Why do only Chinese players use DHS rubbers?

[turbozed]

I originally came from Chinese rubber and after some lessons with my current coach, he told me to ditch it in favour of Japanese rubber. He said Chinese rubber needs a different kind of play style / body mechanics and he does not know how to teach that. My point is, coach plays a very important part in what equipment a player uses, ultimately.

My coach told me this too when I showed up with Chinese rubber. We're just going through the fundamentals at the moment so everything is fine except when it comes to the FH drive where he keeps telling me to do a more Euro style stroke (keep my elbow close, don't hit through the ball so much).

I don't have the heart to tell him that I eventually will find a coach that understands Chinese rubber to refine my FH technique. And I will sooner be ditching my coach before I ditch hard tacky rubber. Using bouncy rubber is just not enjoyable for me. Even Jupiter 3 was so bouncy for me that I pulled it off my blade after coming home from my first test with it.

 

[Egon]

OP should have rephrase from Non-Chinese to European, meaning why doesn't the ethnic European / Caucasian uses H3?

And I believe the answer is unfamiliarity and no coach who is able to teach chinese style. It is like asking the Ukrainian pilot to fly F35 / F18 or Nato pilot to fly MIGs. Same analogy.

Wrong analogy at the expense of the pilots. Our pilots do not fly the F35 just because we do not have these aircraft.

 

[NextLevel]

People overthink all this Chinese vs European rubber stuff. My first coach told me to ditch the tacky rubber I had back then as well. And this was in 2011 by the way with the old ball. I went back and forth between tacky rubbers and non-tacky rubbers over many years because I never fully appreciated my technical inadequacy. Now I can use anything I want and the gap isn't as big as some people think because DHS is also improving its sponge range just as ESN and Butterfly already did. Using Hurricane 8, you might just as well be using an European rubber iMHO. In addition, the proper technical use of the body for more shots is better appreciated and this reduces the role of the rubber on generating power shots significantly and brings the focus back to whether you feel you are consistent enough with your power and touch on a wider range of shots not just ones off the table.

One of the guys with the worst forehands for a pro that I can remember technique wise was Keinath and he used tacky rubber (Haifu) on his forehand.

I can tell you that if you use anything long enough you will adjust. The problem is that most people will first see the drop in speed/spin when they use a tacky rubber and may find that disconcerting. But what they may not realize is that as long as you don't overuse the wrong joints you will compensate and be able to produce a wider range of shots because you will have more control and be able to hit many balls harder because the ball won't fly off as quickly. And as you learn to impact the ball bette, on the most powerful shots, if you are sufficiently athletic, your ball quality will be much higher because tou will be able to counter balls powerfully that less tacky rubber might not hold as well.

But my main point here is that I never had a coach show me how to survive tacky rubber. I bought it, played with it, didn't have an off the table game that relied on speed, learned the pros and cons on flat shots and spin shots and adapted to it over time. Anyone can do this as long as their concern isn't their immediate results.

And while many people praise tacky rubbers, there players who improved when they stopped using them. Kou Lei of the Ukraine is one such story. So don't let a desire to play like Ma Long prevent you from looking objectively at what you play best with. But if you want to switch, give yourself time to adapt. But if your technique is stable and doesn't overuse the upper arm, it can be done over a few months. Some shots will get better, others will get worse, andnocer the few months you have to be patient to make the worse shots tolerable.

 

[NextLevel]

My coach told me this too when I showed up with Chinese rubber. We're just going through the fundamentals at the moment so everything is fine except when it comes to the FH drive where he keeps telling me to do a more Euro style stroke (keep my elbow close, don't hit through the ball so much).

I don't have the heart to tell him that I eventually will find a coach that understands Chinese rubber to refine my FH technique. And I will sooner be ditching my coach before I ditch hard tacky rubber. Using bouncy rubber is just not enjoyable for me. Even Jupiter 3 was so bouncy for me that I pulled it off my blade after coming home from my first test with it.

This is a bit weird to me. The ball quality is the ball quality. If the coach focuses on the ball quality, the technique isn't as big a deal. But that said, be wary of the possibility that you may be overusing the upper arm. Keeping you elbow close to your body is not the defining element of whether a stroke is technically modern or not. In fact the elbow should be relatively close to the body, whether you straighten the arm or not.

 

[Egon]

I know a player in the Bundesliga who used to train with the hurricane, but when Victas started sponsoring him, he switched to the Victas hybrid rubber on forehand. Probably this is correct.
I was always more interested in the question why the manufacturers of the ESN and the Butterfly have not made analogues to the hurricane during all this time? How much time passed before the appearance of sticky hybrids, why such inertia? I understand that there is a streamlined production process and it is difficult and expensive to make changes to it, but about 20 years have passed ... For myself, I found such an answer - profit.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I know a player in the Bundesliga who used to train with the hurricane, but when Victas started sponsoring him, he switched to the Victas hybrid rubber on forehand. Probably this is correct.
I was always more interested in the question why the manufacturers of the ESN and the Butterfly have not made analogues to the hurricane during all this time? How much time passed before the appearance of sticky hybrids, why such inertia? I understand that there is a streamlined production process and it is difficult and expensive to make changes to it, but about 20 years have passed ... For myself, I found such an answer - profit.

each player will need to negotiate the terms.
it is not a secret that many brands do allow players to use another brand's rubber (most of the time, it will be H3).
It is basically public knowledge nowadays.

Of course if the player has some ranking, the pressure is more on the brand than on the player.

The ESN and Butterfly has been attempting for Hurricane clones for a long time. Way before the 40+ ball.
DHS has also improves its quality over this time.
So it isn't easy and since ESN is not a table tennis brand, they are the ones making money, not the brands who still need to carry marketing and operational expenses.

To answer earlier questions, if you are groom with euro/jap rubbers for most of your youth, it is difficult to just change to a Hurricane in your 20s.
Dima tried H3 for a year and he failed. He is not your small/weak player too, so strength was not an issue.

H3 is not all the answer, since many players are not using tacky rubbers at all.
However, as I said, Chinese influence has increased the past decade and with DHS supply chain improving too, H3 is more popular now than ever before.

 

[NextLevel]

I know a player in the Bundesliga who used to train with the hurricane, but when Victas started sponsoring him, he switched to the Victas hybrid rubber on forehand. Probably this is correct.
I was always more interested in the question why the manufacturers of the ESN and the Butterfly have not made analogues to the hurricane during all this time? How much time passed before the appearance of sticky hybrids, why such inertia? I understand that there is a streamlined production process and it is difficult and expensive to make changes to it, but about 20 years have passed ... For myself, I found such an answer - profit.

I don't think so. There were Hybrids such as Palio Thor and people didn't really use them. My first tacky tubber was a tacky tensor from Juic called 999 Turbo - it was likely made by the same place that makes Hurricane Turbo but it had the Globe 999 top sheet. Remember that speed glue was the equalizer back before 2008 and rubber stickiness wasn't a big deal. You glued up and used whatever you liked. Speed glue handled most of the hard ball hitting. Spin Art and Tackfire were always around as well and were never that bad. You just needed to really use and adapt to them and while they were not Hurricane, they had some of Hurricanes short game advantages. D09c also shows that Butterfly worked on the problem. It just wasn't an easy one to get in the sweet spot.

I think the plastic ball and the desire to level the playing field with the Chinese has just lead to more open adoption of harder sponge. And I think this has helped make the transition to tacky rubbers easier as before, it used to be two steps - sponge hardness and tackiness. Now since many people are already using hard sponge, the transition is just one - tackiness. But that is my opinion. Yours could be better than mine.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

My coach told me this too when I showed up with Chinese rubber. We're just going through the fundamentals at the moment so everything is fine except when it comes to the FH drive where he keeps telling me to do a more Euro style stroke (keep my elbow close, don't hit through the ball so much).

I don't have the heart to tell him that I eventually will find a coach that understands Chinese rubber to refine my FH technique. And I will sooner be ditching my coach before I ditch hard tacky rubber. Using bouncy rubber is just not enjoyable for me. Even Jupiter 3 was so bouncy for me that I pulled it off my blade after coming home from my first test with it.

Ultimately:
1. Tacky Chinese or Bouncy ESN or Grippy Japanese rubber is dependent on user preference as stated by Turbozed.
2. Tacky Chinese or Bouncy ESN or Grippy Japanese rubber is dependent on availability of coach that is proficient in teaching it or not as in my case.
3. For example in my area, there is no coach proficient is teaching chinese tacky rubber style. All my National Players uses ESN rubber. So it is also a country specific trend.
4. For me, I love the trampoline effect of ESN rubber more than the grippy effect of Japanese rubber. Why I love trampoline effect? I could say 1,001 words about it however to avoid boring one to death, it is suffice to say it all boils down to personal preference.
5. ESN trampoline effect to me is like a game cheat code where even if I am not in the most favourable position, I can cheat my ball over the net at least to keep it in play for a second chance.

 

[turbozed]

This is a bit weird to me. The ball quality is the ball quality. If the coach focuses on the ball quality, the technique isn't as big a deal. But that said, be wary of the possibility that you may be overusing the upper arm. Keeping you elbow close to your body is not the defining element of whether a stroke is technically modern or not. In fact the elbow should be relatively close to the body, whether you straighten the arm or not.

My coach is actually now more okay with my Chinese rubber preference, maybe because I've been getting good ball quality out of it. He even asked me if I could buy him a sheet of Loki Rxton V.

I can get a good amount of spin using a more Euro style 'chicken wing' stroke, but for FH drives where I want both spin and speed, I have to really hit through the ball more with an open bat angle and that's what he corrects me on (telling me to close the racket and hug the arm). He has other beginners using carbon blades and Tenergy rubber so I'm sure that cue is helpful for them. If I did the same with their setup, I'd probably send the ball into orbit.

I'll go back through my training footage and see if the times he corrects me whether I'm using my upper arm or if it's something else going on. Thank you for the input!

 

[turbozed]

Ultimately:
1. Tacky Chinese or Bouncy ESN or Grippy Japanese rubber is dependent on user preference as stated by Turbozed.
2. Tacky Chinese or Bouncy ESN or Grippy Japanese rubber is dependent on availability of coach that is proficient in teaching it or not as in my case.
3. For example in my area, there is no coach proficient is teaching chinese tacky rubber style. All my National Players uses ESN rubber. So it is also a country specific trend.
4. For me, I love the trampoline effect of ESN rubber more than the grippy effect of Japanese rubber. Why I love trampoline effect? I could say 1,001 words about it however to avoid boring one to death, it is suffice to say it all boils down to personal preference.
5. ESN trampoline effect to me is like a game cheat code where even if I am not in the most favourable position, I can cheat my ball over the net at least to keep it in play for a second chance.

Yeah, Chinese sticky rubber versus tension rubber is one of those situations that can be described both literally and figuratively as "different strokes for different folks"

 

[Robin0910]

I believe quite a lot of Korean players with very strong FHs use DHS hurricanes, off the top of my head I count Jang Woo Jin, Lim Jonghoon and An Jaehyun.

Lim Jonghoon doesn’t

 

[JJ Ng]

My coach is actually now more okay with my Chinese rubber preference, maybe because I've been getting good ball quality out of it. He even asked me if I could buy him a sheet of Loki Rxton V.

I can get a good amount of spin using a more Euro style 'chicken wing' stroke, but for FH drives where I want both spin and speed, I have to really hit through the ball more with an open bat angle and that's what he corrects me on (telling me to close the racket and hug the arm). He has other beginners using carbon blades and Tenergy rubber so I'm sure that cue is helpful for them. If I did the same with their setup, I'd probably send the ball into orbit.

I'll go back through my training footage and see if the times he corrects me whether I'm using my upper arm or if it's something else going on. Thank you for the input!

I really really do not like beginners using carbon blades and Tenergy rubber. I really really think it is coach's profit over the beginner's progress. At some point, some stuff are just...well...unethical. I don't care which way you slice it. There is no getting out of that argument.

On a side note, I am playing hurricane more with an Euro style now. There are a couple reasons for that. One, I am getting older and I really cannot abuse my body like when I was younger. Two, my coaches are telling me to adopt more a Euro style because I can recover for the next stroke faster. None of the coaches I work with have asked me to ditch hurricane.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I really really do not like beginners using carbon blades and Tenergy rubber. I really really think it is coach's profit over the beginner's progress. At some point, some stuff are just...well...unethical. I don't care which way you slice it. There is no getting out of that argument.

On a side note, I am playing hurricane more with an Euro style now. There are a couple reasons for that. One, I am getting older and I really cannot abuse my body like when I was younger. Two, my coaches are telling me to adopt more a Euro style because I can recover for the next stroke faster. None of the coaches I work with have asked me to ditch hurricane.

Tenergy I agree with, not sure about carbon blades. Some of them are not faster than 7 plies.

 

[Emin]

Another point about the DHS rubbers I think is the fact that they can keep the ball short and deny 3rd Ball Attacks.
Even though many European players adapted to Hybrids on FH, they are not able to keep the receive as close to the net as the Chinese.
With ESN rubbers especially, pushing a half long underspin serve that is not so low always make the ball pop up.
The Chinese rubbers dont make the ball pop up and thus dont give an easy open up shot for the opponent.
Especially in my area, most people are using some andro rasanter, xiom vega pro type rubbers.
I can do the Ma Long type serve, underspin pendulum/ half long underspin and if they dont attack ( which they often dont) it is a free attack opportunity.

 

[Migzkulit]

Another point about the DHS rubbers I think is the fact that they can keep the ball short and deny 3rd Ball Attacks.
Even though many European players adapted to Hybrids on FH, they are not able to keep the receive as close to the net as the Chinese.
With ESN rubbers especially, pushing a half long underspin serve that is not so low always make the ball pop up.
The Chinese rubbers dont make the ball pop up and thus dont give an easy open up shot for the opponent.
Especially in my area, most people are using some andro rasanter, xiom vega pro type rubbers.
I can do the Ma Long type serve, underspin pendulum/ half long underspin and if they dont attack ( which they often dont) it is a free attack opportunity.

That fact alone is tempting me to get hurricane 3 on my backhand as well. I've realised as I've gotten better that being able to topspin both sides doesn't matter if you can't even hit the ball. I get a lot of points from service and my forehand play. My backhand which is tenergy like in it's bounce is not viable unless you're an all-out attacker.

I get hella people on that service as well, half-long or quite short underspin.
(Will be pain to have to boost both sides of a racket)

 

[kingkimchi]

It isn't sponsorship. Many non DHS sponsored players do use DHS rubbers.
DHS is more common in Asia, since Chinese training partners has invaded most of Japan (there is a lot of H3 in Japan) decades ago already.
Koreans and Taiwanese have followed suit since the 40+ ball (post 2016)

The new ball (40+) actually gave DHS a big boost.
Many brands was slow to follow with "hard" sponge rubbers and DHS capitalized on this opportunity.
With 40+ carbon blades and harder sponge rubbers took over. Many went to H3 on FH, mostly with Chinese training partner/coaches influence.

yes, I agree on your point. I see a lot of koreans out there using h3, hl5.. such as shin yubin, jang woojin+youth players. I believe KCCC Jeff released a video on setup variety in the taiwanese championships, h3 turned out to be the most used rubber. Will attach link to video shortly

 

[kingkimchi]

yes, I agree on your point. I see a lot of koreans out there using h3, hl5.. such as shin yubin, jang woojin+youth players. I believe KCCC Jeff released a video on setup variety in the taiwanese championships, h3 turned out to be the most used rubber. Will attach link to video shortly

here it is

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

here it is

I only really recognize two people that I can name.
The donic blue shirt girl with 189 and Joola shirt guy.
As I thought, this is an old video, as both players are over age for U18 today.
Joola guy changed to Super Lin, and uses a special edition given by Lin, since he is Lin's practice partner. And uses H3 National blue with T05 Hard still

I have seen a few other players training in person, but I can't name them

 

[job59]

I believe quite a lot of Korean players with very strong FHs use DHS hurricanes, off the top of my head I count Jang Woo Jin, Lim Jonghoon and An Jaehyun.

You are completely right. Korean top players without H3 are the minority meanwhile. The Japanese players have been named too. Even Kao from Taiwan uses H3! I got astonished, cause my idea was, on "political correctness" it was banned in Taiwan.

247tabletennis has a long list of top player equipment.

247tabletennis - Male Players' Equipment List

What are top professional players using now...?

sites.google.com

247tabletennis - Female Players' Equipment List

What are top professional players using now...?

sites.google.com

 

[igorponger]

Mima Ito gives a clear answer by bouncing the ball against h3, no bounce at all.