What is the technical reason Ma Long and top pros love W968?

[kapahoo]

The long blade face gives a head heavy blade with sweet spot relatively far a way from the handle (same as the cybershape). Good for forehand oriented players like Ma Long and WCQ (and Moregardh).

 

[TensorBackhand]

The long blade face gives a head heavy blade with sweet spot relatively far a way from the handle (same as the cybershape). Good for forehand oriented players like Ma Long and WCQ (and Moregardh).

yes, even my Lemuria Long5 clone seems slightly larger than normal, and more head heavy

 

[Jan_]

question is, what is the technical reason why he prefers this style of blade?

Because he likes it. He's been playing with it for years, it has a ton of speed when carbon activates, bundles of control and consistency, and he doesn't see a reason to change.

 

[Silver Server]

Imo Chinese philosophy seems to be power from within, ie creating their own power rather than borrowing it from their equipment. i believe W968 is too hard to play for mere mortals, because it has so many gears that they can't access them or they don't know when/how it activates.

You can even throw Golden Vis into the equation. It's softer & slower than the commercial or reg version, but offers more power and I would assume control that the pros prefer it to the normal version.

I also think you can't get a good feel for any equipment within a few hours of hitting/playing with it, but I'm just a low level scrub.

 

[mcfly]

another topic! but this time with the real blade, not the clones!

 

[TackyForehand]

Probably for balance between speed and spin. He is already physically strong and the table is only so long. Strong men tend to prefer slower blades.

 

[piligrim]

another topic! but this time with the real blade, not the clones!

He already have all clones. nothing left on Aliexpress ))

 

[blahness]

basically, short game. Top pros can loopkill with any blade even 5 ply wood with tremendous speed and spin. But if you keep popping up short pushes due to bouncy blades then all the loopkill training in the world won't be able to save you from just getting 3rd ball killed.

I saw a few pro competitions live and the video doesn't do justice to how hard and consistently they can loopkill the ball - it is quite a few levels up from amateur levels. With all blades there is a balance between momentum absorption (good for blocks, short game, etc...) and momentum addition (loopkills) and blades basically cannot be good at both - there is always a compromise.

You will notice that physically stronger players (see for e.g. CNT) tend to go for mushier stuff because they aren't lacking in power at all but they need the extra control to play safer, whereas you can see physically weaker players (see for e.g. Lin Yun Ju), he uses fast af blades because he needs the power and he opts to train hard to get the control required to tame the fast blades.

 

[K.K]

the better you get, the more quality you receive from your opponents. the more they can trick you with spin, placement and decisive movements and break your rhythm. then it is not anymore about pure speed, or pure spin or pure technic. you need to have everything at once, all the time, at your best. so even pros are trying to get the most control they can get away with.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

This will be my final reply to you, because I just can't deal with this type of intellectually deficient interaction. For your sake, this is literally word for word what I wrote:
"
968 is kinda slow, at times can feel mushy. For such offensive powerhouses like Ma Long and Wang Chuqin, I would think that they would want something faster and with more pop. What is the technical reason that so many still use W968?

Is it because they feel like their game is actually won/lost on the short game and setup soft touch game?

Is it because they feel they loop with more spin and consistency?"

I didn't say it is not a great blade. That is NOT literally what I wrote. I wrote that it is kinda slow, and at times can feel mushy. This is a physical description of its properties, not a judgement of whether it is good or not.

Based on these physical properties, why do Pros feel this style of blade maximizes their ability?

its not a slow blade, so how do one even have a conversation with you, if you are stuck with it being slow?
your whole measurements as far as I can tell is skewed in blades and rubbers.
my conclusion for these kind of matter equates to really just this

"different level players define equipment differently"

as to why pros feel this style of blade ......
I would rather ask, why some hobby players don't feel this blade is great.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

make use of all its gears

same thing for a race car driver, this know how to maximize resources in terms of the word gears

 

[TensorBackhand]

its not a slow blade, so how do one even have a conversation with you, if you are stuck with it being slow?
your whole measurements as far as I can tell is skewed in blades and rubbers.
my conclusion for these kind of matter equates to really just this

"different level players define equipment differently"

as to why pros feel this style of blade ......
I would rather ask, why some hobby players don't feel this blade is great.

Slow or fast is relative. I don't mean it is dead slow. I think it is a step slower than other popular blades: TB ALC, Viscaria, Harimoto ALC, Harimoto SZLC, Innerforce ZLC, etc.
And again, I didn't say the blade is not great. I asked for Ma Long and other pros, what makes this blade great for them?

 

[Migzkulit]

W968 provincial is not mushy at all. I'm using H3 40 OS unboosted and it's already too fast. It feels exactly how Zwill said in his review.
I lent my racket to some people and they didn't think it was too spinny or powerful but when I used it, they thought it was a dangerous ball. The only difference is I play with more power.

This question is basically the same as, "how do pros decide on their equipment." The national team can ask for changes in thickness, hardness, and a bunch of other things I wouldn't know they could change.

I think the technical reason they use w968 is because they can change the characteristics to what they need. w968 is just the vessel for all the changes.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Slow or fast is relative. I don't mean it is dead slow. I think it is a step slower than other popular blades: TB ALC, Viscaria, Harimoto ALC, Harimoto SZLC, Innerforce ZLC, etc.
And again, I didn't say the blade is not great. I asked for Ma Long and other pros, what makes this blade great for them?

so you asking on TTD and hoping Ma Long and other Pros that are using 968 will be hear answering your question?

I some time wonder, what kind of place you think TTD is with all these "questions".

If you surely want honest replies, you need to make use of honest efforts (which I'm not sure if you even bother most times).

Heming Hu isn't really a top pro, but he uses it, did you reach out and ask him?
i doubt he is on TTD any more, but you can reach out.
there are also many pros who have social media accounts that you can reach out.
what have you done to get an answer?

or if you rely on TTD, then do expect replies that mine that doubts your true understanding of equipment

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

W968 provincial is not mushy at all. I'm using H3 40 OS unboosted and it's already too fast. It feels exactly how Zwill said in his review.
I lent my racket to some people and they didn't think it was too spinny or powerful but when I used it, they thought it was a dangerous ball. The only difference is I play with more power.

This question is basically the same as, "how do pros decide on their equipment." The national team can ask for changes in thickness, hardness, and a bunch of other things I wouldn't know they could change.

I think the technical reason they use w968 is because they can change the characteristics to what they need. w968 is just the vessel for all the changes.

I also don't feel it is mushy
for all I know TB's clones are wrong or his "original" (original fake) is wrong too
968 is pretty fast for me

W968 or any blade, you can't change too much.
most pros change weight, stiffness and grains of wood.
also, 968 you will change every 2 or 3 months, so the plies are fresh

for all I know, TB bought new or second hand a 968 original or not, and it has been absorbing moisture for years or not.

 

[TensorBackhand]

so you asking on TTD and hoping Ma Long and other Pros that are using 968 will be hear answering your question?

I some time wonder, what kind of place you think TTD is with all these "questions".

If you surely want honest replies, you need to make use of honest efforts (which I'm not sure if you even bother most times).

Heming Hu isn't really a top pro, but he uses it, did you reach out and ask him?
i doubt he is on TTD any more, but you can reach out.
there are also many pros who have social media accounts that you can reach out.
what have you done to get an answer?

or if you rely on TTD, then do expect replies that mine that doubts your true understanding of equipment

You are totally free to skip this thread. No need to reply if you don't like my question.

If somebody is willing to answer, they are free to reply.

 

[Oliverpool]

Slow or fast is relative. I don't mean it is dead slow. I think it is a step slower than other popular blades: TB ALC, Viscaria, Harimoto ALC, Harimoto SZLC, Innerforce ZLC, etc.
And again, I didn't say the blade is not great. I asked for Ma Long and other pros, what makes this blade great for them?

I think the main thing about blade and rubber is that it has to suit the player racket speed.

Too hard a rubber or blade for a player with weak or slow racket speed and it would be a slow combo.

Too soft a rubber and blade for a player with high racket speed and he would end up feeling that every stroke and he hits the blade carbon and end up with a poor spin/attack.

Like when I tried Harimoto inner SALC with dignics 09c, I sometimes struggle to get proper impact to get good loop kill/spin. But a friend of mine who was using Viscaria with d05 and struggle to impact spin on it did fantastically well on the inner SALC. He definitely had more loop quality in speed and spin on the inner SALC then his own racket that he deciddd to change to the same combo. My conclusion, the
Combi of rubber and blade has to work for your racket speed. The sweet spot has to be right or you will struggle to hit good shots with it.

Also I recognise that your good shots in games and in practice can be different. What works in practice may not work usually in games. So aiming for a combo that works well at 60-80% of my practice speed and stroke seems be my own sweet spot

 

[Sland]

Not really a ton of proof to help you find a nice, objective answer to your question, but I really feel that the Chinese system believes strongly in the limba top ply inner carbon builds for fh dominant players. limba is a softer wood than something like koto and it really does seem like that extra dwell pairs extremely well with hurricane and gives the player immense ability to have a very strong 3rd ball and create pressure before their opponent does. Both ma long and WCQ have incredible footwork off of a strong service game and consistently position themselves to take some (normally) very awkward step around and half long balls with their fh. I believe this is where this blade and rubber combo shines and it is also exceptional in the touch game. You know it's not a perfect "fits all" setup for the fh since in rallies where the opponent starts lobbing or fishing, they will twiddle to the bh side rubber.


Other than that, it also feels like bh dominate players prefer the outer carbon-koto combo for it's snappy and direct response. Fzd, lsd, zjk, lgy, and lyj as examples.


If someone wants to go extremely deep with me and has knowledge of it, the only outer carbon dhs blade am aware of is the k161. I owned and played with one of these and it is basically a limba top ply viscaria that was made for Yan An (originally a viscaria user) when he played on the cnt and was never commercially made- just has provincial and national versions out there. I have heard from fairly credible sources that for dhs sponsored players that want a stiffer feeling (maybe like an outer carbon blade) they literally just make the core slightly thicker, which is why national w968s can have varying blade thickness.


Hopefully there's some decent logic in there... Here on the tt forums, we can get carried away with our obsession of equipment and need to have deeper understanding of it. Truth is, in a lot of cases, we are putting far more thought into these subjects than pros do. And even if that's the case, I will always enjoy and engage in discussion of it!

 

[Kopp]

It was made for pros with specific qualities considering their power & skills. Beginners or intermediate players may not feel the same.

 

[Vrael]

I have w968 from Jang Woojin with modified handle (bigger, more squarish and his face pic on bottom).

Even though this blade gives me best feedback out of all the blades I have tested and the ball quality is superb (asked coach to rate my shot quality, without telling him what blades I am using), I am not able to play with it with my weak physique. I can use it for 5 min and after that I have no more strength to swing my arm or do quick bh/fh changes. The head is huge, so it is very head heavy and it weights 92g.

1 thing I can say for sure is that it is not a slow blade, at least the model I have. For me it is even too fast, but that's probably because I don't play with chinese rubbers. I don't even want to think how heavy it is with few layers of booster and glue