Which Butterfly Blade for Offensive Play with Rozena

[PakDa1988]

Hi together

I am very interested in your opinions and experiences to my current situation.

At the moment I am playing a Butterfly Korbel with Butterfly Rozena (FH 2.1 / BH 1.9).
In my youth i played around seven years at a very decent level and got a good technical coaching from different coaches.
I stopped playing at 19 and started again at 34, at the beginning of the year.
So now I am playing for three months and level of play is becoming better every day (around 1500TTR in Germany) but with potential for more.

Playing type:
Offensive on both sides, preferably close to the table. Try to make the points often over the opening Topspin and the following shot. Preferably with FH and BH topspin on backspin, this is my approach and strength. Waiting a long time, or playing along/counteracting for a long time is not my strength.
FH stronger side, I can also play decent topspin with the BH, but I still prefer to use it strategically at the table to prepare the TS on FH, e.g. by placing / pushing / slightly looping and topspin.


To my question:
Which blade from Butterfly can support my style of play and strengths the most?
At the moment I am playing with the Korbel (All Wood).
There’s also the Primorac All Wood in their lineup.
Or maybe something like Innerforce Layer ALC.S?

Will these blades performe totally different with the Rozena Rubbers?
Would be nice to hear your thoughts and experiences on that.

Thank you

 

[TensorBackhand]

Hi together

I am very interested in your opinions and experiences to my current situation.

At the moment I am playing a Butterfly Korbel with Butterfly Rozena (FH 2.1 / BH 1.9).
In my youth i played around seven years at a very decent level and got a good technical coaching from different coaches.
I stopped playing at 19 and started again at 34, at the beginning of the year.
So now I am playing for three months and level of play is becoming better every day (around 1500TTR in Germany) but with potential for more.

Playing type:
Offensive on both sides, preferably close to the table. Try to make the points often over the opening Topspin and the following shot. Preferably with FH and BH topspin on backspin, this is my approach and strength. Waiting a long time, or playing along/counteracting for a long time is not my strength.
FH stronger side, I can also play decent topspin with the BH, but I still prefer to use it strategically at the table to prepare the TS on FH, e.g. by placing / pushing / slightly looping and topspin.


To my question:
Which blade from Butterfly can support my style of play and strengths the most?
At the moment I am playing with the Korbel (All Wood).
There’s also the Primorac All Wood in their lineup.
Or maybe something like Innerforce Layer ALC.S?

Will these blades performe totally different with the Rozena Rubbers?
Would be nice to hear your thoughts and experiences on that.

Thank you

There's really no blade that wouldn't work with Rozena. But I see a lot of people using Butterfly ALC blades with Rozena. Sometimes I see ZLC blades.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Falcima
Korbel
Primorac
SK7
Timo
Innerforce is also good.

 

[jk1980]

I think the ALC.S sounds exactly like what would go well with your style. It will be a speed upgrade, but not too much.

 

[PakDa1988]

Thanks for your first answers.

Interesting that all of you mention Korbel and Primorac as well.
What will be the differences in play between those two combined with the Rozenas?

@jk1980
Sounds good.
Why do you think the ALC.S might be a better solution than the all-wood Primorac or Korbel for my type of game?
Will there be more differences than the speed?
From the Butterfly fact sheet the ALC.S has lower ratings than a Korbel all-wood

 

[jk1980]

the ALC.S is specifically designed to support a spin based game, with ALC supporting with power while the "S" can stand for Spruce which is the layer above the ALC which should give better spin capability.

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi together

I am very interested in your opinions and experiences to my current situation.

At the moment I am playing a Butterfly Korbel with Butterfly Rozena (FH 2.1 / BH 1.9).
In my youth i played around seven years at a very decent level and got a good technical coaching from different coaches.
I stopped playing at 19 and started again at 34, at the beginning of the year.
So now I am playing for three months and level of play is becoming better every day (around 1500TTR in Germany) but with potential for more.

Playing type:
Offensive on both sides, preferably close to the table. Try to make the points often over the opening Topspin and the following shot. Preferably with FH and BH topspin on backspin, this is my approach and strength. Waiting a long time, or playing along/counteracting for a long time is not my strength.
FH stronger side, I can also play decent topspin with the BH, but I still prefer to use it strategically at the table to prepare the TS on FH, e.g. by placing / pushing / slightly looping and topspin.


To my question:
Which blade from Butterfly can support my style of play and strengths the most?
At the moment I am playing with the Korbel (All Wood).
There’s also the Primorac All Wood in their lineup.
Or maybe something like Innerforce Layer ALC.S?

Will these blades performe totally different with the Rozena Rubbers?
Would be nice to hear your thoughts and experiences on that.

Thank you

Out of interest, what are you not getting enough of from the Korbel?

 

[PakDa1988]

I play the Korbel and would like to test something from the Carbon range to see if and what it can do for my game.
My game is more topspin orientated, closer to the table and I'm looking for quick points, especially with the FH topspin.

In game situations, I sometimes have the feeling that it's a bit too fast for me with the Korbel (especially with passive balls like push & block on topspin). When opening to backspin, it doesn't always feel so smooth, but rather hard and somehow clumsy. I sometimes lack the smooth feeling in the openings.
When replaying (2nd/3rd topspin on block or counter), the direct / hard feeling is great.

Now, with the Innerforce AlC.S, I was happy to see that both values given by BTY (speed, hardness) are slightly lower than with the all-wood Korbel.
In addition, it should be very suitable especially for opening with topspins?

Then it says that it could have a larger sweet spot than the Korbel due to the structure, which could also be an advantage?

So I'm looking for a blade that plays nice and sensitive when opening with topspin, but still has direct and not so spongy properties when replaying (topspin follow-up, counterattack, shot).
In addition, it should give me a lot of control with passive balls (push, block, light counterattack) and possibly play a little more safe than the Korbel.

 

[disaster3]

as above, Korbel is a decent off blade, as we are not pro's I'm really curios why we are looking for hybrid blades instead of improving skill on all-wood and if we would like to increase speed change (not speedy) Rozena to something faster (there are dozens rubbers) still on Korbel?
Yesterday I checked my new Acoustic + Rozena's compared to Primorac with T05/T64 and I gave it to my friend which I was playing, and his opinion was the Primo with Tenergies was fast as hell in close and mid-distance play. How can I handle it?
As a reminder Primo is -OFF blade and consider not really fast.
Getting back to the topic, will still stick to the Korbel unless EJ isn't switched-on and would change the rubbers to increase speed.

 

[PakDa1988]

as above, Korbel is a decent off blade, as we are not pro's I'm really curios why we are looking for hybrid blades instead of improving skill on all-wood and if we would like to increase speed change (not speedy) Rozena to something faster (there are dozens rubbers) still on Korbel?
Yesterday I checked my new Acoustic + Rozena's compared to Primorac with T05/T64 and I gave it to my friend which I was playing, and his opinion was the Primo with Tenergies was fast as hell in close and mid-distance play. How can I handle it?
As a reminder Primo is -OFF blade and consider not really fast.
Getting back to the topic, will still stick to the Korbel unless EJ isn't switched-on and would change the rubbers to increase speed.

Thank you for you answer.
Maybe you didn't read my post above yours. I am not looking for an increase in speed.

 

[merlin el mago]

If your are looking for more spin, look for 7 layers all wood with enough flex to loop.

 

[Kopp]

Which blade from Butterfly can support my style of play and strengths the most?

There nothing else but your existing Korbel, stick to it. But why must from 🦋? Have you considered XIOM Novus series? It much cheaper than 🦋 and great quality.

XIOM official link 👇
All-round S
Offensive S
Extreme S (7-ply)
Homepage

 

[Kopp]

as above, Korbel is a decent off blade, ..
Getting back to the topic, will still stick to the Korbel unless EJ isn't switched-on and would change the rubbers to increase speed.

💯

 

[Wrighty67]

I play the Korbel and would like to test something from the Carbon range to see if and what it can do for my game.
My game is more topspin orientated, closer to the table and I'm looking for quick points, especially with the FH topspin.

In game situations, I sometimes have the feeling that it's a bit too fast for me with the Korbel (especially with passive balls like push & block on topspin). When opening to backspin, it doesn't always feel so smooth, but rather hard and somehow clumsy. I sometimes lack the smooth feeling in the openings.
When replaying (2nd/3rd topspin on block or counter), the direct / hard feeling is great.

Now, with the Innerforce AlC.S, I was happy to see that both values given by BTY (speed, hardness) are slightly lower than with the all-wood Korbel.
In addition, it should be very suitable especially for opening with topspins?

Then it says that it could have a larger sweet spot than the Korbel due to the structure, which could also be an advantage?

So I'm looking for a blade that plays nice and sensitive when opening with topspin, but still has direct and not so spongy properties when replaying (topspin follow-up, counterattack, shot).
In addition, it should give me a lot of control with passive balls (push, block, light counterattack) and possibly play a little more safe than the Korbel.

I am no expert, but I have tried many blades and rubbers, including many inner and outer carbon blades (Inner ALC/ZLC/Viscaria/Boll/HL5 etc.)

Currently I am back using an all wood blade (Falcima) and Rozena - for my developing game right now it offers the right balance of speed and control with great feedback so I can better feel what I am doing.

If you find the Korbel too fast in any area, I don't think a carbon blade of any sort is your solution - even the Innerforce ALC is faster in practice and offers less linearity than an all wood blade like the Korbel.

If you want something with slower touch and smoother feel then you might enjoy something like a Nittaku Violin or an OSP Virtuoso - as these are both fantastic blades offering great control, spin and feel.

If you are struggling with control in short game vs push/block using a Korbel then this may indicate a technique issue?

Just my 2c having spent a lot of time and money on blades

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I am no expert, but I have tried many blades and rubbers, including many inner and outer carbon blades (Inner ALC/ZLC/Viscaria/Boll/HL5 etc.)

Currently I am back using an all wood blade (Falcima) and Rozena - for my developing game right now it offers the right balance of speed and control with great feedback so I can better feel what I am doing.

If you find the Korbel too fast in any area, I don't think a carbon blade of any sort is your solution - even the Innerforce ALC is faster in practice and offers less linearity than an all wood blade like the Korbel.

If you want something with slower touch and smoother feel then you might enjoy something like a Nittaku Violin or an OSP Virtuoso - as these are both fantastic blades offering great control, spin and feel.

If you are struggling with control in short game vs push/block using a Korbel then this may indicate a technique issue?

Just my 2c having spent a lot of time and money on blades

Or you could have spend the money to hire a coach... seems to be a better return on investment for me.

 

[PakDa1988]

Thank you all for your answers and opinions.
So I guess I should stay with the all-wood Korbel?

I think most of you are right that I have to improve my technique first before switching to another blade.
I am playing now for three month, and I guess there’s a lot of work to do first. Even if I have played at a decent level in my youth.

To my „problems“ or feelings with the Korbel.
I like the handle and feel of the blade in my hand. Should i stay with it or maybe try another blade like the Primorac (all wood) which should be a little slower and softer?
Or can my current problems go away as well when proceeding with the Korbel and train a lot?

Which way would you choose?

 

[Wrighty67]

Thank you all for your answers and opinions.
So I guess I should stay with the all-wood Korbel?

I think most of you are right that I have to improve my technique first before switching to another blade.
I am playing now for three month, and I guess there’s a lot of work to do first. Even if I have played at a decent level in my youth.

To my „problems“ or feelings with the Korbel.
I like the handle and feel of the blade in my hand. Should i stay with it or maybe try another blade like the Primorac which should be a little slower and softer?
Or can my current problems go away as well when proceeding with the Korbel and train a lot?

Which way would you choose?

I think your decision is a good one - if it were me I would stick with the Korbel and the Rozena and work on technique. There is no reason it should not do all you need of it. Good luck!

 

[PakDa1988]

Thanks for feedback! 👍
Are there any other opinions about Korbel -vs- Primorac?
Stay with Korbel or giving a bit slower and softer Primorac a try?
Regarding my situation and style of play.

Thanks a lot

 

[mightymouse]

Here is my take on your original questions (your first post):

Let's use Korbel as the reference blade.

If you want to have slower blades, then Primorac Off- and Innerforce Layer ALC.S are good. They have the same thickness of 5.5 mm, compared to 5.9 mm for Korbel. Both are slower, with Primorac Off- is the slower of the three (but same wood composition with Korbel). Innerforce Layer ALC.S has spruce - spruce - ALC - core - ALC - spruce - spruce (IIRC). So different composition compared to Korbel.

If you want to have faster blades (which I don't recommend as you are just starting to play again), then:

For allwood --> Falcima (same composition with Korbel with the exception that top ply is koto), Butterfly SK7 Classic (or BTY Korbel SK7) which is quite thick (~6.7 - 6.8 mm).

For innerforce type --> Innerforce Layer ALC (speed rating only 0.1 higher on BTY scale, compared to Korbel) and Innerforce Layer ZLC (speed rating only 0.1 lower on BTY scale, compared to Korbel).

However, if you go for the specification of the blade, Innerforce Layer ALC seems to be the most similar to Korbel because it has the same thickness (and wood composition) with ALC next to the core. Innerforce Layer ZLC is thinner (~0.3 mm thinner) so I think ZLC type will not be similar to Korbel (in term of feel). However, to my amazement, many players who play with Korbel currently upgrade to Innerforce Layer ZLC type of blades. So I guess Innerforce Layer ZLC is a more natural progression (after using Korbel) for more players?

Now, for your last question (in your last post): "Stay with Korbel or giving a bit slower and softer Primorac a try?"
I would say: STAY with Korbel. It's a bit stiffer and faster but the difference is not that big (nothing that you can't handle). But Korbel is a blade that you can use for your whole life. If you choose Primorac Off-, in the future you might upgrade to Korbel eventually.

The most important thing now is to practice regularly as much as you can. Korbel or Primorac are both good, but the reason I advised you to stay with Korbel is because you already have it. You don't need to buy a new one. Use the money to hire a good coach.

 

[PakDa1988]

@mightymouse
Thank you very much for you great answer.
You took a big amount of time to give me help for my current situation.
Besides it helped me a lot to learn more about the differences between the Korbel and the "similar" BTY ranked carbon blades.

So i will now stay with the Korbel. I really like the handle and feel of the blade!
I will now play for the next weeks with Rozena (2.1 FH 1.9 BH). If I have the feeling of a bit too much of speed or insecurity, maybe I can go down to 1.9 on FH. But I guess, for my FH spin orientated game, this won't be a very good move maybe

Thanks a lot, again!