the very best!
Absolutely! Owner and founder Will Shortz has a genuine love for the sport and created this great facility to express that love. Thing is Will's creation is also a gift to us! It's apparent that Will is happy to share his creation and watch players of all levels engage in their passion. Anyone who lives within driving distance is very fortunate to be able to utilize the Westchester Table Tennis Center.
 
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Not untrue, but money is also a huge factor in the US.
THIS, you're a seasoned pro already Victor, plus: a national team one! Maybe you have a scholarship, maybe your national association/federation helps you ? here we're talking about bringing a sport to another level and growing talent, specially kids. Without youth talents playing worldwide events or decent leagues, you don't go anywhere, without making a sport accessible by making it affordable, you won't attract people.
 
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Absolutely! Owner and founder Will Shortz has a genuine love for the sport and created this great facility to express that love. Thing is Will's creation is also a gift to us! It's apparent that Will is happy to share his creation and watch players of all levels engage in their passion. Anyone who lives within driving distance is very fortunate to be able to utilize the Westchester Table Tennis Center.
Maybe, but he has to be rich, right ?

 
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All the jokers on the forum who WISH that TT would be inexpensive to run and that the government has an obligation to pay the lion's share of a TT club's expenses (facilities/power/heat/water/maintenance) (by providingg the facility and upkeeping it) either have their head up their azz real deep or are very naive. (which is the same as have that head rammed way up the arse)

I would really like to see these kind try to open a TT club in USA and make it work.

The reality is that to run a club in any urban area in USA, you need a lot of capital to start with, plus a lot of expenses to handle. Only those with capital and good success running it huge can make it... or an insanely rich person who can write off huge losses will run a club. Why?

It will cost $1-2 USD per sq ft of leased space per month and that same amount for utility bills... not including the $200,000 USD it would take to get flooring, lighting and tables at a minimum for a 20 table operation. You need 20,000+ sq ft to do 15 tables right and more for training tables. More like 25,000 sq ft minimum, so that you would need to have TT club generate $5000,000 - $700,000 USD per year minimum to operate the facility barebones and keep it alive... and that is also paying your coaches too cheep.

What does that look like? That is members pay $100 a month to play there... and you need 250+ of them to get $25,000 a month... then another 100 kids/adults taking 1 hr lesson a week x 4 weeks per month at $60-$100 USD a month to generate another $20,000-$30,000 a month... and that might not be enough to stay in operation.

What usually happens is some good player makes an agreement with a community center to setup table 1-2 times a week for a few hours on some evening(s) and that that is it. If you have to provide your own facility, it is pretty much cost prohibitive, unless you are lucky to be around a lot of foreigners in USA who are willing to shell out huge money to train their kids (like they do in LA and San Fransisco)

There are a few long term success running TT clubs in USA not in these areas (Samson, Maryland, Houston, NYISC, Westchester, Triangle (and Triangle almost didn't make it).
 
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The problem with the US table tennis is: their business model is based on making money first, survival when you get national level coach that are maybe too much paid for the results they bring to the USATT, not growing talents. Pingpod can't be exported to Europe for instance: a french kid here only pays 50 to 100€ a whole year to get at least 3 hours of proper training with a national level coach + 4 to 5 hours of playing with dozens of others players. League and single official tournaments included. EDIT: of course, it's per week.

Yes... I know that our coaches are not fancy names like Matilda Ekholm, but guess what ? France is the 3rd best nation for youth players now. Paying 100 bucks for only 1h of coaching with a national level coach is a total nonsense, who can afford that even in the US ?

When I was at University I had 3 hours a week of proper training with a national level coach, and I had only 150 francs (23€ !) to pay for the whole year for the University, and 100 francs (15 €) to pay to my club and the FFTT to play the official team and single leagues and tournaments. It was in the late 80's/early 90's, when France was in top 3 best nations of the world.

It's not rocket science, if you really want a sport to be big, start by making it accessible to all.

One of the clubs i know in Paris gets 3000 or 5000 (i can't remember the exact number) euros a month from the government. The best team is only in regional.
They got gov venue (no rent).
I doubt these US based clubs get a dime from the government and need to cover costs.
If US club don't do it based on business, then, whose money will it burn if it only charge 100 Euro a year?

You can't compare the two.

In South Africa, guess what, its free to play table tennis.
the coaches would also go and pick you up, play table tennis, feed you, and drop you home. The coaches doesn't earn a dime, but need to throw money in. Its so accessible, is that good for the sport? NO. Because no other kid will want to be a coach.

Taiwan, I would say is 3rd best, Guess France is better then.
Who is 1st and 2nd?
According to a couple of high profile European, I heard one of them rate Taiwan as high as number 1, even higher than China in the cadet level in terms of system and structure.

TT generally cost around 100USD a month for the school team (train around 15 to 25 hours a week)
It is common for better players to have extra 1-on-1 training that would cost around 30usd per hour for national level player. Its normal for the parents to spend 300 to 600 USD a month while you are still in elementary age.

Taipei (New Taipei City and Taipei) jointly has 6-7 million people. At a tournament (only allowed to enter in your age group), there is almost 3000 entries for 4 age groups. Grade 6,5,4,3 basically.
The better kids will go, the not so good won't take part.
Its normal for a school to have 30-50 kids players and half to a third taking parts.
There are tons of schools and tons of jobs for coaches (in the thousands)

I guesstimate, the playing population (of school teams only) in the greater Taipei area to be 10000 kids.
Top US players like Erica Wu, Sally Moyland are just some examples of those that was developed from such system.
Table tennis is more expensive than other expensive extra murals.
 
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without making a sport accessible by making it affordable, you won't attract people.

Do you have any idea how much money it costs for your to groom a world champion in China?
From the parents pocket, until the player is good enough for the gov to take over?

End of the day, someone is paying.
Its either the parents, or the tax payers (which comes from every one at the end of the day)

In China, sadly, with fractions, its not only about how much money you can put in that red envelope for the coaches. But also how strong the coaches background is. That is why so many leave and end up still being good enough to beat the Chinese - since they didn't fall into that "main group" in China.
 
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All that because capitalism ruins sports, simple as that, as an american you probably don't like a socialist system right? but guess what ? a socialist system makes a city council invest the taxes you pay in sport arenas, oh sorry... you don't like that ugly word "taxes" dontcha ? this is exactly why the Deltona's city council in Florida stoppped recycling, it costed only 1€ more per inhabitant, but as you american dreamers don't like "taxes", now your garbage is thrown in landfills near your homes.


My taxes pay for my local club arena, for my healthcare, for the FFTT to grow youth talents, for recycling, and so on ! and I'm fine with it, cos' at the end of the day, it doesn't cost that much even for poor families to bring their talented kids. They don't need a scholarship for football (the real one of course) is their kid is talented, see what I mean ? That's why a little country with so few inhabitants compared to the US have much more world champions in any team sport combined.

Some say that if Dassault had the same budget as NASA, they would have already land on Mars decades ago. You have so much money and are so much cheap that the simple word "tax" is making you crazy... poor you !

 
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All the jokers on the forum who WISH that TT would be inexpensive to run and that the government has an obligation to pay the lion's share of a TT club's expenses (facilities/power/heat/water/maintenance) (by providingg the facility and upkeeping it) either have their head up their azz real deep or are very naive. (which is the same as have that head rammed way up the arse)

I would really like to see these kind try to open a TT club in USA and make it work.

The reality is that to run a club in any urban area in USA, you need a lot of capital to start with, plus a lot of expenses to handle. Only those with capital and good success running it huge can make it... or an insanely rich person who can write off huge losses will run a club. Why?

It will cost $1-2 USD per sq ft of leased space per month and that same amount for utility bills... not including the $200,000 USD it would take to get flooring, lighting and tables at a minimum for a 20 table operation. You need 20,000+ sq ft to do 15 tables right and more for training tables. More like 25,000 sq ft minimum, so that you would need to have TT club generate $5000,000 - $700,000 USD per year minimum to operate the facility barebones and keep it alive... and that is also paying your coaches too cheep.

What does that look like? That is members pay $100 a month to play there... and you need 250+ of them to get $25,000 a month... then another 100 kids/adults taking 1 hr lesson a week x 4 weeks per month at $60-$100 USD a month to generate another $20,000-$30,000 a month... and that might not be enough to stay in operation.

What usually happens is some good player makes an agreement with a community center to setup table 1-2 times a week for a few hours on some evening(s) and that that is it. If you have to provide your own facility, it is pretty much cost prohibitive, unless you are lucky to be around a lot of foreigners in USA who are willing to shell out huge money to train their kids (like they do in LA and San Fransisco)

There are a few long term success running TT clubs in USA not in these areas (Samson, Maryland, Houston, NYISC, Westchester, Triangle (and Triangle almost didn't make it).

There is no perfect model. I've monitored TT in over 20 countries. Both east and west.

I do hope every country can copy the US model (survive on your own model)

Because if you wait for gov handouts and only survive based on them.... then the sport will die overnight the moment that funding is gone.
 
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