What oils can be used as boosters?

[UpSideDownCarl]

Over time, like days or weeks, that should go back to normal. But since it was put on unevenly the sponge may play and respond unevenly.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

 

[Pnachtwey]

Off topic.
I never intended to play with the HRS sponge. I had bought 6 HRS sponges of different thicknesses to disprove the myth that thicker sponges are faster ( have higher COR ). The thicker sponges were not faster. Even when I stacked two sponges on top of each other. However, my test was ruined because the different sponges were of different hardness so I couldn't justify saying that thinner sponges are faster when they were clearly sponges made of different material. PathFinderPro had the same thing happen to him in his video about different sponge thickness being faster or slower. He bought what looked like two identical rubbers except one was thicker than the other only to find that the sponges were of different hardness which invalided his findings.

On topic.
I didn't pour the lamp oil on the sponge evenly. I poured a 9 to 10 cm diameter puddle of lamp oil on the sponge so the middle where the lamp oil was is thicker than the rest of the sponge even after 6 hours. The sponge is still domed and curled and it was still heavier by about 1.2 gm. I won't look at the sponge again until Monday as it is at work. Hopefully the oil in my scale has dried out too.

I am surprised the lamp oil's effect last this long after the oil apparently has dried. I use lamp oil to clean the surface of my top sheets. The lamp oil does a good job of cleaning the top sheet and it appears to evaporate in a minute or two leaving no residue I can detect.

BTW, both lamp oil and mineral oil are paraffin oils or alkanes. I am specifically mentioning lamp oil because I think it is lighter than mineral oil.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Some of the oil will actually sink into the topsheet as well. Even if you are putting it on and wiping it off quickly, some of the oil sinks in. How long the oil that sinks into a topsheet takes to fully evaporate is a guess. I am not sure.

 

[bobpuls]

And what is interesting.... In the speedglue the glue is shrinking the sponge ...... So where is the truth....

 

[Liten]

And what is interesting.... In the speedglue the glue is shrinking the sponge ...... So where is the truth....

For real??

 

[bobpuls]

Yes .. Here in our club some people still speedglue and ifyou watch carefully the pro are starting with bigger cuts of rubbers when they enter a competition and at the end the rubber is the same as blade.... Which is exactli how speedglue is working.....

 

[Hamasaki_Fanz]

Yes .. Here in our club some people still speedglue and ifyou watch carefully the pro are starting with bigger cuts of rubbers when they enter a competition and at the end the rubber is the same as blade.... Which is exactli how speedglue is working.....

I think it's because speed glue doesnt really glue/stick (unlike wbg, it seems speedglue is less strong). This is why when they apply speed glue, they the rubber stretches, but when the effect wears off, the rubber shrinks.

 

[bobpuls]

Hmmmm i newer think about it this way..... Looks like true... And this is why they reglue it so many times.

 

[Liten]

I use an old formula voc based glue. Every time i reglue the rubber is stretched. If I then recut the rubber to fit, it shrinks after a couple of days, leaving a tiny gap to the edge. So Im with Hamazaki on this one..

 

[bobpuls]

Ok looks better then my theory..
Ok .....now im after second layer..... First it was the sesamic oil and second the baby oil..... And the andro grip has dome already... H3 is now more less flatten. Ready for third layer... Baby oil.

 

[Pnachtwey]

Bobpuls, Only one kind of oil should have been applied at a time. Now how will you or we know which oil is responsible for any desirable or undesirable effects? There may be one oil that has a desired effect but it is diluted by the other two oils or whichever one was applied last.

I still have some sacrificial HRS sponge. I can apply some Dawei speed glue to it. I bet it makes the sponge thicker like the lamp oil does. It will be easy enough for me to test.

Meanwhile none of this has got to the point. Why bother if the treated sponges aren't more elastic by a significant amount. As I said above, I would rather buy a faster or spinnier rubber.

Bobpuls, I would stick to the paraffin oils.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Pnachtwey, I think bobpuls means that, before he took the glue off and before you told him to use baby oil, he already used sesame oil. But that was several days ago.

Now he put a first layer of baby oil.

I could be wrong, but I think he listened to you.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

 

[bobpuls]

Pnachtwey, I think bobpuls means that, before he took the glue off and before you told him to use baby oil, he already used sesame oil. But that was several days ago.

Now he put a first layer of baby oil.

I could be wrong, but I think he listed to you.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

yes exactly ..... now i have one layer of sesame oil and two layers of baby oil ... and the dome is there on both rubbers ...... i will wait 12 hours and i will glue the rubbers .... i think three layers are enough.

 

[bobpuls]

Here how it looks like

 

[Pnachtwey]

http://www.rsc.org/suppdata/jm/c2/c2jm33686c/c2jm33686c.pdf
A very relevant pdf. Well almost.
This report is about nano tube sponges. I have no idea what a nano tube sponge is but JUIC claims to use nano-tube technology.

Not much is said how the test were conducted except that the test were cyclic. This means the sponges were compress to %50 and then released and in some cases for a few cycles.

The graphs show what we in the testing industry call stress vs strain curves. Pressure is the y scale and % compression is the x scale. Notice how the pressure while compressing is greater than the pressure while releasing. If the sponge was efficient the pressure should be the same extending and retracting. Therefore the area inside the loop is proportional to lost energy. It looks like the area inside cycle loop for mineral oil is larger than area inside the vegetable oil cycle loop.
Alcohol looks like it has the smallest area in its cycle loop but the scale is different so it is hard to compare.

The 3rd page show the times for the cycles measured in minutes. Obviously this is useless to TT players where the sponge is compressed and released in around 1 millisecond.

It looks like vegetable oil actually works better than mineral ( a paraffin ) oil in this test because the area side the cycle loop is smaller than that of the mineral oil cycle loop.

The 4th page shows the sponge being compressed in air. Again the testers screwed up because they compressed the sponge to 70% instead of 50% but if you notice that the pressure only went to less than 0.4 MPa at 50% instead of 0.6 MPa for the oils I bet the area within the cycle loop would be smaller, more efficient, than that of the oils. This would suggest that boosting with any oil would not make you sponge more efficient but it is hard to know what would really happen if the cycles were only 1 millisecond long instead of minutes.

BTW, one of the reasons the air cycle loop loses energy is that compressed air heats up. Since the tests are conducted on a minute time scale there is plenty of time for the energy escape. In a one millisecond ( dwell time ) cycle there would be little loss due to heat transfer.

What TT players need is a similar test conducted on sponges we know and at a millisecond cycle with time resolution in the micro seconds. Then we would really be able to compare sponges and boosting methods.

I just wanted to share how things are tested in industry.

Edit, I found more about the testin
http://www.academia.edu/4969445/Elastic_shape_recovery_of_carbon_nanotube_sponges_in_liquid_oil
It looks like they saturated the sponges so the oil had to be squeezed out of the pours of the sponge.

 

[bobpuls]

Ok .... the boosting camp is finished .... and the results ?
Maybe i was awaiting too much from it so i`m a really disappointed ...
The h3 gets a better spin a better overall but it is so small difference ...... I better stick With Dhs H8 which is far more better. H8 it`s just Perfect Rubber and i will not search for any replacement .. not even Blue sponge national ....
The elasticity is there, the speed ,spin, control !!!! all i was hoping will be in the H3 after tunning ... the weight is lower and it is not to sensitive to spin . The feeling is something like on the H3 on all wood but on stiff Carbo blade.... You have feel you can return any shot......

I found a better result with Boosting with the andro rasant grip , where the touch play gets way better and gets a better feeling from it .
So i`m done with boosting ... i`ll stick with my FH DHS H8 and BH : Xiom omega V Euro or Rasant Beat.....
I made giveaway of the blade with the boosted rubbers to one young player... so no more boosting.
End of searching.

 

[Hamasaki_Fanz]

Ok .... the boosting camp is finished .... and the results ?
Maybe i was awaiting too much from it so i`m a really disappointed ...
The h3 gets a better spin a better overall but it is so small difference ...... I better stick With Dhs H8 which is far more better. H8 it`s just Perfect Rubber and i will not search for any replacement .. not even Blue sponge national ....
The elasticity is there, the speed ,spin, control !!!! all i was hoping will be in the H3 after tunning ... the weight is lower and it is not to sensitive to spin . The feeling is something like on the H3 on all wood but on stiff Carbo blade.... You have feel you can return any shot......

I found a better result with Boosting with the andro rasant grip , where the touch play gets way better and gets a better feeling from it .
So i`m done with boosting ... i`ll stick with my FH DHS H8 and BH : Xiom omega V Euro or Rasant Beat.....
I made giveaway of the blade with the boosted rubbers to one young player... so no more boosting.
End of searching.

there must be something wrong with your boosting technique or the rubber condition, because I, fais and others find the rubber capabilities are much improved

 

[fais]

I'm inclined to think your original layer of sesame oil did seep through, as you had waited quite a while before taking it off. The sesame oil may be preventing the baby oil from taking complete effect, or impacting it negatively in some other way. You did say the result with the rasant was better. The did the reasant also have an initial layer of sesame oil that was removed prior to baby oil, or was it boosted with baby oil straight up?

How much did the H3 expand when you reglued it? did it require recutting? (Did it expand as much as in the vids posted earlier on how to boost using booster?)

 

[Pnachtwey]

The sponge that I applied lamp oil to last Friday still weighs 0.88 gm more than before. It still has a slight dome but I think I could apply a top sheet to it if I had to.

Although the sponge expands I still seriously doubt if it helps the COR. If it does it is because the air bubble are bigger.

 

[bobpuls]

Yes i have aplied the same amount of oil layers on both of them always waited 24h .. After last one 32 h ... H3neo 3xpaneded about 2-3mm on each side. Rasant mayebe 1 mm.