Why the end of China dominance would benefit to Global Table Tennis

says Pimples Schmimples
says Pimples Schmimples
Well-Known Member
Sep 2022
1,006
1,051
3,974
Basketball is my thing you know ;-), as far as I remember, the Celtics or the Lakers have never won the finals 20 years straight, nor the Bulls, nor the Spurs with Duncan. It's a shared dominance, Even the Bulls did not win 6 rings straight, Jordan wanted to try baseball in 94 and 95.

I mean... since 1996 in Atlanta, only 1 men single titles left to South Korea in OGs + 1 XD in Tokyo left to Japan + 1 men's double in... 1988 in Seoul left to south Korea. Team events all won. You know the gold medal ratio right ...

World Cup, if you put Samsonov, Dima and Timo Boll aside, since 2004 it's 15/18 for the men's, and the women's single... well better not watch the table, we can only thank Miu Hirano in 2017.

WTTC well we all know the story.

It's not even a 60 or 80% dominance. It's over the 90% mark !

The NBA have never seen that kind of unshared dominance. Nor football, I don't even think France's men's team has won so much in handball since the 2000's. They left some big titles to Denmark, Spain and Germany.

Having the Celtics and the Lakers showing the rest of the league how it's done sure I like it, but it's impossible for them to dominate THAT way. I mean, if it was the case, the NBA would not like it at all, and they've made everything possible to let other franchises being able to win, with the lottery system at the draft for example.

The only team that has dominated that much is the women's USA team, even the men's USA team have suffered in the World Cup (the last one specially in China, beaten by Germany and Lithuania), in Tokyo France beat them by 7 in pool matches, and USA wins by 6 only in the gold medal match !

What has helped globalize basketball is the wake of Europe, sure the Dream Team in 92 was the best publicity, but in the 2000's they looked at the numbers... the NBA was not making money overseas, that's why they started doing FIBA matches between Euroleague and NBA champions, when the Real Madrid has beaten the Lakers, or Berlin the Spurs, it was in fact a victory for the NBA cos' they knew europeans would now really think they could do something in the big league, and that's what happened. All that has brought more money in the NBA with more TV rights from Europe. And now they export the NBA to France with the "Paris Games" each year: 2 teams playing 2 games of the regular season in 5 days.

Every CEO in any sport organization will tel you that, doping has been a terrible thing in cycling cos' there's always unshared dominance when it happens, ASO the company that organizes the Tour de France, Paris-Roubaix, Paris-Tours, Paris-Nice and the Fourmies Grand Prix is well aware of that, Christian Prud'Homme the ASO's CEO is not happy at all with Pogacar's unshared dominance, cos' it reminds too much of the Armstrong era.
Your comparing apples with oranges.
If you're going to talk basketball you have to compare how the USA dominate globally, not how the US league (NBA) compares with the Chinese national team. You have to compare the NBA with the Chinese Super league and see what teams are winning that.

The enormous strength of the NBA makes the best of its components unbeatable internationally the same way the enormous strength of the Chinese Super league makes the best of its components unbeatable internationally.
If you're going to criticise China for being so strong and quote it as a problem then you gotta do that with your basketball too.

I could turn your argument around and say the Chinese Super league has seen a shared dominance in the past 30 years while the USA Mens basketball team have lost once since 2004 and only 6 times EVER at the Olympics.

Other sports have dominant nations too and that's just how it is. It's in the history, the heritage and the culture. Its there to be applauded and appreciated I think, otherwise everyone can crap in China for TT, USA for Basketball, NZ for Rugby etc etc etc and we can all be Philistines and not appreciate the brilliance of anything.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: haggisv
says Pimples Schmimples
says Pimples Schmimples
Well-Known Member
Sep 2022
1,006
1,051
3,974
Japan dominating Judo ? What ? call Teddy, David and Clarisse please, right now lol
I've no idea what you mean by that but:
Japan, the birthplace of judo, dominates the all-time Olympic medal table. Japan's 48 gold medals and 96 medals overall are far and away the most of any country. France (16 gold medals, 57 total medals) is the next closest country in both categories.
Yeah
Steve Redgrave and Matthew Pinsent are two rowing greats who have helped Britain to the pinnacle of the Sport. Redgrave won gold medals at five consecutive Olympic Games from 1984 to 2000.

Total of 24 gold medals in the history of Sailing at the Games. They ruled the waves in three consecutive editions of the Olympics starting from Sydney 2000.
Come on, the only thing coming closer is the women's BB team.
Whatevs dude.
I think it's talking chocolate to take some negative and misguided notion about nations dominating sports and direct it just at China and Table Tennis - it shows none of the significant appreciation that should accompany such statements.
They've set the bar and I reckon they should be thanked and appreciated for setting it so high and keeping the sport relevant.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
10,200
9,813
25,198
Read 3 reviews
I think there is merits to both sides.

China has set the standard high, just like USA in basketball.
But for the rest of the world, the world is bigger than just one country.

Today, it is only Chinese corporates sponsoring WTT basically.
Where are the European corporates that was sponsoring back then?

maybe a more evenly contesting fight for the title would see more diverse coporates sponsoring the sport again.

It is difficult to compare table tennis and basketball per se, as even with a USA domination, most of the world's basketball is healthy in terms of financial resources.

in terms of table tennis, due to Chinese dominance, there is only a handful of countries - that see themselves close enough to challenge the Chinese, thus they have financial resources. For the bulk - little to no resources, or simply put it, you are on your own.

So USA dominance in basketball, the world won't complain
China dominance in table tennis, there is merit for concern as no one country can be bigger than the sport and when a country becomes the sport, there are going to be risks to this unevenness.

China has done great for the sport, no doubt, the success in many countries are attributed to Chinese skills, just like how China's technology industry is attributed to Taiwanese skills or Chinese basketball is attributed to USA and other countries. End of the day, those attributions are personal gains for the ones sharing out - skill set exchange for money, it is all business and monopoly is never good for the market in the world of business.

I think if table tennis can become like badminton - where any tournament, any of the half dozen countries can win it, would be great.

China has set the standard to win so high, that even they own current and next generation may not meet such standards. And also, when your stakes are so high, you are possibly going to make mistakes and CNT has made some in the past, where they have become more humane about it today - ie allow marriage and parenthood while being on the team.

Imagine Ma Long needs to be fired, because he got married or he became a dad.
The golden era of CNT didn't allow this and how many talent was fired due to the players possibly not agreeing?

One of the best women's talent was fired from the CNT for "discipline" and we will never know why or what went wrong. Her name is Guo Yue. So when the country is bigger than the sport, or when one man is bigger than the sport, you are bound to have harsh and nasty decisions - maybe many for the better, but I'm sure it can't be all for the better of every talent in that team.

Maybe CNT needs to changes its model from team to players - similar to what Japan did 10 years ago and allow each talent to develop themselves and not forcing some players to be training partners only. Each should have they own chance of they own destiny, imo. That is probably one thing that is holding back growth for many of the players in the team.

So, CNT's success is its model and I think they need to change it to succeed further.
 
says Pimples Schmimples
says Pimples Schmimples
Well-Known Member
Sep 2022
1,006
1,051
3,974
I think there is merits to both sides.

China has set the standard high, just like USA in basketball.
But for the rest of the world, the world is bigger than just one country.

Today, it is only Chinese corporates sponsoring WTT basically.
Where are the European corporates that was sponsoring back then?

maybe a more evenly contesting fight for the title would see more diverse coporates sponsoring the sport again.
Of course a closer fight for titles would be interesting, from a national patriotic viewpoint. Personally I don't care if I see semi finals or finals contested by 4 Chinese or a mix of 4 different nations, in really couldn't care less where they're from. For me it's important that I'm watching the 4 best. Current landscape is that's likely 75% Chinese contestants, so be it. For this to change requires all the other countries to catch up though and hopefully they will.
My issue is with anyone criticizing Chinese superiority along the way. I think it's churlish for folk to complain about them being so good.
As I said in another post, to have the end of Chinese dominance as a goal could mean let's celebrate a Chinese decline and everyone playing at some mediocre level rather than let's be inspired by their dedication and excellence and catch up so that we are also brilliant.
A stronger sport globally rather just a weaker China is the aim that benefits the sport but some folk (not pointing this at you btw) seem to just have something against China because of their success and strength.
Haters everywhere I guess.
It is difficult to compare table tennis and basketball per se, as even with a USA domination, most of the world's basketball is healthy in terms of financial resources.

in terms of table tennis, due to Chinese dominance, there is only a handful of countries - that see themselves close enough to challenge the Chinese, thus they have financial resources. For the bulk - little to no resources, or simply put it, you are on your own.

So USA dominance in basketball, the world won't complain
China dominance in table tennis, there is merit for concern as no one country can be bigger than the sport and when a country becomes the sport, there are going to be risks to this unevenness.
I think the world not complaining about basketball is purely a cultural bias. It's USA and Western dominance rather than eastern communist China, or socialist democracy or whatever describes it best! That's my feeling when I read much of the criticism.
But, If China are bigger than the sport as you phrase it then that is again up to other nations to up their game. But outside of Asia it's really not happening and not many countries care.
So the world at large not caring about TT, while it's a shame for fans like us, it's just the landscape of the sport since forever and again, I can't see how this the worlds indifference should be used to view China negatively.
And Basketball being healthier globally shows just how more dominant the US is than China even because basketball should be more competitive by those metrics.
My point with the BB was really to outline how certain sports are like this, they have father countries that dominate and that's just how it is.
Imagine Ma Long needs to be fired, because he got married or he became a dad.
The golden era of CNT didn't allow this and how many talent was fired due to the players possibly not agreeing?

One of the best women's talent was fired from the CNT for "discipline" and we will never know why or what went wrong. Her name is Guo Yue. So when the country is bigger than the sport, or when one man is bigger than the sport, you are bound to have harsh and nasty decisions - maybe many for the better, but I'm sure it can't be all for the better of every talent in that team.

Maybe CNT needs to changes its model from team to players - similar to what Japan did 10 years ago and allow each talent to develop themselves and not forcing some players to be training partners only. Each should have they own chance of they own destiny, imo. That is probably one thing that is holding back growth for many of the players in the team.

So, CNT's success is its model and I think they need to change it to succeed further.
The internal workings of the CNT are certainly often strange and sometimes even a bit too cutthroat. Can't argue with that. And being first, demanding excellence and pushing the boat out often comes with mistakes as win at all costs mentality can permeate too far.
If other countries could only try to 'win once ever' it would see a significant boost to the sport.
Even France hasn't done much besides get lucky with a couple of prodigies in The LeBrun brothers and it will be very interesting to see how far this will run in French culture now that Olympics and Montpellier are finished. My fingers are crossed that the sport can explode and I think with Cornilleau in France I reckon it should grow steadily now.
Sweden and Germany are fairly healthy obviously but what would be really amazing is if a couple of British players could explode on the scene like the LeBruns. That would really see the game rise in English speaking culture and bring a lot more exposure and sponsorship. One step at a time I suppose but even with big steps I can't see the game being bigger anywhere than it is in a China in my lifetime 🤷

Again, in reference to the thread title, I say, come on world, get your shit together and compete. Otherwise, be quiet about who's best unless it's to say congratulations.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
10,200
9,813
25,198
Read 3 reviews
Sweden is not as healthy as you think it is hey.
they lucky to have a few good young players, but the junior tt space has shrunk compared to 10~20 years ago.

Germany, with NER and 2 player rule for OG, and players playing till 40 years old, it is difficult to get into the team lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sims
Top