What is Table Tennis England Doing?

[logicalthinking]

I’m not one to bash Table Tennis England as i know they have their hands tied by lots of factors but can anyone see anything positive they have done recently?


World Team Cup
Yes, the World Team cup is in England but that’s hundreds of thousands of pounds to run where is that money coming from (remember they don’t have any money) so is our membership money paying for this?
The event was very late to be advertised as i knew months before Table Tennis England released the information as it was on the ITTF calendar.

Not only that it clashes with VNL and VBL which is hundreds of Table Tennis England membership who might like to have watched or for Table Tennis England to have sold tickets to make some sort of money back

the cost is far too high for anyone more than a few hours away from London to go and see by the time you have factored in Travel, meals and hotels, not a bargain.
Ranking List – Lack of results
THIS IS THERE JOB, If didn’t do my job id get sacked!!!
Its not like the results coming in would be a surprise, there is a calendar which has been there for months.
Why have a ranking policy and protocol if its then not going to be used.
“Major changes in the new system are:

• We now operate on a single fixed season of 1st August to 31st July.
• Results will be applied from the date of the tournament and no longer from the period the results are entered in.
• Improvements have been made to decrease the amount of time it takes to achieve a new rating and appear on the lists.
• Input errors, when corrected, are recalculated from the date of the tournament, leading to more accurate ratings for all.”

How can it be accurate if results are not entered?
Like it or not the ranking list is a mayor selling point to young beginners, it’s tangible evidence of their improvement and hard work and works as part of goals they would like to achieve.
Now lots of young players who have worked hard, and many have been waiting nearly a month (from the first NCL and NJL) to see their name come on the ranking list have been deprived of their moment of glory, that feeling of achievement and pride and now going in to a period where many clubs have to shut due to facilities are having two weeks off with a negative experience.
Anyone with any experience of running clubs know you have two weeks off you loose young players but to then add in that negative experience will hit clubs.
I emailed the ranking department about results from the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] of November to get an email back saying any results after the 25[SUP]th[/SUP] had not been entered.
Clearly the staff had taken the time to read by email as it was about results ten days before the cut off date.


i just don’t see how they are moving the sport anywhere at the minute and IMO the feeling towards the association is at an all-time low with even the most avid supporters asking questions

I have a lot more other issues with Table Tennis England but would be interested to hear if anyone has any positive experiences recently

 

[vvk1]

IMHO, it is unlikely TTE has any/much say in determining the dates for the World Team Cup. Venue availability was probably the main factor. So blaming them for it is unfair.

Same for the ticket prices. TTE members did get an early bird discount. As to the cost of travel/hotel stay/etc - again, the TTE is not to blame for it.

However, I do agree with you regarding how long it takes for tournament results to appear on the official ranking/rating lists. They could/should do better in that regard. Most likely, the reasons are the usual things:

* the entire process is paper based, duh. And have you seen the carbon copies mandated to be used in county events?
* tournament organizers are often volunteers and are fairly overwhelmed during the tournaments and do have a life outside of tournament days.
* results are sent by cheapest regular post to TTE, sometimes weeks after the event
* the ranking department is understaffed, and entering each match result by hand must be quite time consuming

I'd also like the results ("player audit trail") to be publicly visible/searchable at least on the same level as ratingscentral and be simply a section on tabletennis365.com.

 

[logicalthinking]

Your right the ITTF has control over the calendar and chose the dates.

My issue is the fact this was known for months yet didn’t do anything in regard to looking to ease the clash and allowing the VBL/VNL to attend by moving the date for the domestic event.

Not ideal but more manageable then re arranging an ITTF event. Just no thinking past one event and for the wider membership.

As for your comments re can’t be blamed for the cost I’m sorry I don’t agree. Yes they did offer a early bird discount good idea and support that and now there starting to panic, offers are coming up left right and centre to make sure they sell tickets. I have sources that tell me Thursday and Friday have roughly 80% of tickets still available I’m not sure how much truth is in that admittedly but I have no reason to doubt it.

But Table Tennis England ultimately have control over the prices and familys past the midlands can’t attend realistically without spending over £150 per day. Less without an overnight stay.

Ranking, your right events are done by volunteers but 99% of the paperwork for the event is done simply by the event running eg wall charts and singles sheets which make up 99% of what they need only thing after the event is the reporting which doesn’t take that much as it’s mostly numbers and money for Table Tennis England

The organisars now have to commit to sending the results in within a week (I think it’s a week) or face sanctions (scary right hahah)

We run multiple national events each year and always get the results in by the Tuesday or weds after. There is also a way of sending the results in via a excel spreadsheet which some referees use, which saves everyone a lot of time and effort and is used to run the event during the day.

But dispite having been promised some soft wear to allow this to happen for over 10 years we still don’t have anything.

maybe they are understaffed, but they knew the number of tournaments in that period and how many NCL and NJL there are as all that information is on the calendar and NCL/NJL again is at the office

So why did this not get picked up?

There no money to hire a temp admin staff yet the players pay a ranking Levi to cover the cost for the data to be entered but there’s too many results to be entered meaning more income from Levi’s!

 

[Lermanator]

Be happy guys you have 3 men in the top 200. The U.S. has zero. We envy you.

 

[NDH]

OK..... My first piece is intended for the non UK players (or players who don't know how Table Tennis in England is run).

Like many other European countries, we have a very big "league" system, which all filters down from TTE (Table Tennis England).

There are "Grand Prix" events on certain weekends (a tournament for anyone to enter - The matches are based on a ranking system, so you'll play in a group of similar ranked players, and then if you win the group, you play in the knock out stages).

These are one off tournaments staged at different locations throughout the year.

Senior British League is also a weekend thing - and this is deemed to be the highest level of competition in a league format (teams only play 4 weekends per year).

Then you have "local league" - Which is what the majority of players in the UK play. You can play in multiple local leagues, as "usually" the matches are on different nights of the week. In my local vicinity (within 30 miles), I have 6 different local leagues I could play in (I only play in 2/3).

All of this is run by TTE - But there are a lot of disgruntled players who don't like the hierarchy of TTE (one of them clearly went out of their way to create a new TableTennisDaily user, and moan about them to the world).

Some of the complaints are legitimate - Some are "older" players harking back to the "good old days" of the 1950's......

Either way - Hopefully that gives people an understanding of what "some" UK players think.

To respond to the actual topic at hand.......

I'm not sure I can support any of what you've said.... It costs too much?? It cost me about 60 quid to book for 3 people to watch the entire final day! I couldn't get a decent football ticket for 1 person for that - This is the WORLD CUP FINAL.

Moaning about travel/hotels? Seriously? Maybe if you ask nicely, TTE will move the matches to your local sports hall.....

This is being played in one of the UK's premier multi sport locations! It was built specifically for the 2012 Olympics.

The tickets are ridiculously cheap for what you get.

You may have a point about the vets tournaments that week.... But the calendar is absolutely stacked as it is - Make your decision.

Lastly.... For anyone outside of the UK wondering...... The annual membership we have to pay is a staggering, a monumental, a gargantuan...... £14.00 per year........ Let that sink in...... £1.17 per month, to become registered with TTE, and be eligible to enter local leagues!

How anyone can complain about that, is beyond me!

Maybe £14 was expensive in 1950 - Not today.......

 

[Lermanator]

I’m not one to bash Table Tennis England as i know they have their hands tied by lots of factors but can anyone see anything positive they have done recently?


World Team Cup
Yes, the World Team cup is in England but that’s hundreds of thousands of pounds to run where is that money coming from (remember they don’t have any money) so is our membership money paying for this?
The event was very late to be advertised as i knew months before Table Tennis England released the information as it was on the ITTF calendar.

Not only that it clashes with VNL and VBL which is hundreds of Table Tennis England membership who might like to have watched or for Table Tennis England to have sold tickets to make some sort of money back

the cost is far too high for anyone more than a few hours away from London to go and see by the time you have factored in Travel, meals and hotels, not a bargain.
Ranking List – Lack of results
THIS IS THERE JOB, If didn’t do my job id get sacked!!!
Its not like the results coming in would be a surprise, there is a calendar which has been there for months.
Why have a ranking policy and protocol if its then not going to be used.
“Major changes in the new system are:

• We now operate on a single fixed season of 1st August to 31st July.
• Results will be applied from the date of the tournament and no longer from the period the results are entered in.
• Improvements have been made to decrease the amount of time it takes to achieve a new rating and appear on the lists.
• Input errors, when corrected, are recalculated from the date of the tournament, leading to more accurate ratings for all.”

How can it be accurate if results are not entered?
Like it or not the ranking list is a mayor selling point to young beginners, it’s tangible evidence of their improvement and hard work and works as part of goals they would like to achieve.
Now lots of young players who have worked hard, and many have been waiting nearly a month (from the first NCL and NJL) to see their name come on the ranking list have been deprived of their moment of glory, that feeling of achievement and pride and now going in to a period where many clubs have to shut due to facilities are having two weeks off with a negative experience.
Anyone with any experience of running clubs know you have two weeks off you loose young players but to then add in that negative experience will hit clubs.
I emailed the ranking department about results from the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] of November to get an email back saying any results after the 25[SUP]th[/SUP] had not been entered.
Clearly the staff had taken the time to read by email as it was about results ten days before the cut off date.


i just don’t see how they are moving the sport anywhere at the minute and IMO the feeling towards the association is at an all-time low with even the most avid supporters asking questions

I have a lot more other issues with Table Tennis England but would be interested to hear if anyone has any positive experiences recently

USATT has that problem of taking forever to process results. They make mistakes and then have to correct them. However, they've gotten better after firing the woman in charge of it and using a new software.

 

[logicalthinking]

NDH. firstly you have not thought about the bigger picture, and your tone is unnecessarily hostile and infers stupidity and selfishness on my part yet offers a very narrow point of view and no thought of the bigger picture of table tennis in the England.
As for several of your personal comments towards me are firstly “very Mature” and also factually incorrect.


Having spent months speaking to table tennis England personally and having them engage in a conversation before not doing anything has lead me to ask if anyone can correct me and see if there are any positive story’s out there and prove me wrong – which I was hoping for, so I can see light at the end of the tunnel not merely to just bash them.

I have nothing against the hierarchy of table tennis England or its governance what I want to see is some development happening and not the general membership being mistreated.


With millions of pounds being spent of projects like Ping, Loop and now the Team World cup where is the investment in the day to day players in the sport, such as those in the local leagues? Or those playing a higher level like Grand Prix’s and British League or even some investments in the clubs that volunteers spent hours and hours running and developing the next generation of players which are currently coming into a system that is not fit for purpose with its 1950s infrastructure and small mindedness


This hasn’t happened for many years, if we want to be a serious table tennis country at all levels not just Elite level we need to invest at grass route level and give members something for there money


For this to happen we will need to pay more than £14 but many local league players complain at having to pay that much. With their point being What do I get for my money?


The membership is cheap at £14 I agree and Table Tennis England fights to keep this low but Honestly what do YOU personally get for this?


Local league is run entirely separately and is not a part of a “Big League System” the leagues must affiliate to Table tennis England but is not controlled by table tennis England only governed from a distance

an example of this was the new plastic balls which Table Tennis Implemented as compulsory in its leagues, yet many leagues didn’t use the new ball for as many as two years after it was added to the laws. League control their own formats and organisation.


Table Tennis England has no jurisdiction in local league matters unless it’s a safeguarding issue.

Which you also must pay extra to play in with league fees


The British League – entirely separate from local league – To play in this again you need to pay extra to upgrade from your normal membership to a player licence a further £22 (again not bank breaking) plus the £500 entry fee.

Grand Prix’s cost over £60 just to play, which could be as few as 10 matches (if all 4 events have groups of 3 and you lose them all) worse-case scenario you’re paying £6 per match which could be less than 20 minutes. With the extra costs of travel, hotels, meals etc where applicable. And to correct your post winners and runner ups go through to knock out stages.


So, the £14 to join is cheap but to play more than in a church hall a few times a week it not so cheap.


Judging by your words your attending the World Team Cup and I’m sure like many you will be supporting the England Teams hoping for another great result’s like Rio and the Worlds.


But wouldn’t you like to see England competing year after year and not having to enjoy the window of opportunity where we have 3 world class male players able to compete with the best players in the world?

Without investment in development of the sport this won’t happen for another large number of years.

when was the last time we have a team of truly world class players? Back to Des and Carl Prean maybe?

For those of us who have played at a National and International level we want to see a professional league structure which filters down to local league build around proper clubs like they do in Germany and France for example. Where the league starts locally and goes regionally and up to nationally in effect.


This provides players a clear pathway for players of all ages to move up at the rate at that improve and not have to travel as far to get competitive matches but also provide aims for players to reach the next level without the huge step from some local leagues to British league.


I recently read a story about a player recently losing there first local league match in 6 years an achievement yes but what is this doing to that league?


The NGB in Germany, France and Sweden along with local government help structured clubs with funding to have paid coaches which again sees more people playing and getting support, This brings up the level of players country wide to compete in the league structure, while also allowing people to feel supported with coaching and improvement and more likely to stay in the sport and making competing a higher level cheaper.

without the investment and development in clubs and structure we won’t continue to push forward and follow Table Tennis England Mission


“You may have a point about the vets tournaments that week.... But the calendar is absolutely stacked as it is - Make your decision.”


I made no mention of the Vetts Tournament, the calendar is stacked which is my point entirely


the calendar always is, but Nov especially so due to the start of National Cadet and National Junior League, which sees a whole lot of extra results submitted - But this is known yet why was this not thought about? Bring in a temp staff member for example or what seems to be the best option and safest option of just delay the release a day or two to get the work done instead of publishing a list which is inaccurate as results have been missed so can’t be a true ranking for that period. Now young players who have worked very hard to get there wins to see their name printed on that list which have been waiting since the 12[SUP]th[/SUP] of November now have to wait till the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] (I think) of January which is disappointing for the kids, given the fact were fighting with the mainstream sports such as football and the range of games consoles, iPad etc, as a sport we can’t afford to be doing things to leave a negative experience in table tennis.

But of course, I’m just harking on about the good old of he 1950’s and the hierarchy of table tennis England


If you got 3 tickets for £60 fair play, I I have just looked and for Saturday alone will cost me £56.

But to compare the Team World Cup to the World cup of football is crazy football has supply and demand, Table Tennis doesn’t! Yet Hopefully


If I compare it to I was at the German open I was able to fly to Germany, stay over, eat well watch two days of play with longer sessions for less than what it will cost me to attend the world cup.

I know again it’s a slightly off comparison as Table Tennis England don’t have any influence over the travel and hotel costs

but has this been considered in the pricing?


My objection is they have priced out a lot of people attending when you factor in other costs involved which to attend any event no matter where it is!!!


nothing to do with it being in my local sports hall or at the Copperbox. If its in my local sports hall he people from the south will have to travel to it and there fore still be a factor to people attending!!!


I would love to see an event where the world is coming to England in a fantastic venue a full house of noisy supporters getting behind England, but I have my doubts that will happen and what looks better? I know the last time the English Open was run the tickets were a lot cheaper and longer days and still table tennis England Or ETTA back then got heavily criticized for, so many empty seats be interesting to see spectator figures. Like I say I hope I’m wrong and we have a huge crowd.


It is more infuriating as a volunteer who gives 50/60 hours a week to my club and as a member I don’t feel I get anything without having to pay more and more to then see the money being spent on a fancy event (which will make a huge loss) instead of investment in the structure and future of Table Tennis in England.


Millions have been invested in Ping with no real proof of anyone playing the sport further, Sheffield has seen 1 person join the league after 3/4 years of Ping! despite the amazing publicity hasn’t had the effect it was hoped.


Let face it without Greenhouse ploughing money in and the fantastic work they do would the number of players in the UK be going up?

 

[Brs]

I'm not sure why you still use paper reporting for tournament results. The US is quite backwards as a TT country but almost all tournaments now use software and results are on the USATT site often the Monday or Tuesday following the event. Smart TDs also have a monitor in the hall where results are posted as they are entered off the paper scorecards, so players verify the data entry near real time.

I believe at least some of that software is freeware, and would probably work just as well in UK tournaments. It might be worthwhile to enquire.

 

[NDH]

Hi logical thinking,

I won't quote your post, as it'll take an age to scroll down for others to read - But I appreciate your time and effort in going into the details.

Your views are not alone - I know a few people who feel the same regarding "what are we getting for our money".

Perhaps I've resigned myself (wrongly), to simply enjoying playing the sport I love, and burying my head in the sand to the politics that goes with it.

I just can't see the sport ever "taking off" in the UK to a big level due to the lack of facilities and knowledge at a grass roots level.

I recently had 4 tables which I offered to schools in the local area (as my club received 4 new ones) - No one wanted them, I literally couldn't give them away. Most people said they didn't have the space to store them.

So yeah - The hierarchy of TTE don't seem to offer a huge amount, but then.... Most of the playing population (certainly in the local leagues), don't want for anything else - They pay "relatively" little to play, and get everything they want.

It's more likely the smaller "top level" playing population who would like a better return on investment (which I understand).

Lastly.... I'm still going to disagree with you on the ticket costs. In this day and age, a ticket to a world class event is always going to cost that kind of money - It's impressive you managed to get to Germany for less, but I think that's more a sign of the UK travel costs, coupled with the London hotel prices, than simply the ticket costs themselves.

My initial frustration with your post was due to the fact I feel a lot of people in this country are very quick to criticise anything good that happens, and find a reason to moan.

I was overjoyed when I found out the World Cup was coming to the UK - It's my first chance to see world class TT in the flesh (I couldn't get 2012 Olympic tickets), and it's a chance to take my son to see the best in the world.

I apologies for the snarky remarks in my previous post - I can see some of your POV - Although I'm not sure critiquing the hosting of the World Cup is the best way to get your point across.

Also - Like you, I've done my share of volunteering and helping out various clubs over the years, and it's people like you which make the sport accessible in the UK.

So from one volunteer to another - Thank you for your time and effort.

 

[logicalthinking]

DH, I get your point re having the World Cup it is a great thing as you say and a chance to see top class players which shouldn’t be looked too lightly in England.

i think we can agree to disagree on the tickets costs, which themselves I don’t think are crazy expensive just when other factors are added make an expensive day for people, which as we agree is a UK factor away from Table Tennis England control.

Thanks for the apology and point taken, I’m just a fed-up volunteer that can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel went we can hold a glamorous event but cant fund clubs to be professional and structured is frustrating along with a few

I greatly respect anyone who can hold there hands up and apologies and I respect the way you have defended your excitement of the event its needs people like you who really want to go to watch for the event to work.

I hate moaning about Table Tennis England as I know they have their hands tied by so many funding restrictions which what come from UK Sport and Sport England etc. It just seems the current set up/management/staff (Take your pick as i dont know) has taken running it as a business to the point of forgetting who the customers are such as the local league players as well as those wanting to go higher.

“I just can't see the sport ever "taking off" in the UK to a big level due to the lack of facilities and knowledge at a grass roots level” - but without us dreamers it never will so we have to dream and try ha-ha but with investment in clubs through facilities or paid professional coaches this could improve and allow us to take as a sport to take off.

Might see you in London

 

[darucla]

Re:tickets. I have tickets for full Friday, Saturday and Sunday sessions. Cost about £56. I made the decision to go when the event was first mentioned, bought tickets early, and avoided waiting for any consensus about going in my local area. ie, I didn't wait to see if the local league/clubs would take a group booking with a bus etc. I just gambled that I would see some of the world's best players: probably my last chance to do so. My major costs will be hotel related, and it's London, a stupidly expensive city, by any standards. As I understand it, the funding for the event is largely provided by the ITTF and the Sponsors. I'm pretty sure that TTE is not wasting their cash in any way here.

I am not trying to defend TTE in a general sense, as I don't feel that I am sufficiently clued up about their situation. But I see the Team World Cup as a great event that I have the chance to attend.

The last concert I attended at the O2 cost me £75 for three hours, a few years ago (Leonard Cohen, worth every penny). It's London.

 

[logicalthinking]

Hi Darucla, last time I was involved in a major event for Table Tennis England/ITTF the money from the ITTF was a small part of the overall cost with the idea being the cost spent by the hosts would be recovered from ticket sales, sales stand advertising space sales in programs etc.

As for sponsors as I understand it all the event sponsors are through the ITTF not Table Tennis England as Table Tennis England haven’t done the usual promotions based around the title sponsor. So again no major cash input to the event

I could be wrong but this is how it worked a few years ago.

 

[Maxine]

Hi I have been involved in TT and in businesses for the past 45 years and I can honestly say I have never seen anything like how our NGB is being run.
If they were a professional business they would have gone bust already.
The head office seems full of staff who simply have no understanding of business or our sport.
There is no transparency whatsoever in the financial dealings of anything at head office.
The British League system is an embarrassment run by people with clear conflicts of interest.
The rankings system has turned into a farce with countless simple mistakes and a ridiculous backlog. Where does ranking levy funding go.....?
There is no structured grass root development.
There is never any Table Tennis England staff present at any of the Junior or Senior tournaments. How on earth do they Talent ID ...?
The England Youth Squad system is a complete money making venture with no direction.
The heads of department are never at any events to meet the membership.
Marketing our sport has been a joke the European Junior top 12 was a prime example of a tragedy. The place was empty with little or no spectators... more volunteers than bums on seats.
Why on earth didn’t they contact local schools and give tickets away to promote our sport and the event.
Surely anybody with an ounce of common sense would have done that !
The National Training Centre Ackworth with no players to speak of staff and sparring partners coming out of there ears. More money down the drain.
The Talent Development Centre Programme with only a couple that I have seen really gaining any good reviews 1 in London and 1 in Plymouth. What has happened to the test of them ?
How can you have staff in the field galavanting all over the world not controlled in a clear structure, who seem to have more holidays than I have ever had. Some even take their family with them on these trips ..... who pays ? probably at membership expense.
Some staff clearly deriving second incomes off the back of there jobs.
Perhaps they should think before posting it all over social media what they are up to!
Loop Ping and now BeTT another non starter and wate of money!!
All the above is just the tip of the iceberg in my opinion and I really fear for the future of our sport in England. ...Max

 

[TableTennisTom]

Some of the criticism in this discussion seems very harsh. I don't have a deep involvement with TTE, not do I have any special insight into the workings of the organisation, but from my outsider's perspective I feel TTE is moving in the right direction. They seem to be making a big effort in professionalising their workings and the sport, e.g. changes to governance, exploring new funding streams via corporate sponsorship, TV coverage of national championships (very limited, but better than nothing!), better communications with membership, partnership with TT365 for software for local leagues, formal recognition of volunteers and coaches through Pride of TT awards.

Could more be done? Yes of course, as the list of concerns raised by others highlights. But you have to remember TTE is a small organisation with very insecure funding. I get the feeling it does the best it can with the resources it has available. In an ideal word it would have 10 times the income it has, a ton more staff and then it would be able to address more of the concerns posted in this discussion. Easier said than done, when when there are so many other sports competing for government and corporate funding. Personally I think the £14 membership is way too low. I would happily pay double/treble this, if it helped the sport grow in the UK.

So, I would like to turn this discussion around...

Rather than bashing TTE, what would you like TTE to improve in order of priority (and bearing in mind it only has limited funding and staff capacity)?

 

[logicalthinking]

Hi Tom, not to disagree with you as i would agree they are making more effort to be professional but at what cost to the membership it has?

i would argue that there were big changes to the Association when it became Table Tennis England from ETTA yet Now again we need a governance review! that can’t be right!!

i know that the New Sport England funding has had some influence towards this but how wrong could it have been in the first place?

TV coverage at the National Championships saw the event post over a £30,000 loss on the event which must come from somewhere? Did the sport gain enough exposure and awareness from it? That I will leave up to discussion.
Like you say great to see it there on Sky Sports but was it worth the cost?

The 365 partnership is a joke! The money being spent on that could have funded a much better and clearly not so influenced by a certain table tennis retailer and owner

not to mention the large amounts of money that has been invest on projects that have never seen the light of day and now have been moved to other software providers leaving table tennis England out of pocket and no software

and surely the main man behind the software being involved in 365 and chair of the British League has to be a conflict of interest?

Not to mention the new Grand Prix Organizer working part time for the same North-east table tennis retailer and part time for Table tennis England on the Grand Prix’s. again, not a conflict?

I agree whole heartily that £14 is to low but I repeat what do I get for my £14? Everything that I want to do I have to then pay extra for and the £14 doesn’t help my local league. yet most (or my understanding anyway, perhaps someone has some figures) local league players see this as to high. If they could see something tangible for there money perhaps everyone would agree to pay more?

Insecure funding again yes, your right but it is doing nothing for its core membership to make an income stream and like i say a £30,000 loss on 1 event i wonder why we can’t spend money on grass roots development!

Get more people into a structure which in turn will get more members and more people bringing money into the sport.

This is excluding the UK Sport Performance money that has to be spent on Performance at World/Euro events but you could argue is that being spent correctly when you have 1 full time England player living in the country and yet performance staff coming out of there ears.

 

[NDH]

At a risk of going slightly off topic - I do absolutely love TT365.

Whilst I don't know the potential conflicts involved with the people behind it all, the set up and system works great!

One of the local leagues I play in, recently decided against implementing it for good, after trialling it for a year (they had a historic site which was preferred in this instance).

I thought (and still think), it was a massive oversight, and having some uniformity between ranking, layouts, and general ease of use, would have been superb (the other 5 local leagues in the area all use TT365).

 

[TableTennisTom]

Hi Tom, not to disagree with you as i would agree they are making more effort to be professional but at what cost to the membership it has?

i would argue that there were big changes to the Association when it became Table Tennis England from ETTA yet Now again we need a governance review! that can’t be right!!

i know that the New Sport England funding has had some influence towards this but how wrong could it have been in the first place?

As I understand it, all sports have had to review their governance if they want to keep receiving funds from UK Sport. If you want to blame anyone for this, blame the government - not TTE: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...forms-that-will-collectively-strengthen-sport

The 365 partnership is a joke! The money being spent on that could have funded a much better and clearly not so influenced by a certain table tennis retailer and owner

Sounds like you know more than I do about that actually workings of this partnership. But this partnership clearly seems beneficial for all the local leagues who use the system. I really like TT365 - very easy to use for admins and players. Before this, our league was using excel spreadsheets to log the results, which was a bit of a nightmare!

I agree whole heartily that £14 is to low but I repeat what do I get for my £14? Everything that I want to do I have to then pay extra for and the £14 doesn’t help my local league. yet most (or my understanding anyway, perhaps someone has some figures) local league players see this as to high. If they could see something tangible for there money perhaps everyone would agree to pay more?

To be honest, I'm just not sure what you're expecting to get for your £14 membership (which works out at £1.16 per month!). What do you think you should be getting? How would you like TTE to spend this money?

To reiterate, how I finished my first post, instead of just bashing TTE, it would be good to hear some constructive ideas from you about what TTE should differently (and how these should be funded).

 

[logicalthinking]

Hi Tom, I’m not blaming Table Tennis England for the latest changes as I do say in I last post Sport England funding has influenced this. But what I am asking is given it wasn’t long since the last changes (to become Table Tennis England) is there so many more issues than what Sport England want to happen with a non membership voted chair person. This is why the independent review committee has been formed as the membership have been crying out for changes within the association.

Which let’s hope some changes on the ground actually happen through the process

I agree the 365 system does a job and was needed but at what cost? I also dislike everything looking the same where’s the league and clubs personally and own image doesn’t sell the sport to the young people who want bells and whistles and instant video content

For my £14 I would like to see something! doesn’t have to be a lot as it’s not of money but I may as well put my £1.16 down the drain or to a charity as I get the same out of it.

I can’t remember the last time a Table Tennis England stuff member visited our club or even engaged with us without me asking first to see how we’re doing. (The regional staff are totally over worked with areas that are far to vast so perhaps a bad comparison) why we copied badminton’s example of regions I have no idea. Let’s copy a sport whos numbers are lowering.

Even if it is just some clear evidence of investment at grass route level. They had lots of funding available to clubs leagues etc last year. This was great as that’s what clubs etc had asked for, now that’s gone!

I think I was clear in a previous post about what I want to see investing in some infrastructure at grass roots to provide a clear and suitable progress pathway for all players in the sport with clubs that work with Table Tennis England and show the correct club structure internally to be able to provide support to everyone and be profitable and become mostly self staining, not have thousands of pounds invest in TDC that only cater for elite level and some of which focused on only a handful of kids and other nothing at all with no effort to become self funding.

 

[logicalthinking]

NDH. Your right lol. It’s also something Table tennis locally needed 10 years go lol. But it’s now dated hasn’t moved with the times and for what it is very expensive and very long to changes to happen. But judging by people’s comments leagues may get it free. In which case my cost argument is void

 

[TableTennisTom]

I think I was clear in a previous post about what I want to see investing in some infrastructure at grass roots to provide a clear and suitable progress pathway for all players in the sport with clubs that work with Table Tennis England and show the correct club structure internally to be able to provide support to everyone and be profitable and become mostly self staining, not have thousands of pounds invest in TDC that only cater for elite level and some of which focused on only a handful of kids and other nothing at all with no effort to become self funding.

To me, it looks like TTE are investing more in grassroots that it ever has done before. Plenty of support available, which addresses some of the things you mention: https://tabletennisengland.co.uk/clubs/clubs-guidance/

And to me, it seems there is a clear talent pathway in place: https://tabletennisengland.co.uk/performance/england-leopards-pathway/

Of course you may not feel TTE are doing these things very well (which is obviously the impression you give in your posts), but TTE are clearly trying to make improvements to all areas of the sport in England, from grassroots to elite performers.

I'm not really too sure what else to say in this topic. It's a shame you feel as despondent as you do. Have you raised any of your concerns with any members of staff at TTE? Have they responded to your concerns?