What's a good beginner set up?

[Inkognito]

This is interesting. Me and probably many others learned this also, but speaking to coaches lately it seems this is changing.
Some coaches nowadays also recommend a bit faster setups with thicker sponges.
One of the reasons given was mainly that the kids are tought this way earlier about spin sensivity and tempo from thicker sponges, cause most children can adapt faster than grown-ups.

Different schools and different coaches. Not saying the table tennis school I promote is the better one, but I think it's important for people to get a "correct" technique as fast as possible, with that I don't mean a by the book technique cause I really encourage personal styles, but it all has to start with a stabile foundation. The problem I see with people having faster setups early on is that the bat will do alot of the work resulting in a half done technique. I also kinda disagree with the theory about handling spin and tempo better early on when it nowadays are maybe both less spin and tempo and more physique involved compared with how it was before.

But I have to give you that I have heard people say "it's better to play with the setup you are intended to play with as fully developed player". Kinda sounds logical but I think that view forgets the time it takes to become "fully developed" versus the fact that the equipment change. On the other hand, the equipment is just a part of the big picture where other elements problably determines the outcome more than the early stage setup. Just my thoughts on it as a trainer thou I nowadays regarding table tennis only work as a private coach and a private trainer instead of being a club trainer.

 

[Inkognito]

Interesting you advise the Grubba All + thin sriver. It was another setup i was recommended regularly.

My main aim at the moment is to work on my brush looping. Do you think my setup is not ideal for this? Or still good but not what you would call the 'best'?

The best setup is just a dream Think it's good enough. Give it a try, and listen to all kind of feedback you can get and compare it with your own thoughts about it. It's very individual but I wouldn't say your setup is wrong.

 

[Suga D]

Different schools and different coaches. Not saying the table tennis school I promote is the better one, but I think it's important for people to get a "correct" technique as fast as possible, with that I don't mean a by the book technique cause I really encourage personal styles, but it all has to start with a stabile foundation. The problem I see with people having faster setups early on is that the bat will do alot of the work resulting in a half done technique. I also kinda disagree with the theory about handling spin and tempo better early on when it nowadays are maybe both less spin and tempo and more physique involved compared with how it was before.

But I have to give you that I have heard people say "it's better to play with the setup you are intended to play with as fully developed player". Kinda sounds logical but I think that view forgets the time it takes to become "fully developed" versus the fact that the equipment change. On the other hand, the equipment is just a part of the big picture where other elements problably determines the outcome more than the early stage setup. Just my thoughts on it as a trainer thou I nowadays regarding table tennis only work as a private coach and a private trainer instead of being a club trainer.

Thanks for taking time to answer.
I find this whole subject very interesting.
The way you describe it totally makes sense.
Hmmmmh.
But as you mentioned, different schools, different coaches.
There isn't only one right way.
Many thanks for elaborating.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Here is some info to add to the discussion. It is true, I have heard people say to start out with the blade that is the one you want to end up with and grow into it. But I actually have not heard that from someone I really thought had their head screwed on fully straight or who had the student's best interest in mind.

Several years ago, I was trying to help a friend look for a blade that would be good for him. His technique totally sucked and he was trying to decide between the TB ALC and the TB ZLC.

At the time I was using a Clipper and thought what I had was great.

I asked two friends who are pros, who are coaches and who I trust what they thought.

Both of these players grew up in Europe in two different countries. Both were on their countries national team as juniors. Both of them told me pretty much exactly the same thing. And neither of them knew I asked the other.

This is what they said. For someone who is learning and wants to get better, they would be best off with a 5 ply all wood blade with good feeling and good dwell time that is in the All+ to Off- speed range. They both recommended that, if the person was completely a beginner, it was usually better to start with a classic rubber like Sriver or Mark V and a softer version like FX to learn how to get the ball so the topsheet could grab the ball more fully.

They also said that when a player is past the beginner stage, newer technology rubbers on that same blade should be fine.

They both told me that when they are a kid, they did not get a choice. Their coach gave them a racket with rubbers on it and the setup was chosen based on their skills. One of them said: "the coach just walked up to me and said: here, this is your racket." And they weren't supposed to use anything else.

In the discussion with that pro, he said that, if a player doesn't really care about getting better and just wants to get something that makes him happy, then he can get whatever he wants. But if he wants to get better, the blade should be all wood, 5 ply and All+ to Off- speed.

He also said a few more things. He said he liked softer blades like the Primorac Off-. He said he didn't like too many Stiga blades because they make them too head heavy. And he said that usually a player's technique gets good enough to use anything at around the 2100-2200 (USATT) level. He said it did depend on the player but somewhere in that range the technique solidifies and that, if the player is playing someone better than them who is able to break down their game, that, even though they get beat and their game gets broken down, their technique does not break down under that pressure. They are just over matched. And a little bit lower level, the technique would fall apart a bit while their game was being broken down.

Then he said that this was not always true and he pointed out two players we both know who are very good, who are 2150-2250 range whose technique totally sucks but they are doing something else that makes them that level.

So we both laughed about this one. @NextLevel: you definitely know who one of them is. Hahahahaha.

Hope this helps.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Ikon]

I'm a beginner and after few days of researches on google I recently bought my current set up. It seems Mark V and Sriver have a good control and are ideal for begineers who want to learn proper technique. My understanding is that Mark V was just a little faster than Sriver so I put it on my FH with a thicker sponge and I chose Sriver for BH with a thiner sponge (this also balanced the weight of the bat as Sriver is a little lighter than Mark V). I might have actually used thicker sponges on both sides but that bit of extra control is a nice to have if you often make mistakes and give away points for free. Also with my previous faster rubbers (I had DHS Hurricane 3 and DHS G888 before) I used to loop every ball because with such tacky rubbers I wasn't able to push. Balls were all out or into the net. I couldn't understand why every push failed, so I ended up not pushing at all because I was too afraid of making mistakes. With my new and slower rubbers instead I finally see that the best choice is not being a machine gun. Also when I push now, I feel more confident so I tend to control my game more often. However cons of the speed downgrade is that I'm still used with the "fast & furious" feeling, thanks to the very high throw of the Hurricane 3 and the high weight of the bat I got used to brush the ball on top to give it good speed and spin. Now instead my brain decided to change the movement, I tend to smash the ball because the feeling is "this ball is not gonna go anywhere". I'll need to fix this but overall is a great bat and I'm happy with it, I payed it 88.47GBP + Shipment fees on Tees Sport (make up service included).

 

[achalwins94]

I built a coworker a a paddle he hasn't had the chance to collect (he has been out of town) - Yinhe E3 VB with DHS TG3 neo forehand (40 degrees 2 thin layers of baby oil) and Yinhe Mercury 2 (33 degrees, one layer of baby oil). The baby oil treatment is not really to supercharge the rubbers, merely to remove the reverse dome, stretch the top sheet a bit, and soften the sponge.

In his absence, I've decided to train with my right hand by being my own coach (I'm a left handed penhold player) and my improvement has astonished me as well my coworkers. What has blown me away is the incredible feedback this paddle provides. It's a jack of all trades blade with exceptional control and many gears. A blade I put together in under $60 I think is easily worth $120 or more. Today, I spent 15 minutes training another coworker (0 basics, No clue how to hit the ball) and the first thing he said was "vibration". As we did some drills, I told him to be cognicant of the feeling when making contact with the ball. In all but 10 minutes he understood How to loop and began ripping them (quite haphazardly of course, but he was was clearly grasping the concept I wasn't able to get him to do with store bought).

If you wish to train with Chinese, tacky rubbers, I cannot promote this paddle enough. The TG3 neo has a softer top sheet than H3 neo, and is a little more demanding when looping chops (which is good as it will force you to fix your technique), and has better control at blocking/driving. The Mercury 2 rubber has a higher throw which is very well suited for learning how to topspin with backhand, and quite descent at blocking and driving as well, and the fiber glass layer in the E-3 VB is to control what carbon/arylate is to attack.

Now, I'm looking to throw together an euro style equivalent for a coworker, and my experience with sriver has been very positive. Unfortunately, my coworker doesn't want to pay 40 bucks a sheet, so I am looking for Chinese non-tacky alternatives with medium throw and high gears. I'm hoping someone here can recommend some good options? I'm considering the Yinhe moon or the focus 3 snipe or anything else you guys can recommend would make a good alternative to sriver!

Like sriver,ktl rapid speed. Softer version is ktl rapid soft.

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[fais]

I forgot about the KTL rubbers. Thank you for reminding me.

 

[Der_Echte]

Haha all this Sriver/Mark V stuff makes me laugh so hard, like it is the ONLY two rubbers you can slap on a bat and learn haha.

Still, the CATEGORY of the rubbers always mentioned is correct - an OFFENSIVE ALLROUND rubber capable of doing all shots well with control is what you are looking after... (but NONE of them exceptionally well) and there are MANY rubbers that fit that. EVERY TT manufacturer makes one or more of such a rubber.

 

[Jaru]

Here is some info to add to the discussion. It is true, I have heard people say to start out with the blade that is the one you want to end up with and grow into it. But I actually have not heard that from someone I really thought had their head screwed on fully straight or who had the student's best interest in mind.

Several years ago, I was trying to help a friend look for a blade that would be good for him. His technique totally sucked and he he was try to decide between the TB ALC and the TB ZLC.

At the time I was using a Clipper and thought what I had was great.

I asked two friends who are pros, who are coaches and who I trust what they thought.

Both of these players grew up in Europe in two different countries. Both were on their countries national team as juniors. Both of them told me pretty much exactly the same thing. And neither of them knew I asked the other.

This is what they said. For someone who is learning and wants to get better, they would be best off with a 5 ply all wood blade with good feeling and good dwell time that is in the All+ to Off- speed range. They both recommended that, if the person was completely a beginner, it was usually better to start with a classic rubber like Sriver or Mark V and a softer version like FX to learn how to get the ball so the topsheet could grab the ball more fully.

They also said that when a player is past the beginner stage, newer technology rubbers on that same blade should be fine.

They both told me that when they are a kid, they did not get a choice. Their coach gave them a racket with rubbers on it and the setup was chosen based on their skills. One of them said: "the coach just walked up to me and said: here, this is your racket." And they weren't supposed to use anything else.

In the discussion with that pro, he said that, if a player doesn't really care about getting better and just wants to get something that makes him happy, then he can get whatever he wants. But if he wants to get better, the blade should be all wood, 5 ply and All+ to Off- speed.

He also said a few more things. He said he liked softer blades like the Primorac Off-. He said he didn't like too many Stiga blades because they make them too head heavy. And he said that usually a player's technique gets good enough to use anything at around the 2100-2200 (USATT) level. He said it did depend on the player but somewhere in that range the technique solidifies and that, if the player is playing someone better than them who is able to break down their game, that, even though they get beat and their game gets broken down, their technique does not break down under that pressure. They are just over matched. And a little bit lower level, the technique would fall apart a but while their game was being broken down.

Then he said that this was not always true and he pointed out two players we both know who are very good, who are 2150-2250 range whose technique totally sucks but they are doing something else that makes them that level.

So we both laughed about this one. @NextLevel: you definitely know who one of them is. Hahahahaha.

Hope this helps.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

Great to hear conformation of what i heard from coaches here in the UK!

This led me to my Primorac OFF- with Sriver FX 2.1 on both sides setup and got to say its has resulted in a hugely improved my rate for learning new techniques

 

[fais]

I helped my coworker build her paddle. She went with the nittaku tenaly carbon, tenergy 64 backhand and tenergy 64fx forehand.

She has her fundamentals down as far as stroke mechanics, but never running multiball with her, so her stroke selection was always off and her footwork I couldn't correct. Until...

Yesterday,I took away her paddle and gave her mine (Yinhe e3vb stuff I've been harping on lately), told her to "feel the ball with every single shot" and "hit, bounce, bounce" with every shot... and by gosh she got it! Her shot selection was near perfect after 30 minutes of hitting, and she started to return with great softness and touch my full out loop drives I ripper her way (before she couldn't return anything past 40% of my max capacity). When she took her paddle back, this didn't change, and she was spot on, her timing nigh impeccable.

My point is this- I cannot emphasize enough on what UDC and the rest are saying when it comes to beginners equipment. I disagree with a passion and experience with the idea of "only train with what you will use". This was my mentality too and if held me (and my coworker) back for a long time. Any equipment that is well rounded (doesn't excell at one thing), has a solid feel, and enough gears, is tantamount to improving.

 

[TT_Rogue]

Just dont play chinese rubbers... seriously just dont.
Buy a nice Donic Wood like : Donic Appelgren ALLPLAY ALL . perfect for beginners. cheap, easy to handle, light weight
Rubbers: Any actual rubber from Donic or Tibhar will fit. Forehand 1,8. Backhand 1,5

Stop testing any other equipment since you need to build technique and always remember material doesnt make a player

 

[fais]

Just dont play chinese rubbers... seriously just dont.
Buy a nice Donic Wood like : Donic Appelgren ALLPLAY ALL . perfect for beginners. cheap, easy to handle, light weight
Rubbers: Any actual rubber from Donic or Tibhar will fit. Forehand 1,8. Backhand 1,5

Stop testing any other equipment since you need to build technique and always remember material doesnt make a player

I don't think you can play with Chinese rubbers without boosting, otherwise everything about the rubber feels dead. If you do decide to boost/glue, then be prepared for a lot of grunt work, spending extra time and effort just to play.

Edit: I should add that boosting not for the purpose of enhancing spin and speed. Boosting for the purpose of enhancing control and feedback, so the rubber tells the player when he/she does it right or when he/she messes up, because even the factory tuned DHS neo rubbers don't provide enough control and feedback, especially for beginners.