Why isn't table tennis equipment produced in the USA?

[brokenball]

Why are you even on a table tennis forum?

Good question.

Some times you can't understand things out side of your box, as your mind is way too narrow.

If you mean I don't believe all the marketing hype and BS I see on this forum you are right. I am an expert at motion control. I/we sell around the world. Any You?

For example, look at who pays for table tennis in schools in Asia, you want to learn from the best or pretend it isn't possible?

So who pays for TT in Asia? TT doesn't buy me food or beer. It does let me work off the food and beer.

And if PP market size is the same as TT11, guess what can happen? TT11 is successful because they have a huge European market to tap into. Put TT11 in USA, guess what will happen then?

I don't understand what is wrong with you. This has NOTHING to do with why TT products aren't made in the US.

Before TT11 won the world, they were pretty good in Europe already. Logistic, market size, market maturity all helped TT11, this is beyond TT11's own strengths.

Yes, so? How does this apply to the OP's question?

Market size makes a huge different, that is why every company was eager to go into China when the border opened for westerners years ago and that is why there are so many millionaires in China inside such a short time. You take those business minds and put them in a small market.... many won't be as successful.

The market is the world. Again, I buy a lot from TT11 even though the Paddle Palace is nearby. SO?
What has this to do with the OP's question? It seems you only want to argue.

You take successful American businesses and put them in a small 1 million population country, many won't be successful too. This isn't too hard to understand. Market size (opportunity) does help a lot.

That is a pretty easy statement to make because most companies don't sell globally. However, there are plenty of small companies that do well because they have adapted to the market they are in.
At this point it would make much difference to us because we sell globally. No one walks in the front door to buy a motion controller.

Some times you can't understand things out side of your box

No! I/we sell around the world. Even to ZA ( South Africa ) although not much.
I think it is obvious that it is you that is trapped within your little box.
You have no clue how the real world operates.
I have only a clue. What I know makes me shudder/worry a lot.

You all should be very worried.










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[DukeGaGa]

As always, whenever brokenball appears the thread gets broken. There’s no point talking to him, since he is just broken. He ignores things he doesn’t understand, and forces his broken idea to everyone else. Why? Because he is broken.

Now, would someone please, give me a beat.

 

[_JOOLA_]

Good question.

If you mean I don't believe all the marketing hype and BS I see on this forum you are right. I am an expert at motion control. I/we sell around the world. Any You?


So who pays for TT in Asia? TT doesn't buy me food or beer. It does let me work off the food and beer.

I don't understand what is wrong with you. This has NOTHING to do with why TT products aren't made in the US.


Yes, so? How does this apply to the OP's question?


The market is the world. Again, I buy a lot from TT11 even though the Paddle Palace is nearby. SO?
What has this to do with the OP's question? It seems you only want to argue.

That is a pretty easy statement to make because most companies don't sell globally. However, there are plenty of small companies that do well because they have adapted to the market they are in.
At this point it would make much difference to us because we sell globally. No one walks in the front door to buy a motion controller.

No! I/we sell around the world. Even to ZA ( South Africa ) although not much.
I think it is obvious that it is you that is trapped within your little box.
You have no clue how the real world operates.
I have only a clue. What I know makes me shudder/worry a lot.

You all should be very worried.










.

Yes, you produce interesting things. It is possible that flight simulators are built on your controllers, on which our pilots are now trained, in order to later protect our country and the values of democracy.

 

[NDH]

But popularity has to do with it. Like I said when considering whether a variable affects the outcome, you need to keep all other variables the same and equal. So let’s say if the cost of production is the same, quality of the product is the same, does popularity affect the decision where to produce the products? The answer is obviously yes. Since more popularity means more sales, more sales means more deliveries, and delivery cost is based on distance and speed, closer to destination means playing less.

For the record…. This thread is significantly more spicy than it needed to be! 😂

On your point above, I’d absolutely agree with you.

If Table Tennis didn’t exist, and was created tomorrow, with a huge percentage of the interest coming from America….. it would certainly encourage American companies to create brands.

However….. do you think they’d manufacture said brands in America?

I get @Tony's Table Tennis point about Germany and Japan being high quality rather than low cost - Valid point.

At this risk of causing a riot…. Do we think America can compete with either on the quality front? 😬

Going back to your post, your line of thinking “all things being equal” would be fine - But they aren’t equal.

There is no way of getting around the fact that in the world we live in, producing things in America is typically more expensive, and that’s one of the reasons so many American companies manufacture abroad.

I’m not sure using an example that is simply never going to happen (the cost of things being equal) is supporting your argument in any way, and giving the OP any clarification on the original question.

Is there a real world example (of any product that you know of), where the quality and cost are equal when produced in America vs abroad?

In the UK, we have the same price premium of something being “made in the UK”, and in pretty much all cases, it’s one of the big selling points to justify the higher cost.

 

[_JOOLA_]

It seems to me that I understood the reason for my original question and for this a big thank you to all of you! And this is actually not one reason, but a combination of them, which everyone spoke about here. The further dispute was already due to a comparison of the importance of each of the factors - the high cost of production or the lack of sufficient demand within the country or the cheapness / high cost / marginality of the product. In such disputes, further development is possible, well, unless it comes to a fight

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

In the UK, we have the same price premium of something being “made in the UK”, and in pretty much all cases, it’s one of the big selling points to justify the higher cost.

I watch quite a bit of Dragon's Den/Shark Tank, and it does seem like investors are happy when those entrepreneurs manufacturer things in the UK/USA. A lot of them do it due to quality, as seems like mass production in Asia has its cost advantages, but when quality is part of the product, then its a different story.

There are lots of OEM rubber makers in China. I get approached very often, so I do have a list of contacts. But not even Chinese table tennis fans will use those products. They are really more for hobby range/very cheap and pretty much a toy compared to what we are used to.

I think the technical aspect on a rubber makes it very difficult and complicated compared to a shirt or shoe, of which 90% of them gets made in Asia (In terms of sport shoes, credit goes to a Taiwanese actually)

Daiki (Japan) almost killed Stiga's rubber business with a terrible Calibra Tour / Airoc series. If it wasn't for Mantra and later the ESN DNA series, Stiga could be in really big trouble.
Daiki is a very big rubber maker and for them to have quality problems... just imagine your smaller guys.

It feels like blade craftsmanship is easier to get right than oppose to rubbers.
I do hope some country other than Japan and Germany does come out to make rubbers. Rubbers is too monopoly. Pricing on rubbers has been on the increase. Blades pricing is more stable, since you have a lot more makers and less monopoly.

 

[brokenball]

I think the technical aspect on a rubber makes it very difficult and complicated compared to a shirt or shoe, of which 90% of them gets made in Asia (In terms of sport shoes, credit goes to a Taiwanese actually)

Yes, a huge problem is consistency and it can vary from batch to batch. Shirts and shoes aren't things that a sensitive hand touches or controls.

Daiki (Japan) almost killed Stiga's rubber business with a terrible Calibra Tour / Airoc series. If it wasn't for Mantra and later the ESN DNA series, Stiga could be in really big trouble.
Daiki is a very big rubber maker and for them to have quality problems... just imagine your smaller guys.

I believe it. Long ago our company made something that was mostly made of rubber but it had a small metal blade. The rubber had to flex just so. Sometime a whole batch had to be discarded because the rubber didn't flex right.

It feels like blade craftsmanship is easier to get right than oppose to rubbers.

I think both are tricky but the techniques for wood working have been around for centuries.
What impresses me about TT paddles is the quality of the wood. However, I wonder about the quality of the inner layers. Back in the 80s I automated veneer lathes in Japan. I was impressed with how thinly the would peel the sheets of wood off the rotating block. However, they had what they called "face" material which had to be perfect and "core" material that was inside and not seen. Face material was cut thin, only 0.55 mm thick. This way they could get the most face material out of a volume of wood. The core material was peeled to be 1.55 mm thick and provided the strength or rigidity.

I do hope some country other than Japan and Germany does come out to make rubbers. Rubbers is too monopoly. Pricing on rubbers has been on the increase. Blades pricing is more stable, since you have a lot more makers and less monopoly.

The rubber molding machines are not cheap. Making top sheets is easy once the die/mold is made. It is the up front cost of the machine and molds that are expensive. A lot of rubbers need to be sold to cover the up front cost. The material for the top sheet costs pennies. The rubber injection molding machines are made in high tech countries but they can be shipped any where. Everyone can buy the same rubber injection machines if they have money.

Again, the consistency of the rubber material is a problem.
Making the sponge foam is trickier. Ideally you want the air pockets to be big but consistent in size. It is the air the compresses well and returns almost all of the energy. The problem is that a bigger air pockets mean less material separating them. Lighter foam sponge will not last as long. It is a trade off. Eventually the sponge foam starts to get brittle and doesn't restore its shape well like cushions you sit on.

However, the rubbers and blades can be made anywhere and shipped anywhere.
I have helped rubber injection molding machine OEMs with controlling the position and pressure parts of their machines.