Which way to go from Bluestorm Z2 for slower and higher arc ???

[Sanniejop]

Hi All,
I am currently playing with Bluestorm Z2 on both sides.
Was looking to go back to a slower and preferably higher arc Donic rubber.
From one catalog graph I concluded that I would need to go to a Bluefire M rubber (red curve)
But from a graph on the Donic website I would conclude that I need the Z1 (turbo) but it is rated as a faster rubber than Z2?
I am a bit confused now.
Both graphs seems to be contradictory.
Which Donic rubber must I choose for a slower / higher arc rubber compared to Bluestorm Z2 ???

By the way, I am using the Waldner Senso Carbon blade...

Thanks for your advice

 

[Zezima]

Don't focus too much on this. You won't produce the same result with your technique anyway.

What you need to understand is how the rubber should be and what kind of topsheet you like more.

The rest is about technique swingpath racket angle how much forwards/upwards you brush. Whats your brush speed etc.
Also writing down what happens right now when you topspin (against which ball?) also helps clarifying that. Best would be if you have a video of yourself. Because it might be a technical problem that can't be solved just by changing the rubbers.
But without all that info I would suggest M2 or if you want to stay within the same family then Z3

 

[Sanniejop]

Also writing down what happens right now when you topspin (against which ball?) also helps clarifying that.

My biggest struggle at the moment is handling very high side spin serves. Mostly I am able to correct the direction but the balls sometimes fly just over the tables end. So I thought a slower rubber would help.

I am now trying to reduce the return speed by moving my own bat backwards while hitting the ball, but this feels very unnatural. Also trying to hit "with" the spin. But I am quite new to the sport (< 1 year) so still practicing . I started with this setup which is maybe a bit opportunistic.

 

[Zezima]

My biggest struggle at the moment is handling very high side spin serves. Mostly I am able to correct the direction but the balls sometimes fly just over the tables end. So I thought a slower rubber would help.

I am now trying to reduce the return speed by moving my own bat backwards while hitting the ball, but this feels very unnatural. Also trying to hit "with" the spin. But I am quite new to the sport (< 1 year) so still practicing . I started with this setup which is maybe a bit opportunistic.

Yeah this is definetly a big understanding issue. I assume you have no coach or good players in your club who can teach you how to return that particular serve?

But basically you need to recognize first that the sidespin has topspin on the ball aswell. Once we see that we have to close the bat angle a bit lets say 45°. Now we shorten the backstroke a bit. We are not using much power by preparing a large stroke. It needs to be short and compact. The bat still has to be lower than the ball. Then you accelerate tiny bit hit the ball tangential and focus on aiming towards the middle of the table (for the start).
Keep in mind the height difference between the ball and your racket should be in a way that your racketface is completely below the ball not further or higher than that.

Other option would be hitting the ball "flatter" and just using the hip rotation into the ball and just aim towards the middle hitting the ball at its peak point.

knowing this and you want to change your rubbers m2 would be a good downgrade for the start and should be easier.

 

[MarekD]

If you require a higher arc and lower stroke speed, I would recommend the Donic Bluegrip S1.

 

[Sanniejop]

But basically you need to recognize first that the sidespin has topspin on the ball aswell. Once we see that we have to close the bat angle a bit lets say 45°. Now we shorten the backstroke a bit. We are not using much power by preparing a large stroke. It needs to be short and compact. The bat still has to be lower than the ball. Then you accelerate tiny bit hit the ball tangential and focus on aiming towards the middle of the table (for the start).
Keep in mind the height difference between the ball and your racket should be in a way that your racketface is completely below the ball not further or higher than that.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Indeed i have not a reel coach and i play at a very small club. I try to implement your instructions in my first following training.

@MarekD I am hesitating to switch to a tacky rubber. I never played with it. Does it require a much different technic?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hi All,
I am currently playing with Bluestorm Z2 on both sides.
Was looking to go back to a slower and preferably higher arc Donic rubber.
From one catalog graph I concluded that I would need to go to a Bluefire M rubber (red curve)
But from a graph on the Donic website I would conclude that I need the Z1 (turbo) but it is rated as a faster rubber than Z2?
I am a bit confused now.
Both graphs seems to be contradictory.
Which Donic rubber must I choose for a slower / higher arc rubber compared to Bluestorm Z2 ???

By the way, I am using the Waldner Senso Carbon blade...

Thanks for your advice

View attachment 40072View attachment 40073

Donic Baracuda

Just visually look at the ball flight path from the video. It is so high!

 

[MarekD]

@MarekD I am hesitating to switch to a tacky rubber. I never played with it. Does it require a much different technic?

You don't need any special skills. The game with a hybrid will be slower and have a higher arc.
The hardness of the sponge is roughly the same for both rubbers.

 

[Sanniejop]

Desicions, desicions.
I quite inexperienced. Since I have started playing I only played with my current bat. Trying someone elses out for a few minutes does not really help me. I need more time to adjust. I find it difficult to estimate what for difference can be expected when changing from blade and/or rubber. I dont want to spend alot of money by making a to small change. E.g. will only go to a thinner sponge make a big difference. So I want a significant step back in speed and jumpyness from BS Z2.

Options i am considering,
1. Staying with BS but then with the Z3 and/or Big Slam versions and lower thickness. Will this give a noticeable/significant change in speed or is it fine tuning?
2. The Bluefire range is told to me to be a bit slower. Also then i would go for the softer sponge versions M2/M3.
I am affraid this will be not so different compared to Bluestorm, or is it???

In both cases 1. and 2. I would go for the medium sponge thickness respectivily 2.1/2.0 mm.

As last option I was thinking of making the step to,
3. Acuda S2, 2.0mm on FH and 1.8 on BH.

Since my Waldner senso carbon blade is rated arr+/off-/off i was also thinking of buying a different blade that is a bit slower. Was thinking about the Appelgren All+ WC89, that is Arr+/off-. Or will this difference to small to notice? Not worth the money? Or the DO true carbon inner which is quite a bit cheaper, also rated arr+/off- (but is way faster spec. but according reviews not so fast)

Can some body give my some guidance here? Think it is really needed to step down in speed. I know maybe it can be fixed by technic but i have the reflex that i want to hit towards the ball (also when i really want to do this as little as possible) Also in the match last night again. Balls just flying a little bit over the table. I said i needed to close my bat more but my competetor said i needed not to hit the ball. Pffff.....

Sorry for the long post, but i wanted to be complete in describing my struggle.
Thanks alot for reading if you came so far.

P.S. for the short term i want to stay away from the hybrid/tacky rubbers. Dont ask me why, it is my gut feeling.

 

[Sanniejop]

But basically you need to recognize first that the sidespin has topspin on the ball aswell. Once we see that we have to close the bat angle a bit lets say 45°. Now we shorten the backstroke a bit. We are not using much power by preparing a large stroke. It needs to be short and compact. The bat still has to be lower than the ball. Then you accelerate tiny bit hit the ball tangential and focus on aiming towards the middle of the table (for the start).
Keep in mind the height difference between the ball and your racket should be in a way that your racketface is completely below the ball not further or higher than that.

This week I practiced with this. And guess what, tonight I won from the guy that uses that nasty surf that I struglled with. He uses a very heavy side spin pendulum serve (RH). To let the ball land on the table I really needed, beside angeling the bat to the left, also to sway my bat to the left. Hitting it softly was better than passive block.
But @Zezima you say my bat should start under the ball, but the service is quite short so I have to touch above the table. Than it is practicaly impossible to start below the ball?

Now sometimes it also has backspin. How should I handle that? I tried to angle the bat to the left and then to retract the bat backwards during the hit to reduce the catapult effect. It worked to slow down the ball but most of the time the return was quite high, easy ball for other side of the table.
I guess this is not the best way to handle this......?
Any tips for heavy side under spin?

I am now convinced that by improving my technic it is the fastest (and cheapest) way to improve. Maybe I only need to go from Z2 to Z3 or BigSlam to make it a bit more controlable. Would those 5° in hardness make a big difference? I have no experience on this. I am playing with my first custom (serious) TT bat. Or would going down in sponge thickness already help alot in control?