Why amateur players should avoid fast gear and where power really comes from in table tennis.

[NextLevel]

This is an advanced way of thinking.
Did you learn with fast Carbon and fast rubbers?
In fact this is a question to anyone who is ignoring the point in the OPs post.
Who has actually learned from the beginning with fast carbon and fast rubbers?
And conversely who has been trying to learn the game (perhaps like so many people, without coaching) and found themselves in a situation where they could not control their equipment?

No its not.
Imagine you trying to learn good technique. Imagine you don't have it. How is a blade that's more forgiving going to make it harder to learn the right way of doing things?
I'm not saying it cannot be done with Carbon, I'm asking why the other way is a bad idea. The answer is it's not.

And this is exactly the situation the OP described where so many people get exasperated and often give up. The counter to it is someone having a more controlled setup and being able to enjoy themselves at this same stage.

So you get to land the ball and have fun rather than get pissed off and stop playing.

"Fast carbon and fast rubbers" is an interesting thing - there was a time when anything carbon was sometimes called fast, but fast blades was often a term restricted to Gergelys, Primorac Carbons and Sardiuses - in other words, extremely stiff T5000 blades. Viscarias and other ALC blades were far more debatable. And now there are lots of hybrid rubbers, so you aren't always combining a fast blade with Tenergy 05, you can combine it with a sticky rubber to get a spinny combo. A Grubba Carbon was a reasonable blade. Carbon wasn't the problem, extreme stiffness and speed was.

I know at least one coach who recommended Innerforce blades to even his beginner students with now Rozena or then T05. My coach wanted me to switch and said it wouldn't make a difference, I was the one who never did it, especially because I hated Koto. The main reason I didn't use carbon was because 1) I was a cheap EJ when I played and 2) I was primarily a blocker and 3) with the 40mm ball, quite a few world class players still used Korbels and all wood blades. There was a good argument that using a carbon blade with the 40mm ball was playing with a brick if you didn't have a certain level of feeling, but I did fine with innerforce blades and even limba carbon blades, I just EJed a lot so never used anything consistently.

I have coached kids and adult beginners with Viscarias and they have played fine. I never felt their issues were equipment related but they also didn't play enough to stick with the game for years, but as hitting partners, many people were impressed with their ball and spin control in practice, so any match issues were more about their competitive mindsets. Many players, including adult learners, in the 1000-1500 range in the USA are now using carbon blades, something that coaches might have advised against in some circles 10 -15 years ago.

But style is more important for blade speed than playing level, @Der_Echte will tell you about the Achuma style in Korea where old ladies use Schlager/Axelo speed blades with long pips on backhand to smash fellow relative beginners off the table.

The point about forgiving is noted, but the point is that the lack of coaching is the real issue, not the equipment. It takes a smart guy to figure things out himself, just about everyone who gets good either has mentors or players (formal or informal coaches) and high quality opponents to learn from. And in just about every case of this, the player would have done well using almost anything reasonable.

I can say now with confidence I did myself a disservice using wooden blades for as long as I did, especially with the arrival of the plastic ball, The main issue was just getting better at controlling spin and generating spin with faster blades and that pointed towards training. That said, given that many top players had issues accepting the plastic ball required faster gear, Gauzy being the most notable, I cut myself some slack.

But since you seem to know people who got really good using all wood blades and no coaching, feel free to share your experience.

 

[zeio]

Good content. I think the "hit then brush" metaphor can be useful, but it's also useful (especially with adult learners who like to understand why they're being told to do something) to acknowledge that it's not reflective of physical reality. Contact time between ball and rubber is on the order of 1 millisecond (not a few milliseconds), and given the limitations of nerve conduction velocity and brain computation time it's not physically possible to divide contact into two separate consciously controlled components. In fact, hitting and brushing are not even two distinct ways of contacting the ball, just labels on a continuum of racket angle and swing plane. I prefer a coach to tell me I'm "brushing too much." Others might prefer the "hit then brush" instruction. Whichever works better for you is better. Both mean open the contact angle and/or flatten the swing plane.

Remember the 2 separate studies that support that notion?

 

[NetProphet]

But since you seem to know people who got really good using all wood blades and no coaching, feel free to share your experience.

I didn't say I knew people who got really good without coaching. Or if I did I certainly didn't mean that.
Those that are properly good have all got coaching in the end.
And yours is a coached route also.
But those struggling to enjoy themselves without coaching and turning up to coaching with equipment they cannot control because it's Carbon and fast rubbers I've seen plenty of.
The question here (or point I took from the blog) is would fast stuff have been better or worse for you as you were exploring TT by yourself.
In the end I just see that the OP absolutely has a point because I've actually seen what he describes.
It seems like almost everyone else wants to talk about coached players and then we're at apples and oranges.
I believe from reading this thread that many people just play in better clubs and better, more facilitated environments where coaching is perhaps the norm for them.
From my experience however coaching is a luxury and difficult to find even when you have means and willingness.
So just differing cultures and environments.
I believe too many people are not taking the point from the original post and we're just going in circles but for every player turning up and getting (without coaching) somewhat good because they have natural talent I will still never recommend they go and buy expensive fast equipment.
That imo can onl work if you are going to be getting coaching.
I'll leave it there 😉

 

[NextLevel]

I didn't say I knew people who got really good without coaching. Or if I did I certainly didn't mean that.
Those that are properly good have all got coaching in the end.
And yours is a coached route also.
But those struggling to enjoy themselves without coaching and turning up to coaching with equipment they cannot control because it's Carbon and fast rubbers I've seen plenty of.
The question here (or point I took from the blog) is would fast stuff have been better or worse for you as you were exploring TT by yourself.
In the end I just see that the OP absolutely has a point because I've actually seen what he describes.
It seems like almost everyone else wants to talk about coached players and then we're at apples and oranges.
I believe from reading this thread that many people just play in better clubs and better, more facilitated environments where coaching is perhaps the norm for them.
From my experience however coaching is a luxury and difficult to find even when you have means and willingness.
So just differing cultures and environments.
I believe too many people are not taking the point from the original post and we're just going in circles but for every player turning up and getting (without coaching) somewhat good because they have natural talent I will still never recommend they go and buy expensive fast equipment.
That imo can onl work if you are going to be getting coaching.
I'll leave it there 😉

We all being different experiences to this. I think a lot of coaching advice comes off wisdom that sometimes gets calcidied despite changes. Very few newbies are rich enough to come to a club with a fast blade and when they do, of course they would likely play better with something slower but does that mean that that they should be coached with something slower or they should or can be helped to use what they currently use better if they invest time getting the right experiences with it? Especially with the plastic ball and with my experience coaching n I have shifted from thinking slow down the setup to thinking that they should get coaching on using the setup first before switching. Because the issues cause by fast setups have much more to do with the absence of coaching than somw inherently fast setups will make you play badly issue. Yhe lack of dwell/feedback, quick bounce, you can coaching with the setup and diagnose all these and if after some time, the issues remain yhen you can switch them. I have also seen beginners come into clubs with fast setups and continue to use them and get better with them even with relatively little coaching. Its not common and some buy the setups in an early visit or just have them from Amazon and kaboom, they do better than expected.

But we aren't all saying radically different things other than disagreeing a little over what it means to have a fast setup and ehat that implies vs having a slower one.

 

[Dr Evil]

Remember the 2 separate studies that support that notion?

Yes, cited in the context of an old bb thread. The heart of the matter with regard to "hit then brush" (quoting one of your posts): "What actually happens is that the players' stroke reaches the maximum velocity first in the forward direction moments before contact, and then accelerates through the contact in the upward direction."

Describing this kind of contact as "hit then brush" can be a helpful coaching cue to encourage players to engage the sponge, but it's misleading if taken to imply sequential actions. The hit and brush occur simultaneously, though it's reasonable to conceptualize the brush as a separate action involving the wrist. That's not an ideal description of physical reality, but if it helps then it helps. Also worth noting that the distinction between thin and thick contact depends entirely on the ratio of velocity components—tangential for spin and normal for speed—at the moment of impact, not the timing of when maximum velocity is reached.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I don’t think a super fast setup is recommended for beginners but if they are properly coached and play at least 3 times a week, they can get an OFF blade like inner carbon from the start and play with max rubbers like Rozena or T05 or Fastarc or K3

There is a merit playing with slower rubbers where you MUST learn how to use more body and coordination else there is no power but that’s imo just for a learning phase of 1-2 years.

If you play less than that or have no coaching then too bad… just enjoy your game .

 

[victormanriquey]

The only time I used a wood blade was when I first started. The closest thing I've come to it since is a CNF blade.

That was the most frustrating period - not because of the blade, but because it was hard for me to understanding what I was doing right or wrong. That lasted less than a month before I hired a coach and concurrently changed to a V14 Pro. It didn't feel stupendously different to me, but I wouldn't generalize that to everyone else. Importantly, I used rubbers that were pretty mild.

To me the continuity of being able to use a single blade was a big factor in developing skills. But I was also an athlete, which most table tennis players aren't, and in hindsight I think the biggest contributor to that was footwork. I've never had to think about it, I just did it.

For the beginner it's important to be able to slow things down so you give yourself enough time to think. If I had to think about my feet, which I think is more important than what happens up top, I don't think that initial period would have gone nearly as smoothly. There's just so much going on in table tennis, and beginners can really only think about one thing at at time.

Very much agree to all of the above, specially the part of as a beginner you can only think of one, max 2 things, I can totally relate to that.

Also, yes, feet, the most important, the best technique, but wrong place, and it all breaks

 

[victormanriquey]

What is the hard proof?

Well as we discussed before, I have a lot of evidence from players at my club and regular competitions/tournaments (in the netherlands) that they have either stopped with the sport or that they are lost and confused, party due to equipment. Of course equipment is like 20% and technique 80%, but if the equipment sits in between the technical progress, then that's a problem.

Also, since the launch of my equipment help site, I have received more than 50 messages already on people that are lost in the EJ jungle and don't know what to do. I can show messages if you want, but I hope you can take my word for it, even if it's just the benefit of the doubt

 

[victormanriquey]

I don’t think a super fast setup is recommended for beginners but if they are properly coached and play at least 3 times a week, they can get an OFF blade like inner carbon from the start and play with max rubbers like Rozena or T05 or Fastarc or K3

There is a merit playing with slower rubbers where you MUST learn how to use more body and coordination else there is no power but that’s imo just for a learning phase of 1-2 years.

If you play less than that or have no coaching then too bad… just enjoy your game .

Fully agree with this comment too @Takkyu_wa_inochi , it's either coaching and practice is intense, or just use slow gear to learn and enjoy the game, it's going to take years, maybe a lifetime, so you might as well (just like me, I'm still learning daily) have fun

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Well as we discussed before, I have a lot of evidence from players at my club and regular competitions/tournaments (in the netherlands) that they have either stopped with the sport or that they are lost and confused, party due to equipment. Of course equipment is like 20% and technique 80%, but if the equipment sits in between the technical progress, then that's a problem.

Also, since the launch of my equipment help site, I have received more than 50 messages already on people that are lost in the EJ jungle and don't know what to do. I can show messages if you want, but I hope you can take my word for it, even if it's just the benefit of the doubt

I thought you were saying something else. No doubt that there are lots of people out there who wrongfully blame their equipment for their lack of progress, you are just catering to one end of that demographic with your blog and paid "equipment consulting" service.

 

[victormanriquey]

I thought you were saying something else. No doubt that there are lots of people out there who wrongfully blame their equipment for their lack of progress, you are just catering to one end of that demographic with your blog and paid "equipment consulting" service.

All good Yes, correct.

 

[victormanriquey]

Yes, cited in the context of an old bb thread. The heart of the matter with regard to "hit then brush" (quoting one of your posts): "What actually happens is that the players' stroke reaches the maximum velocity first in the forward direction moments before contact, and then accelerates through the contact in the upward direction."

Describing this kind of contact as "hit then brush" can be a helpful coaching cue to encourage players to engage the sponge, but it's misleading if taken to imply sequential actions. The hit and brush occur simultaneously, though it's reasonable to conceptualize the brush as a separate action involving the wrist. That's not an ideal description of physical reality, but if it helps then it helps. Also worth noting that the distinction between thin and thick contact depends entirely on the ratio of velocity components—tangential for spin and normal for speed—at the moment of impact, not the timing of when maximum velocity is reached.

Thanks for sharing the articles @Dr Evil I didnt see them before.

If im pragmatic, the metaphor definitely helps beginners and people re-learning the technique. This week for example, we were practising this at the club, and they first had to learn the feeling of hitting, just for the sake of feeling. So like 100% hitting and obviously almost no ball landed on the table.

Then they had to apply the upwards brushing that they all knew of into a ratio they felt comfortable with until they had a good cracking/clicking sound with their strokes.

On the other side, I agree that it's just a ratio and that hitting and brushing mostly has to do with racket angle and wrist acceleration before contact. For me it still feels like i kind do both but may just be my head playing tricks on me

 

[Der_Echte]

What happens at the point of contact is definitely influenced by what happens before contact. You can't accelerate your swing to contact speed instantly, so backswing and forward swing determine contact speed as well as contact angle, swing plane, etc. It's also true that your intention (conscious or unconscious) of how precisely to swing will determine all these things, and these things will largely determine what happens on follow through after contact. While follow through has no physical effect on what the ball does after contact, it can often feel like it does because your brain is capable of re-ordering the sequence of events that happen too fast for real-time conscious perception. So when your brain constructs your conscious perception it can feel like the follow through had some effect on the trajectory of the shot, but what actually happens is that your pre-contact intention of how to swing had that effect. The illusion that follow through can effect the flight of the ball can be useful in helping you to adjust future swings because follow through is a necessary part of the feeling your brain anticipates when sending motor instructions for each shot.

Der_Echte gunna hafta run into @Dr Evil in real life sumetime at a big tourney over cheap food and expensive drink.

 

[Der_Echte]

"Fast carbon and fast rubbers" is an interesting thing - there was a time when anything carbon was sometimes called fast, but fast blades was often a term restricted to Gergelys, Primorac Carbons and Sardiuses - in other words, extremely stiff T5000 blades. Viscarias and other ALC blades were far more debatable. And now there are lots of hybrid rubbers, so you aren't always combining a fast blade with Tenergy 05, you can combine it with a sticky rubber to get a spinny combo. A Grubba Carbon was a reasonable blade. Carbon wasn't the problem, extreme stiffness and speed was.

I know at least one coach who recommended Innerforce blades to even his beginner students with now Rozena or then T05. My coach wanted me to switch and said it wouldn't make a difference, I was the one who never did it, especially because I hated Koto. The main reason I didn't use carbon was because 1) I was a cheap EJ when I played and 2) I was primarily a blocker and 3) with the 40mm ball, quite a few world class players still used Korbels and all wood blades. There was a good argument that using a carbon blade with the 40mm ball was playing with a brick if you didn't have a certain level of feeling, but I did fine with innerforce blades and even limba carbon blades, I just EJed a lot so never used anything consistently.

I have coached kids and adult beginners with Viscarias and they have played fine. I never felt their issues were equipment related but they also didn't play enough to stick with the game for years, but as hitting partners, many people were impressed with their ball and spin control in practice, so any match issues were more about their competitive mindsets. Many players, including adult learners, in the 1000-1500 range in the USA are now using carbon blades, something that coaches might have advised against in some circles 10 -15 years ago.

But style is more important for blade speed than playing level, @Der_Echte will tell you about the Achuma style in Korea where old ladies use Schlager/Axelo speed blades with long pips on backhand to smash fellow relative beginners off the table.

The point about forgiving is noted, but the point is that the lack of coaching is the real issue, not the equipment. It takes a smart guy to figure things out himself, just about everyone who gets good either has mentors or players (formal or informal coaches) and high quality opponents to learn from. And in just about every case of this, the player would have done well using almost anything reasonable.

I can say now with confidence I did myself a disservice using wooden blades for as long as I did, especially with the arrival of the plastic ball, The main issue was just getting better at controlling spin and generating spin with faster blades and that pointed towards training. That said, given that many top players had issues accepting the plastic ball required faster gear, Gauzy being the most notable, I cut myself some slack.

But since you seem to know people who got really good using all wood blades and no coaching, feel free to share your experience.

I both praise and cuss @NextLevel preference for choice of blades.

There is no singular correct answer in TT and as Dr. Thomas Sowell sez about solutions to a "problem" that there are only trade-offs. (and NL fully understands this concept)

NL gets that a lot moar than others.

Der_Echte hizz most recent self is empirical evidence that a wood blade middle of the road appropriate can still work damned well. This is in light of Der_Echte performing at top level with ALC or carbon blade tech in hiz past.

There is a paradox that NL understands well, whether he advocates it in this thread or not.

 

[Matteones]

"Fast carbon and fast rubbers" is an interesting thing - there was a time when anything carbon was sometimes called fast, but fast blades was often a term restricted to Gergelys, Primorac Carbons and Sardiuses - in other words, extremely stiff T5000 blades. Viscarias and other ALC blades were far more debatable. And now there are lots of hybrid rubbers, so you aren't always combining a fast blade with Tenergy 05, you can combine it with a sticky rubber to get a spinny combo. A Grubba Carbon was a reasonable blade. Carbon wasn't the problem, extreme stiffness and speed was.

I know at least one coach who recommended Innerforce blades to even his beginner students with now Rozena or then T05. My coach wanted me to switch and said it wouldn't make a difference, I was the one who never did it, especially because I hated Koto. The main reason I didn't use carbon was because 1) I was a cheap EJ when I played and 2) I was primarily a blocker and 3) with the 40mm ball, quite a few world class players still used Korbels and all wood blades. There was a good argument that using a carbon blade with the 40mm ball was playing with a brick if you didn't have a certain level of feeling, but I did fine with innerforce blades and even limba carbon blades, I just EJed a lot so never used anything consistently.

I have coached kids and adult beginners with Viscarias and they have played fine. I never felt their issues were equipment related but they also didn't play enough to stick with the game for years, but as hitting partners, many people were impressed with their ball and spin control in practice, so any match issues were more about their competitive mindsets. Many players, including adult learners, in the 1000-1500 range in the USA are now using carbon blades, something that coaches might have advised against in some circles 10 -15 years ago.

But style is more important for blade speed than playing level, @Der_Echte will tell you about the Achuma style in Korea where old ladies use Schlager/Axelo speed blades with long pips on backhand to smash fellow relative beginners off the table.

The point about forgiving is noted, but the point is that the lack of coaching is the real issue, not the equipment. It takes a smart guy to figure things out himself, just about everyone who gets good either has mentors or players (formal or informal coaches) and high quality opponents to learn from. And in just about every case of this, the player would have done well using almost anything reasonable.

I can say now with confidence I did myself a disservice using wooden blades for as long as I did, especially with the arrival of the plastic ball, The main issue was just getting better at controlling spin and generating spin with faster blades and that pointed towards training. That said, given that many top players had issues accepting the plastic ball required faster gear, Gauzy being the most notable, I cut myself some slack.

But since you seem to know people who got really good using all wood blades and no coaching, feel free to share your experience.

I like this discussion and I find a lot of good pointers in everyone who is posting.

I absolutely agree that every case is different and should be treated differently.

In my experience as a coach in my club (200 + people of all levels) I would say the majority of people (not all of them, the majority) who really need to switch to a more controllable setup are intermediate to upper intermediate level (maybe 1500 to 2000?), especially players who are not under 20 anymore and got too excited and thought they needed a outer carbon missile (edit. viscaria is also an outer carbon mini missile in my view) but (spoiler alert which is really just common sense in my view) really play better with something more controlled (I have adviced this to 5 to 10 people, and all of them came back to me after some time happier with their play).

The ones who need faster and more rigid blades are either users of short pimples or very fringe playstyles. And of course all the young ones who are improving (here our policy is starting with korbel or something similar + fastarc c1, then they switch to some harder rubbers and then when they are ready, which to us is at least an 1800 or similar level, they can experiment with whatever feels better to them, usually some combination of inner or outer with various degrees of rubbers, they can choose themselves).

The vast majority of amateurs who never even reach a 1800 level, in my view, do not really benefit from any carbon. But they still can use it because in the end, if they have fun with it, they'll get better with it.

Please notice that literally everyone in our club gets coached, no one individually, it's all group sessions, but still coached.

Because our club is more structured and there is always at least one coach in every training session of any level, beginners do not get lost in the EJ, they just use whatever we give them. Almost noone gets lost to EJ really, coaches advise them on what to do.

Now, sometimes the coach gets some EJ bug but someone has to try all those things out there no?

 

[jonyer80]

There's another factor to consider: having a really demanding setup requires not only a solid technique and foundations but also being fit in order to get the most out of it. In other words, I've seen many former great players that can't no longer train as B4 keeping same setup as they where still in their prime. They don't even realize that they can't match to any youngster regardless their equipment since the lack the reaction speed as any individual 20 years younger than you.

I've been 30 years into the game and despite I'm still pretty decent player but that doesn't meant I've come into terms that I have peaked long time ago and would hardly keep improving let alone at my adulthood with barely 3-4 h per week.

In other words: sometimes it's not equipment that dampens our progress but also our sheer limits according to physical, age or circumstances

 

[kapahoo]

There's another factor to consider: having a really demanding setup requires not only a solid technique and foundations but also being fit in order to get the most out of it. In other words, I've seen many former great players that can't no longer train as B4 keeping same setup as they where still in their prime. They don't even realize that they can't match to any youngster regardless their equipment since the lack the reaction speed as any individual 20 years younger than you.

I've been 30 years into the game and despite I'm still pretty decent player but that doesn't meant I've come into terms that I have peaked long time ago and would hardly keep improving let alone at my adulthood with barely 3-4 h per week.

In other words: sometimes it's not equipment that dampens our progress but also our sheer limits according to physical, age or circumstances

This is where long pips usually enters the room. It is always about equipment.

 

[NextLevel]

I like this discussion and I find a lot of good pointers in everyone who is posting.

I absolutely agree that every case is different and should be treated differently.

In my experience as a coach in my club (200 + people of all levels) I would say the majority of people (not all of them, the majority) who really need to switch to a more controllable setup are intermediate to upper intermediate level (maybe 1500 to 2000?), especially players who are not under 20 anymore and got too excited and thought they needed a outer carbon missile (edit. viscaria is also an outer carbon mini missile in my view) but (spoiler alert which is really just common sense in my view) really play better with something more controlled (I have adviced this to 5 to 10 people, and all of them came back to me after some time happier with their play).

The ones who need faster and more rigid blades are either users of short pimples or very fringe playstyles. And of course all the young ones who are improving (here our policy is starting with korbel or something similar + fastarc c1, then they switch to some harder rubbers and then when they are ready, which to us is at least an 1800 or similar level, they can experiment with whatever feels better to them, usually some combination of inner or outer with various degrees of rubbers, they can choose themselves).

The vast majority of amateurs who never even reach a 1800 level, in my view, do not really benefit from any carbon. But they still can use it because in the end, if they have fun with it, they'll get better with it.

Please notice that literally everyone in our club gets coached, no one individually, it's all group sessions, but still coached.

Because our club is more structured and there is always at least one coach in every training session of any level, beginners do not get lost in the EJ, they just use whatever we give them. Almost noone gets lost to EJ really, coaches advise them on what to do.

Now, sometimes the coach gets some EJ bug but someone has to try all those things out there no?

How is playing better/happier measured?

Winning more matches against better players, losing less to worse players etc. Do you have a rating/ranking system and what were the changes as a result of changing equipment? Fewer injuries?

And did any of the players take your advice, see it wasn't working out and then go back to what they were using before?

Ad finally, do any of those players use hybrid rubbers like D09c or Dignics in general?

 

[Matteones]

How is playing better/happier measured?

Winning more matches against better players, losing less to worse players etc. Do you have a rating/ranking system and what were the changes as a result of changing equipment? Fewer injuries?

And did any of the players take your advice, see it wasn't working out and then go back to what they were using before?

Ad finally, do any of those players use hybrid rubbers like D09c or Dignics in general?

Many questions, I'll try to answer them:

When I say "if they have fun with it, they'll get better with it." I mean that I believe through personal enjoyment (however they personally want to measure that, it's subjective) they bring more will to training and playing which is what ultimately gets amateur to become better.

Playing better is measured by their results, yes we have a ranking system and a league system, very structured: local --> regional --> national, played pretty much every weekend for the federated players (who are 60 - 70% of the club members, with the rest being true amateurs of a very low level, tipically 1 year of play, or very old, or very young) from September to June.

No they did not go to what they used before, usually if I give such an advice it's because it is clear the equipment is really a bad choice for them, otherwise I think equipment is anyway a very minor aspect to focus on.
Only the top 2-3 players of our club use D09C or some similar hybrid (both "low level" professionals, playing in various leagues in Europe). We then have 10 professionals and mostly semi-professionals ranked under them, none of whom uses hybrid (with me being at the very bottom of these 10 being the only one who was using hybrids, now I have put a H3). I can tell you exactly which rubbers they are using if you want, it's tenergy05, nittaku genextion, joola dynaryz AGR, ACC, Tenergy 80, one tried zyre and is going back to tenergy 05, dignics 05, Hexer don't remember which one, Tenergy 19, I may forget some more. Most used blade is for sure Viscaria).

Of the following players, let's say the next 20-30 players are high level amateurs (1900 - 2200 USATT more or less I imagine), most of them young (under 25 - with some exception of good players with a lot of experience) who play in lower national league and higher regional leagues, of which one already has a hybrid because we saw it fitting for his game.
Another young player (16-17) who is quite lower level (maybe 1500?) in comparison to the other similar age kids of the same group is using the D09C that one of the top players has gifted him, and he really shouldn't as they are way too hard for him and whilst he sometimes looks good in open rally training exercises, he has very little control in real matches situation.

We luckily don't really have many injuries, and I don't think these are related to equipment in table tennis, just to bad technique.
To see the other side, there is a solid 2000+ player who trains 4 times a week and has solid technique who is still playing with an acoustic inner carbon (which I have no qualms with) with fastarc s1. I have insisted for months before I could finally convince him to pass to c1 at least for forehand. Now when the season ends he'll try g1 he said . For him, I advocate these extremely soft rubbers are really stopping him from progressing faster because he just can't hit the ball hard enough.

 

[NextLevel]

Many questions, I'll try to answer them:

When I say "if they have fun with it, they'll get better with it." I mean that I believe through personal enjoyment (however they personally want to measure that, it's subjective) they bring more will to training and playing which is what ultimately gets amateur to become better.

Playing better is measured by their results, yes we have a ranking system and a league system, very structured: local --> regional --> national, played pretty much every weekend for the federated players (who are 60 - 70% of the club members, with the rest being true amateurs of a very low level, tipically 1 year of play, or very old, or very young) from September to June.

No they did not go to what they used before, usually if I give such an advice it's because it is clear the equipment is really a bad choice for them, otherwise I think equipment is anyway a very minor aspect to focus on.
Only the top 2-3 players of our club use D09C or some similar hybrid (both "low level" professionals, playing in various leagues in Europe). We then have 10 professionals and mostly semi-professionals ranked under them, none of whom uses hybrid (with me being at the very bottom of these 10 being the only one who was using hybrids, now I have put a H3). I can tell you exactly which rubbers they are using if you want, it's tenergy05, nittaku genextion, joola dynaryz AGR, ACC, Tenergy 80, one tried zyre and is going back to tenergy 05, dignics 05, Hexer don't remember which one, Tenergy 19, I may forget some more. Most used blade is for sure Viscaria).

Of the following players, let's say the next 20-30 players are high level amateurs (1900 USATT+ more or less I imagine), most of them young (under 25 - with some exception of good players with a lot of experience) who play in lower national league and higher regional leagues, of which one already has a hybrid because we saw it fitting for his game.
Another young player (16-17) who is quite lower level (maybe 1500?) in comparison to the other similar age kids of the same group is using the D09C that one of the top players has gifted him, and he really shouldn't as they are way too hard for him and whilst he sometimes looks good in open rally training exercises, he has very little control in real matches situation.

We luckily don't really have many injuries, and I don't think these are related to equipment in table tennis, just to bad technique.
To see the other side, there is a solid 2000+ player who trains 4 times a week and has solid technique who is still playing with an acoustic inner carbon (which I have no qualms with) with fastarc s1. I have insisted for months before I could finally convince him to pass to c1 at least for forehand. Now when the season ends he'll try g1 he said . For him, I advocate these extremely soft rubbers are really stopping him from progressing faster because he just can't hit the ball hard enough.

Seems like in Europe you have very strict opinions about equipment. Thanks for elaborating.