What happened between the USA and KAZ controversial match at the WTTTC Finals 2023?

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I've been saying this for 15 years. If you can't consistently and reliably utilize the controls enforcing the rule to ban boosters, remove the rule and just allow them. It's embarrassing. 80% or more of the rackets at the event are boosted. Rubbers come from the factory boosted. Rubbers given to players by sponsors are boosted. All the players accept boosting as a truth. It's been this way since right after the glue ban and it will continue to be this way in perpetuity.

I agree

There is just no ways to police it.

glue ban is for "heath" and pressure from UN/IOC with UN sustainability policy
booster (voc free etc) does not fall into that health
so it is really just "control", but no one can control it.

You can have thickness infraction without using booster (ie, if you put 10 layers of glue, it will be too thick too)

with KTS in 1995, someone said, his "speed glue" doesn't add to the speed of his footwork.
even with a "legal" speed glue racket, he would of still won, as he was just too fast.

 

[TensorBackhand]

i'm not sure if you know, your question is just so open ended

how much of 1 layer did you put?
your 1 layer could be more than my 3 layer.....

since you test so many equipment out and boost and what not, why don't you do the measurements and let people know
i'm sure a lot of people will be interested in your findings.

also note, since rubbers will "Shrink" back into its smaller shape, the longer you put it, the thinner it will become

right, obviously if you put thick layers then the sponge may expand more. I just want to know a general ballpark. Are we talking about 0.01mm? or are we talking about 0.3mm?

Like human beings are generally between 1.6m and 2m. They will never be 4m tall.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Like human beings are generally between 1.6m and 2m. They will never be 4m tall.

1.6m to 2m is a 25% range

boosting can easily be 100%+ range

i for example, like to make sure my rubber is settled before putting on
next person, maybe will put it on 8 hours before "my idea time".
his sponge will be thicker than mine, due to my longer settling

so again, I'm not sure if you really understand the picture, because we are not just talking 25% range
give you an idea. look at what usatt said, and within a day, that "range" is gone. look at the percentage change by 1 day of settling

 

[ben1229]

Thank you for your reply. Now I feel better about boosting my ESN rubber and Butterfly rubber too! Lol. I often buy a set of rubbers and literally won't take them out to be put on like a year later. I always feel a layer of booster makes me feel better to make the rubber be more lively. Well, I guess, I am not the only one!

You are not the only one.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You are not the only one.

you know,
I am actually making a video about boosting
and the whole USA-KAZ came into it and I was thinking, maybe I should delay my video. haha

in my video, I will talk about the benefits of boosting, other than for the purpose of "unfair" advantage.
unused old rubber like JJ NG talked about, or what 2nd/3rd/4th hand old shrink rubbers in the hands of poor kids, after a layer of booster, the rubber can have some more life before getting thrown away.

Smoking is terrible, 2nd hand smoke is worse, but it is legal. they made it legal so they can control the ingredients and the specs.
They should just make booster legal, and just make sure the ingredients are "safe".
So everyone can use boosters in a safe manner.

as of right now, booster usage and passing thickness test does happen hundred folds over failed ones.

 

[NextLevel]

you know,
I am actually making a video about boosting
and the whole USA-KAZ came into it and I was thinking, maybe I should delay my video. haha

in my video, I will talk about the benefits of boosting, other than for the purpose of "unfair" advantage.
unused old rubber like JJ NG talked about, or what 2nd/3rd/4th hand old shrink rubbers in the hands of poor kids, after a layer of booster, the rubber can have some more life before getting thrown away.

Smoking is terrible, 2nd hand smoke is worse, but it is legal. they made it legal so they can control the ingredients and the specs.
They should just make booster legal, and just make sure the ingredients are "safe".
So everyone can use boosters in a safe manner.

as of right now, booster usage and passing thickness test does happen hundred folds over failed ones.

That would hurt ESN and Butterfly business model like speed glue did.

 

[ben1229]

you know,
I am actually making a video about boosting
and the whole USA-KAZ came into it and I was thinking, maybe I should delay my video. haha

in my video, I will talk about the benefits of boosting, other than for the purpose of "unfair" advantage.
unused old rubber like JJ NG talked about, or what 2nd/3rd/4th hand old shrink rubbers in the hands of poor kids, after a layer of booster, the rubber can have some more life before getting thrown away.

Smoking is terrible, 2nd hand smoke is worse, but it is legal. they made it legal so they can control the ingredients and the specs.
They should just make booster legal, and just make sure the ingredients are "safe".
So everyone can use boosters in a safe manner.

as of right now, booster usage and passing thickness test does happen hundred folds over failed ones.

Make the video, wanna see it so bad.

 

[Matt Hetherington]

ITTF have rejected the contest raised by USATT

 

[TensorBackhand]

1.6m to 2m is a 25% range

boosting can easily be 100%+ range

i for example, like to make sure my rubber is settled before putting on
next person, maybe will put it on 8 hours before "my idea time".
his sponge will be thicker than mine, due to my longer settling

so again, I'm not sure if you really understand the picture, because we are not just talking 25% range
give you an idea. look at what usatt said, and within a day, that "range" is gone. look at the percentage change by 1 day of settling

Even if the range is 100%, thats fine, but what is it in mm?

0.05 to 0.1mm?

Or .1mm to .2mm?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

ITTF have rejected the contest raised by USATT

View attachment 28495

I put these 2 clauses in my latest video haha, of which Bruce used for his post
that explained the whole procedure

however, I don't see anywhere on how or when ITTF and communication on the matter comes into play. Do they wait for the end of the match (match 4) or do they wait for the end of the total matches or can they call on the team manager any moment and inform of the infraction (ie during Match 4 when the result was already out)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Even if the range is 100%, thats fine, but what is it in mm?

0.05 to 0.1mm?

Or .1mm to .2mm?

i think you are still asking silly questions
its all based on the build up on how you boost and put the rubber on

your question is like this:

I have a 20L bag, and I full it with apples.
how many apples are in there?
stupid question right?

Jishan at testing failed by 0.19mm
when it was glued on, it would be more than 0.19mm, the next day it was within legal limit, so it came down by atleast 0.15mm

I can glue to about 0.05mm and I can also glue to 0.20mm, or one time when I was rushed, it was maybe even 0.25mm
If you can't understand how I got those numbers, then it just means you don't really know what boosting is

each player should know his equipment well enough and know booster inside out. It isn't just making the rubber bouncy

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

That would hurt ESN and Butterfly business model like speed glue did.

since you know of the space I am in.
there are more players using booster than not

the players still change rubbers monthly to bimonthly (with or without boosting)
I won't say it hurts ESN or Butterfly business, i'm sure they are loving the high replacement rate in Taiwan.

Even DHS HQ staff told me in person, he was surprised with the amount of H3 provincials going to Taiwan on a yearly basis.

What I couldn't get is, the amount of booster going to Taiwan, that would be a nice stat. haha

 

[TensorBackhand]

i think you are still asking silly questions
its all based on the build up on how you boost and put the rubber on

your question is like this:

I have a 20L bag, and I full it with apples.
how many apples are in there?
stupid question right?

Jishan at testing failed by 0.19mm
when it was glued on, it would be more than 0.19mm, the next day it was within legal limit, so it came down by atleast 0.15mm

I can glue to about 0.05mm and I can also glue to 0.20mm, or one time when I was rushed, it was maybe even 0.25mm
If you can't understand how I got those numbers, then it just means you don't really know what boosting is

each player should know his equipment well enough and know booster inside out. It isn't just making the rubber bouncy

I would guess you could put about 10 large apples into a 20L bag...

For small apples, you could probably put 15-20. That's just me visualizing it. But if I have tried to put apples into the bag and counted, I could easily tell you the exact number of large and small apples. Then you would have a range, of, for example, 10-20 apples into the bag. But it would never be 80 apples.

I don't care if the range is large, I just want to know the rough range of how much the 2 layers of booster would add to the sponge thickness.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I would guess you could put about 10 large apples into a 20L bag...

For small apples, you could probably put 15-20. That's just me visualizing it. But if I have tried to put apples into the bag and counted, I could easily tell you the exact number of large and small apples. Then you would have a range, of, for example, 10-20 apples into the bag. But it would never be 80 apples.

I don't care if the range is large, I just want to know the rough range of how much the 2 layers of booster would add to the sponge thickness.

so tell me, what is the ratio between 2 heavy loads of booster at 6 hours apart and total wait time of 12 hours
versus 2 light loads of 12 hour first 1st and 24 for 2nd, allowing min 36 hour to maybe even 48 hours.
what is the percentage different of that? or just give me mm difference.

I suggest you should take 2 of the same rubber and go do this and tell me your findings.
you may just learn something

 

[TensorBackhand]

so tell me, what is the ratio between 2 heavy loads of booster at 6 hours apart and total wait time of 12 hours
versus 2 light loads of 12 hour first 1st and 24 for 2nd, allowing min 36 hour to maybe even 48 hours.
what is the percentage different of that? or just give me mm difference.

I suggest you should take 2 of the same rubber and go do this and tell me your findings.
you may just learn something

That's fine, assuming 2 different people boost differently by waiting 12 hours vs 48 hours. What is the range of outcomes?

I know its not 2mm (ie, the sponge won't double in thickness). I think its probably not 1mm (sponge grows 50% in size). So is the range 0.01mm to 0.2mm? or is it even more specific?

Can the sponge expand 0.2mm? Again, I literally have no idea how much the sponge expands so I just would like a rough range of possibilities.

 

[ben1229]

That's fine, assuming 2 different people boost differently by waiting 12 hours vs 48 hours. What is the range of outcomes?

I know its not 2mm (ie, the sponge won't double in thickness). I think its probably not 1mm (sponge grows 50% in size). So is the range 0.01mm to 0.2mm? or is it even more specific?

Can the sponge expand 0.2mm? Again, I literally have no idea how much the sponge expands so I just would like a rough range of possibilities.

Max 3 light layers of seamon on a H3, Nat BS 41, after 72 hours less than 1.5MM

 

[TensorBackhand]

Max 3 light layers of seamon on a H3, Nat BS 41, after 72 hours less than 1.5MM

1.5mm!? Are you serious?? That would be a monstrous looking sponge.

Do you mean 0.15mm?

 

[ben1229]

1.5mm!? Are you serious?? That would be a monstrous looking sponge.

Do you mean 0.15mm?

.15MM，lol, typo