Why are rubbers getting harder with ABS balls?

[MOG]

If the balls are harder to spin now.

Why is everyone going for harder rubbers, surely for most players softer rubbers would be/are easier to spin with.

What is the science behind using harder rubbers with harder, slower less spinny balls?

 

[Airoc]

Why is everyone going for harder rubbers, surely for most players softer rubbers would be/are easier to spin with.

On pro level harder rubbers have always been preferred and that´s where the trends started - (even) harder Tensor, hybrid rubbers, faster blades (like SALC instead of ALC).

On amateur level I think many just follow without any real necessity.

And others just carry on regardless.

 

[vvk1]

To make up for the loss of speed resulting from the transition to 40+ balls.

 

[Airoc]

To make up for the loss of speed resulting from the transition to 40+ balls.

Yes of course, but it takes skills to activate a harder rubber, otherwise it won´t be faster.

So the question posed why not more people use the support of a softer rubber with more catapult is valid for amateur level, I think.

 

[Dr Evil]

If the balls are harder to spin now.

Why is everyone going for harder rubbers, surely for most players softer rubbers would be/are easier to spin with.

What is the science behind using harder rubbers with harder, slower less spinny balls?

On contact, energy is transferred from the ball to the rubber and blade. On the rebound some but not all of the energy is returned to the ball; the rest is dissipated in the vibrations you feel and by frictional forces that very slightly heat the rubber and blade. Harder rubbers return more of the energy for several reasons including elastic properties of the rubber itself, more compression of the ball on contact (which acts like another spring), and by preventing more energy from getting transferred to the blade. More energy means more speed and spin, and so harder rubbers can partially compensate for the greater inertia of 40+ balls. You don't have to be a pro player to get more spin with harder rubbers; you just have to be able to make good brushing contact with racket speed sufficient to get the ball to sink into the sponge a little. The "sink in" (i.e., compression of the sponge, which goes along with compression of the ball) increases the surface area of contact, so more grip, and creates the potential for more oblique component forces that return energy in a way that will spin the ball. Softer sponges allow this sink in effect with slower racket speed, so will usually be better for players who are still learning to make brushing contact or with low racket speed.

 

[vvk1]

Yes of course, but it takes skills to activate a harder rubber, otherwise it won´t be faster.

So the question posed why not more people use the support of a softer rubber with more catapult is valid for amateur level, I think.

Because all things being equal, it takes more effort to hit the new ball with the same speed as the old ball when using same rubber. Think about what is needed to activate the "catapult" of the softer rubber too.

 

[Jslick89]

Harder rubber= more speed and spin potential

But there is nuance.

If you swing the paddle slowly, the softer rubber will produce a faster/spinnier ball than the harder rubber

BUT

If you are capable of swinging fast enough to properly engage the rubber, the harder rubbers will produce a spinnier and faster ball than the soft rubbers.

A good analogy:

• Softer rubber is like a soft mattress: if you gently press on it (slow swing), it gives easily and bounces you back with some decent energy. It doesn’t require much force to activate it, so beginners or slower swings get decent speed and spin.
• Harder rubber is like a tight trampoline: if you just lightly step on it (slow swing), it barely moves — not much bounce. But if you jump hard (fast swing), it stores and releases much more energy, launching you higher than the soft mattress ever could. This is why advanced players get more spin and speed from harder rubbers — they can compress it fully with fast, powerful strokes.

 

[igorponger]

Nope. Hard rubbers were purposely designed so as to benefit skilled players allowing both gentle stroke and crazy speedy strokes. A great variativeness in play is possible with hard tensor sponge underneath.
Sure, you must have strong body muscularity inclusive legs, torso and shoulders. Strong man would prefer forceful shots, indeed. 🥰

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

If the balls are harder to spin now.

Why is everyone going for harder rubbers, surely for most players softer rubbers would be/are easier to spin with.

What is the science behind using harder rubbers with harder, slower less spinny balls?

Hi MOG,

• I have noticed that you use T05fx on your FH. Let me relate my experience.
• Once I was at an interclub tourney ( AWAY ) and I had to play against an Asian Ojisan ( in his 70's or at least late 60's ).
• He is using JPen with Battle 2: One side rubber only.
• At that time, I was using Darker Speed 90 with T05fx both side. Soft and super spinny right?
• The thing is, I could not loop a winner pass him because he is just your typical THE WALL aka club push blocker style.
• After that event, I developed for the first time tennis elbow because I was using all my might to spin and by golly the ball was super spinny.
• Unfortunately for me he just casually blocks back with so much control and he was able to move me around like a rag-doll.
• So, it is true, you can spin the ball but can you hit a winner pass the WALL?

 

[Der_Echte]

Harder rubber= more speed and spin potential

But there is nuance.

If you swing the paddle slowly, the softer rubber will produce a faster/spinnier ball than the harder rubber

BUT

If you are capable of swinging fast enough to properly engage the rubber, the harder rubbers will produce a spinnier and faster ball than the soft rubbers.

A good analogy:

• Softer rubber is like a soft mattress: if you gently press on it (slow swing), it gives easily and bounces you back with some decent energy. It doesn’t require much force to activate it, so beginners or slower swings get decent speed and spin.
• Harder rubber is like a tight trampoline: if you just lightly step on it (slow swing), it barely moves — not much bounce. But if you jump hard (fast swing), it stores and releases much more energy, launching you higher than the soft mattress ever could. This is why advanced players get more spin and speed from harder rubbers — they can compress it fully with fast, powerful strokes.

Genau... but @Jslick89 it is MOAR than just pure bat speed... it is also a FIRMING of GRIP right AT IMPACT... more correctly articulated firming right when ball gets into wood...

It also takes a certain impact to penetrate a harder sponged rubber to get into sponge then blade for the bang impact to transfer maximum power to the ball... this is describing your favored counter bang shot, but there are also different impacts for a lower energy slower deadish ball (like on your dead serve that comes back a little high and long that you would like to POUND that sucka all the way to the dog pound.

BTW, I am going to meet @dingyibvs after I am dun coaching in an East bay TTA mid afternoon... you want to go with me and meet him in Pleasanton this Sat? I leave 10:30 and can drive you, he will meet us at his famous garage or at a club nearby to engage more of the Goon Squad.

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi MOG,

• I have noticed that you use T05fx on your FH. Let me relate my experience.
• Once I was at an interclub tourney ( AWAY ) and I had to play against an Asian Ojisan ( in his 70's or at least late 60's ).
• He is using JPen with Battle 2: One side rubber only.
• At that time, I was using Darker Speed 90 with T05fx both side. Soft and super spinny right?
• The thing is, I could not loop a winner pass him because he is just your typical THE WALL aka club push blocker style.
• After that event, I developed for the first time tennis elbow because I was using all my might to spin and by golly the ball was super spinny.
• Unfortunately for me he just casually blocks back with so much control and he was able to move me around like a rag-doll.
• So, it is true, you can spin the ball but can you hit a winner pass the WALL?

Gozo... it is simply because you have not yet figured out how to let ball drop some moar and loosen body/hand and make a real slow and heavy spin loop... This type hates this kind of ball worse than Dracula hates sunlight and garlic.

 

[Der_Echte]

As much as Darker90 is for speed drive monsters, it has enough feel to do slow heavy topspins.

 

[MOG]

Whenever I try harder rubbers I just end of playing faster with less spin.
Unless my opponent also conspires to spin with and against me.

Even Tenergy 05, I just cant get it to spin as much as 05fx.

I would say my brushing technique is half decent at least. I mean it is not great but I am not really a beginner!

 

[kapahoo]

I find harder rubbers easier in the service, receive and the short game over all. But, since I’m a mere amateur, harder to make loopkills on underspin and such. The latter is the fun part of table tennis but winning is nice too….

 

[BlotOnPaper]

Harder rubbers are developed for different kind of technique.

I would say my brushing technique is half decent at least. I mean it is not great but I am not really a beginner!

Classic 90's topspin was all about brush, but with modern ball it's not that practical to do every time. Mostly you would use much more foreward momentum, and with soft rubbers ball would just fly uncontrollably. For me 50° ESN is too soft even for the backhand, when i hit through the ball it just goes too long without much spin. 53° esn is optimal for my backhand and 41° chinese for my forehand.
You can watch any chinese players and analyze with how much sheer force they hit the ball. Brush can be used in some cases, but it is inherently flawed in modern game, it's just too slow and uncontrollable in high speed rallies.

 

[MOG]

sadly I am a 54 year old with weak footwork, cant use hurricane on fh

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

If the balls are harder to spin now.

Why is everyone going for harder rubbers, surely for most players softer rubbers would be/are easier to spin with.

What is the science behind using harder rubbers with harder, slower less spinny balls?

there is speed, spin and control

very soft, will be low speed, low to medium spin, high control
very hard, will be high speed, high spin, low control

for me, softer rubbers are less spin
but players who lack control, they would have more spin on higher control rubbers.

the 40+ ball change isn't just spin loss, but also speed loss.
and this isn't just H3 related solution/answer.

T05 Hard was "custom" spec T05 for many Butterfly players for years, until they made the T05 Hard rubber for example.
You might also want to ask, why no one uses the T05FX version - which is soft.

the moment where you get further away from the table, the drag in the distance/air, with a soft, will give you nothing on the ball.

so it is all relative to your level and how you play/your style.

I'm no scientist, so can't give you the science behind it.