Why is this forum so obsessed with the Japanese women's team?

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Come on now.... If this was the case then this forum would be full of Szocs', Takahashi's, Christina Källberg's, Kaufmann's (and so on) photos and threads. Do you at least think that some people play a defensive game and that the best defenders at this time in a national level are the two Japanese girls? And that maybe some of us playing with their setups just because we love their game?


fixed!!! No-Anton here, he left the building!
Two things can be true at once - the Japanese women are standout performers and generally one of the main threats to Chinese dominance, and maybe they have interesting styles to some, but in a forum that is probably full of East Asian men or men with an interest in East Asian culture at the least its not hard to use a little common sense here. I don't see 50 page threads spanning years and nearly half the discussion of the forum dedicated to other threats to Chinese dominance such as Hugo or LYJ or choppers who people totally love because of their playing style and nothing else.

💕 I am SO IN LOVE with Honoka! 💕


😍 Go Honoka 😍​

This was just because you like her as a chopper, right? :ROFLMAO:
 
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Two things can be true at once - the Japanese women are standout performers and generally one of the main threats to Chinese dominance, and maybe they have interesting styles to some, but in a forum that is probably full of East Asian men or men with an interest in East Asian culture at the least its not hard to use a little common sense here. I don't see 50 page threads spanning years and nearly half the discussion of the forum dedicated to other threats to Chinese dominance such as Hugo or LYJ or choppers who people totally love because of their playing style and nothing else.



This was just because you like her as a chopper, right? :ROFLMAO:
And when they talk about Bruna, it's 99% related to Hugo because they are a couple. It's another aspect of female sexual objectification: it has to be related to a phantasm, and it's better if it's with a man. Who remembers here all the BS some tennis womens took in their face because they made their coming out as a gay ? Amélie Mauresmo for example, then all those idiots started to say "I knew it, she's 100% a trans have you seen her muscles ?".
Wanna talk about Breanna Stewart ? Megan Rapinoe ? naaah, they're not sexy because they're ... lesbians.

This forum is really full of denial.
 
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in tennis , we had Maria Sharapova but also Gabriella Sabatini , or Anna Kournikova… who had many fans but didn’t win many titles…

(Didn’t follow much recent women tennis in recent years)

Sharapova was WR#1 and 5X grand slam winner among her many tournament wins
 
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Two things can be true at once - the Japanese women are standout performers and generally one of the main threats to Chinese dominance, and maybe they have interesting styles to some, but in a forum that is probably full of East Asian men or men with an interest in East Asian culture at the least its not hard to use a little common sense here. I don't see 50 page threads spanning years and nearly half the discussion of the forum dedicated to other threats to Chinese dominance such as Hugo or LYJ or choppers who people totally love because of their playing style and nothing else.



This was just because you like her as a chopper, right? :ROFLMAO:
Yeah, but it's not like there are 100s of threads on Bernadette Szocs or Christina Kallberg etc. The threads came out of the success of the players first and foremost and then evolving narratives around their intra-national competition. There is absolutely nothing wrong with men liking women, and I am not sure what the point is in calling it "obsession" when it is anything but. In fact, I post a lot in those threads, and I don't find any of the Japanese women particularly attractive with maybe one exception and I don't rush to watch any of their matches because I find them attractive - it's mostly the quality of table tennis that excites me and since my level is not that high as a man, I find aspects of the female game equally astounding and relatable (I fully understand the position of strong male players who find female TT unexciting). The narratives around how these players got to where they are is simply more accessible for the reasons I gave. And as fans of TT, their narratives are far better developed and sold than those of players in other parts of the world. One should be looking at those narratives and why TT is popular in Japan and see whether it can be replicated elsewhere.
 
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And when they talk about Bruna, it's 99% related to Hugo because they are a couple. It's another aspect of female sexual objectification: it has to be related to a phantasm, and it's better if it's with a man. Who remembers here all the BS some tennis womens took in their face because they made their coming out as a gay ? Amélie Mauresmo for example, then all those idiots started to say "I knew it, she's 100% a trans have you seen her muscles ?".
Wanna talk about Breanna Stewart ? Megan Rapinoe ? naaah, they're not sexy because they're ... lesbians.

This forum is really full of denial.
This is completely untrue and it is less about denial and more about "what's the benefit of being explicit about something that doesn't belong on public forum"?

Unfortunately, the lack of moderators on this site has allowed this angle to go on for too long. A moderator should have nipped this in the bud a long time ago. Not everyone's personal opinion or fetish belongs on a webboard. And as long as posters are innocently conveying their fandom, there is absolutely no need for crass accusations or insinuations to take hold.
 
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Sharapova was WR#1 and 5X grand slam winner among her many tournament wins
I know, Maria won all grand slams and I do like her a lot but Gabriella one Roland Garros and Kournikova no grand slam…
Still that girl used to be very popular in her day
 
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And when they talk about Bruna, it's 99% related to Hugo because they are a couple. It's another aspect of female sexual objectification: it has to be related to a phantasm, and it's better if it's with a man. Who remembers here all the BS some tennis womens took in their face because they made their coming out as a gay ? Amélie Mauresmo for example, then all those idiots started to say "I knew it, she's 100% a trans have you seen her muscles ?".
Wanna talk about Breanna Stewart ? Megan Rapinoe ? naaah, they're not sexy because they're ... lesbians.

This forum is really full of denial.
You might have a bit of a bubble problem there.

- I didn't know Bruna and Hugo were a couple until somewhere last week, I didn't know it at the time of the recent TTD video and I have been watching that being very impressed with her skill.
- I know basically one name from US women's footy and that's Megan Rapinoe, and I know she's a very good player. I don't skip news articles about her just because she likes women, in fact I think someone standing up for their community like she does is doing something very respectable.

I mean, come on. Everybody takes a little extra effort to look good once they're in the spotlights. Not just the women. You hardly ever see a pro player with a scruffy beard, a messy hairdo, old shoes. Even the stained, worn-out blades are getting scarce. This isn't a woman-thing anymore, everyone needs to look perfect. The life of a pro TT player revolves around getting good (sponsor) exposure. It has been that way since (at least) the 90s, but in the age of hypermedia it's exponentially more important. Any bad moment will get caught and live on forever.
 
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Absolutely njk 😂 sorry for SYS fans…

My current crush is Miyu Nagasaki.

Miwa is a future star in the making.

Miyu-Nagasaki.jpg.webp
Miwa is future star? She probably has already been the brightest current Japanese star.
 
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I agree with NL about his objection that this forum is obsessed with Japanese women team. Rather, people showed genuine interest to that team for lots of reasons and majority of them are legitimate.
For 10, 20 years, JWT has provided constant challenge to the only giant in CWT. They failed almost every time generation after generation but they never gave up, worked hard and sent the next generation. For that resiliency they deserve tons of respect and TT community interest. I'd say without Japanese women, women's table tennis would be much less interesting no matter how attractive some Japanese girls are.

With that said, I do find many Japanese girls are cute and I don't think which is wrong. Notice I used the word 'cute' in stead of more controversial 'hot' .

Particularly, I find one trait about Japanese girls very interesting, nice and lovely is they fight with vicious intensity during a match but very respectful to their opponents, refs, audience and their own teammates before and after the match. It's a nice gesture when you see a Japanese girl nods to the audience, refs and the opponent a few times to signal she's ready to start the match, also nods to the opponent whether win of lose before the hand shake.
 
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Yeah, but it's not like there are 100s of threads on Bernadette Szocs or Christina Kallberg etc. The threads came out of the success of the players first and foremost and then evolving narratives around their intra-national competition. There is absolutely nothing wrong with men liking women, and I am not sure what the point is in calling it "obsession" when it is anything but. In fact, I post a lot in those threads, and I don't find any of the Japanese women particularly attractive with maybe one exception and I don't rush to watch any of their matches because I find them attractive - it's mostly the quality of table tennis that excites me and since my level is not that high as a man, I find aspects of the female game equally astounding and relatable (I fully understand the position of strong male players who find female TT unexciting). The narratives around how these players got to where they are is simply more accessible for the reasons I gave. And as fans of TT, their narratives are far better developed and sold than those of players in other parts of the world. One should be looking at those narratives and why TT is popular in Japan and see whether it can be replicated elsewhere.
Christina hasn't done much spectacular in her career and neither of them are Asian. Sure, their success definitely plays a role and probably is the primarily role in their forum popularity but all I'm saying is there are pretty clearly other factors at play. Didn't say there's anything wrong with it nor call out anyone in particular (though there are a few vocal users who make their interests abundantly clear).

Just for fun though, Diaz and Cheng I-Ching have been strong underdog contenders for a long time and their stories/narratives are very accessible, arguably more than the Japanese women...why so little discussion about them?
 
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i love the japanese woman team.

i give zero fck about drama or whatever? like i m not even sure what some people here are talking about and i dont care either.

but the reason being is rather simple. Hashimoto, Ito & Hina..and so on

they are all so fun to watch, have so distinct differences in playstyles. if its Hashimoto who prob. has the most visual aesthetic playstyle ever, her movements are so flowy, it makes her look like she s dancing (fun experiment: but actually watch a match but mute the sound and have music on in the background... like... shes basically on beat) its so fun...

then you have ito onepunchman-girl, the small compact cute little rocket...i dont know... i just love every fem-jap players playstyle a lot in different ways. and i feel that less with pretty much any other team
 
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Christina hasn't done much spectacular in her career and neither of them are Asian. Sure, their success definitely plays a role and probably is the primarily role in their forum popularity but all I'm saying is there are pretty clearly other factors at play. Didn't say there's anything wrong with it nor call out anyone in particular (though there are a few vocal users who make their interests abundantly clear).

Just for fun though, Diaz and Cheng I-Ching have been strong underdog contenders for a long time and their stories/narratives are very accessible, arguably more than the Japanese women...why so little discussion about them?
As someone who watched this grow, I disagree with "pretty clearly". So what do you mean by accessible narratives when you talk about the other players? And are you fully accounting for the network effects?

And I am not sure which vocal users have made their interests abundantly clear. Again, there is nothing wrong with men liking women or anyone liking anyone. In fact, the people who post the closest thing to sexual innuendos and lewd pics *are not* the people who post predominantly on those threads and I would issue them warnings if I was allowed to moderate. But I would like to make it clear that this is about much more than accessible narratives and individual success. It is a culture created out of a lot of information enabling building a network of narratives.

What league teams does Diaz play for? Cheng-I-ching?

How many national championships does Diaz play that have been streamed to youtube? Cheng-I-ching?

How many Olympics in recent years have been held in Puerto Rico? Chinese Taipei/Taiwan?

How many players from Diaz's or Cheng's countries play in WJTTC events etc.?

How many TT magazines or news articles report prominently on Diaz and Cheng-I-ching? You think if you were to produce what Zeio and now Catennacio do in terms of finding material, you would be able to do what happens with tt-kingdom magazine etc.?

Some of what happened was simply network effects - Ito is successful and develops her fan base, Hayata is upcoming and expected to be a star, Hirano did well in 2016 and 2017 and developed her fan base, the Olympics battle and Hayata missing out despite improving enough was another story, Ito trying to challenge the CNT, Hayata trying to do the same, Harimoto on the men's side with his sister , the choppers Hashimoto and Sato never getting on the team despite decent results... I mean I know names like Haruna Ojio, Kyoka Idesawa, Udesawa, Minamo Ando etc. and it is all largely because of stories shared, the T-LEague being streamed, the national championships being streamed etc.

What has happened on this forum, largely by accident but with the help of TT-fans, because it has been largely about the TT, despite talk to the contrary, has been a confluence of things that just led to a lot of talk about the JNT women. The sexual dimension of it is *much smaller* than I think people who sit outside of it would like to believe, and even if it were larger, it has largely been kept undiscussed except by a few people who think it is a good thing to discuss it in a public forum trying to appeal to users of all ages and sexes (I do not think it is a good thing for the record).

The problem with these things is that once the narrative takes hold, it will allow people to start defining the discussions as being largely about men wanting to look at women and that will do a disservice to what has gone on for a long time and built up over years. I don't think men wanting to look at women is a bad thing, but I also think that this aspect of what is happening is far from the defining element. And while I know it doesn't matter to people who want to believe what they want to believe, there is nothing wrong with someone loving to watch a woman who plays a style of table tennis he finds beautiful (and yes, I am talking about @tzifos ).
 
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As someone who watched this grow, I disagree with "pretty clearly". So what do you mean by accessible narratives when you talk about the other players? And are you fully accounting for the network effects?

And I am not sure which vocal users have made their interests abundantly clear. Again, there is nothing wrong with men liking women or anyone liking anyone. In fact, the people who post the closest thing to sexual innuendos and lewd pics *are not* the people who post predominantly on those threads and I would issue them warnings if I was allowed to moderate. But I would like to make it clear that this is about much more than accessible narratives and individual success. It is a culture created out of a lot of information enabling building a network of narratives.

What league teams does Diaz play for? Cheng-I-ching?

How many national championships does Diaz play that have been streamed to youtube? Cheng-I-ching?

How many Olympics in recent years have been held in Puerto Rico? Chinese Taipei/Taiwan?

How many players from Diaz's or Cheng's countries play in WJTTC events etc.?

How many TT magazines or news articles report prominently on Diaz and Cheng-I-ching? You think if you were to produce what Zeio and now Catennacio do in terms of finding material, you would be able to do what happens with tt-kingdom magazine etc.?

Some of what happened was simply network effects - Ito is successful and develops her fan base, Hayata is upcoming and expected to be a star, Hirano did well in 2016 and 2017 and developed her fan base, the Olympics battle and Hayata missing out despite improving enough was another story, Ito trying to challenge the CNT, Hayata trying to do the same, Harimoto on the men's side with his sister , the choppers Hashimoto and Sato never getting on the team despite decent results... I mean I know names like Haruna Ojio, Kyoka Idesawa, Udesawa, Minamo Ando etc. and it is all largely because of stories shared, the T-LEague being streamed, the national championships being streamed etc.

What has happened on this forum, largely by accident but with the help of TT-fans, because it has been largely about the TT, despite talk to the contrary, has been a confluence of things that just led to a lot of talk about the JNT women. The sexual dimension of it is *much smaller* than I think people who sit outside of it would like to believe, and even if it were larger, it has largely been kept undiscussed except by a few people who think it is a good thing to discuss it in a public forum trying to appeal to users of all ages and sexes (I do not think it is a good thing for the record).

The problem with these things is that once the narrative takes hold, it will allow people to start defining the discussions as being largely about men wanting to look at women and that will do a disservice to what has gone on for a long time and built up over years. I don't think men wanting to look at women is a bad thing, but I also think that this aspect of what is happening is far from the defining element. And while I know it doesn't matter to people who want to believe what they want to believe, there is nothing wrong with someone loving to watch a woman who plays a style of table tennis he finds beautiful (and yes, I am talking about @tzifos ).
Diaz and CIC have been promoted heavily in various forms of media. CIC especially in the wake of the Tokyo Olympic XD medal. They are also prominently featured on social media - Bobrow has done entire series with CIC, WTT/ITTF have done their share, among other social media influencers. CIC and I believe Diaz have also had played in the T League in several seasons. Point being, they are not exactly mysteries to the table tennis fans that are presumably on this forum and there is plenty of discussion that could be had.

Is it as much media exposure as the Japanese players? Maybe not, but it is definitely out there and exists for TT fans if they wanted to discuss it further. For whatever reason, it hasn't happened (at least from what I see).

I hear your point and wouldn't say its the defining element either though we might disagree on how much of a contributing factor it is I think we can also agree it is a factor. Bobrow realized this and that's why his videos with people like Anastasia Rybka and Daniely Rios and amateur players of a certain "type" outperform his videos with actual table tennis pros.

I also remember hearing but can't verify that one of the most insanely popular threads of all time on another TT forum was about videos of some amateur female player from some European country I don't remember. Likely not due to Olympics or national championship participation.
 
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Almost every sport manipulates women. Just look at the dress codes, they know if women dressed modestly, no one would watch. The truth is, most of the audience for women's sports are men, not women. It's pure hypocrisy.
 
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Diaz and CIC have been promoted heavily in various forms of media. CIC especially in the wake of the Tokyo Olympic XD medal. They are also prominently featured on social media - Bobrow has done entire series with CIC, WTT/ITTF have done their share, among other social media influencers. CIC and I believe Diaz have also had played in the T League in several seasons. Point being, they are not exactly mysteries to the table tennis fans that are presumably on this forum and there is plenty of discussion that could be had.

Is it as much media exposure as the Japanese players? Maybe not, but it is definitely out there and exists for TT fans if they wanted to discuss it further. For whatever reason, it hasn't happened (at least from what I see).

I hear your point and wouldn't say its the defining element either though we might disagree on how much of a contributing factor it is I think we can also agree it is a factor. Bobrow realized this and that's why his videos with people like Anastasia Rybka and Daniely Rios and amateur players of a certain "type" outperform his videos with actual table tennis pros.

I also remember hearing but can't verify that one of the most insanely popular threads of all time on another TT forum was about videos of some amateur female player from some European country I don't remember. Likely not due to Olympics or national championship participation.
The argument has limits - someone created a league where women played in bikinis - not sure the league is still on youtube but it didn't get a lot of views. But I suspect someone got it banned after a while. Or it is still there but dead.

What you call promotion is not even close to what I described. To be fair, it is partly because I am a member of this forum, but my point is that we get a *lot* of streamed TT now from official sources featuring the Japanese women and the TT League also helped with this. We also get updated on news partly because of the efforts of zeio, pongfugrasshopper and Catenaccio amongst others. Japan is fairly transparent about national team criteria. I have a friend who compulsively is uninterested in men's TT and I know he doesn't watch the women because of sexual attraction - he just finds their overall game more attractive and relatable. He is the kind of guy who would ask what chance Sato and Hashimoto have of making the Olympics or when Choi Hyojoo or Mima Ito are playing. He isn't Asian and doesn't date Asians. But he can find out when his favorite players are playing. He likes to play with short pips on backhand.

Sexual attraction is always a potential factor in dealings between men and women. Now, a video on youtube designed to attract views is very different from a fandom committed to following the failures and successes of players over years. Don't want to delve into that too seriously, but you get the drift. So I get the Bobrow comparison but I think it has limitations compared to what we are discussing here.

That said, lots of men are fans of Hollywood stars, pop singers etc. Nothing wrong with that and that dimension is accepted. But it would be a disservice to a guy who actually knows the lyrics of the songs and likes the music to say that the core of his fandom for someone like Adele is because he finds her attractive. That's how I feel when I hear about this being the focus. Is Adele attractive, for some/many, sure. Might that influence how someone finds or follows her music, yes. But if I am singing the lyrics of Skyfall, is it because I find her attractive and want to watch her videos?

When it is described as an "obsession" with Adele, that is the unfortunate result.
 
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Almost every sport manipulates women. Just look at the dress codes, they know if women dressed modestly, no one would watch. The truth is, most of the audience for women's sports are men, not women. It's pure hypocrisy.
I don't know about "manipulation" but if a sport wants to make money, it finds a way to exploit all the tools at its disposal to create a positive experience for fans and most but not all sports fans are primarily men. Calling it "manipulation" stacks the deck in the argument in a competitive activity. Most youtube viewers are also men for example, so it feeds other arguments as to what gets views on Youtube. But seriously, do you think that women in TT are dressing the way they do because of "manipulation"? Seriously?
 
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