WTT Champions Frankfurt 2024

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Weird take. Considering he's had a career spanning over a decade what specific examples are you referring to? I ask because only the Chinese are much higher rated than he has been over the last decade and he's generally been pretty non-competitive with them.

weird take considering his peak was rank top 10 and top 20 for maybe only 3 years of his career (july 2016~ oct 2018) and with a stint of about 1 year at 19, then he was out of top 20 again

most of the time he is between 20~50

there are way more than only chinese higher ranked during his career.

I agree with turbozed
Gauzy is a top 10 player material, but is 20~50 most of his career, and that is a pity.
he was only top 10 for 4 months in his career

 

[ThePongCommenter]

weird take considering his peak was rank top 10 and top 20 for maybe only 3 years of his career (july 2016~ oct 2018) and with a stint of about 1 year at 19, then he was out of top 20 again

most of the time he is between 20~50

there are way more than only chinese higher ranked during his career.

It's not that weird because players in the 25-50 range are generally roughly of the same strength whereas you only start to see clear level differences between like 1-5 and 10-20 for example. There are generally only a small handful of players "much higher" than Gauzy if you consider ranking by skill level rather than the actual ranking number.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

I agree with turbozed
Gauzy is a top 10 player material, but is 20~50 most of his career, and that is a pity.
he was only top 10 for 4 months in his career

But that isn't what turbozed is saying? He's saying that the story of Gauzy's career has been making highlight reel shots in matches that he ultimately loses closely, against much better players.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

It's not that weird because players in the 25-50 range are generally roughly of the same strength whereas you only start to see clear level differences between like 1-5 and 10-20 for example. There are generally only a handful of players "much higher" if you consider ranking by skill level rather than the actual ranking number.

well, when I say top 20, it is always late teens. So it is more than the Chinese beating him....

his win/loss is in the 60% range.

If it is only the chinese, then it should be more like timo bolls win/loss, which is in the 80% range.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

But that isn't what turbozed is saying? He's saying that the story of Gauzy's career has been making highlight reel shots in matches that he ultimately loses closely, against much better players.

i guess you didn't see this

Gauzy is a top 10 player material, but is 20~50 most of his career, and that is a pity.
he was only top 10 for 4 months in his career

if he turns those close loses to wins, he will be solid top 10 for sure.
for example, getting that 60% to 70%.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

i guess you didn't see this

Gauzy is a top 10 player material, but is 20~50 most of his career, and that is a pity.
he was only top 10 for 4 months in his career

if he turns those loses to wins, he will be solid top 10 for sure.
for example, getting that 60% to 70%.

I saw that and it was quoted in my comment that you replied to.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I saw that and it was quoted in my comment that you replied to.

yes and I agree with turbozed
so i'm not sure why you are saying what I am saying is not linked with what turbozed is saying??
how many WR50 player can challenge WR5 and 10s in rallies and get into close matches? and then loose.
if he turns those to wins, he would be top 15 to top 10

anywaym with my comment on yours about Chinese... he looses to way more than Chinese.
So he is just an inconsistent high level player and it has been for most of his career.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

yes and I agree with turbozed
so i'm not sure why you are saying what I am saying is not linked with what turbozed is saying??
how many WR50 player can challenge WR5 and 10s in rallies and get into close matches? and then loose.
if he turns those to wins, he would be top 15 to top 10

anywaym with my comment on yours about Chinese... he looses to way more than Chinese.
So he is just an inconsistent high level player.

That's why there's more to winning in table tennis than just the rally right?

So I go back to my original question - Considering he's had a career spanning over a decade what specific examples are you referring to of Gauzy playing matches where he makes highlight reel points and then loses closely to much higher rated opponents?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

That's why there's more to winning in table tennis than just the rally right?

So I go back to my original question - Considering he's had a career spanning over a decade what specific examples are you referring to of Gauzy playing matches where he makes highlight reel points and then loses closely to much higher rated opponents?

lol, i won't have time to go dig them all out.

and he looses to other Europeans and Asians way more than Chinese, hence his WR is not top 10.
Guys like Harimoto and LYJ are top 10 with losses mostly to Chinese.
When you are 20 or 30 most of the past 5 years, he is loosing to way more than just Chinese.

His overall result shows he is a solid 20~30 player only.
but often enough, he has rallies and close matches that justify he can match those in the top 10.

LJK macau? korea?
Harimoto Paris og? doha? sc india?
WCQ saudi smash?
felix in frankfuit last year?
Hugo china last year?
there is just so many...
probably over 10 matches in the past 1 to 2 years were he was so close and could of beaten top 10 players so many times. But he just couldn't close it off.

its hard to deny that Gauzy is a no3 player of a country that top players probably don't want to face.
if only he have those "1 more wins" per tournament, he will be in the 10~15 space for sure.
bare in mind, the past 1 to 2 years, he is ranked around 30. and giving top 10s a run for they money, many times close matches and bows out.

BTW, he also looses against weaker players too. So is range of high level and low level is wide.
So one of those players that could of been way better

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

one should not think of WR with a linear scale but with a log scale

there is as much skill difference between WR1 and WR2 than WR2 and WR4... or between WR4 and WR8 than WR16 and WR32...

the 10% more wins that Gauzy can't get in close matches are precisely the kind of skill that he needs to get to a higher level. but its a HUGE skill to have.
those 10% are actually a big number

As Federer said, in tennis, you need only to win 52% of points. actually its even less than that ! if you could win only in tie breaks and lose 1-6 or 0-6 the other sets but still win 2-1 or 3-2 its enough !

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

one should not think of WR with a linear scale but with a log scale

there is as much skill difference between WR1 and WR2 than WR2 and WR4... or between WR4 and WR8 than WR16 and WR32...

the 10% more wins that Gauzy can't get in close matches are precisely the kind of skill that he needs to get to a higher level. but its a HUGE skill to have.
those 10% are actually a big number

As Federer said, in tennis, you need only to win 52% of points. actually its even less than that ! if you could win only in tie breaks and lose 1-6 or 0-6 the other sets but still win 2-1 or 3-2 its enough !

and that 10% is maybe only 1 or 2 points in the entire match that could of make a different

he isn't loose by margins,
just go and check his stats on how many 2 point losses he has in his career against players that should of beaten him (based on your skill difference indicator) with a bigger range.

when Gauzy broke into the top 20 and then top 10.
I thought he would stay there for longer.
WR change and Covid, then he fallen to 30-40.

one would normally say, WR change, players get inflated.
Gauzy on the other hand,,, deflated.

So Gauzy is one of those that doesn't have continental push and just can't finish close matches against WR10
so will probably stay 30 for the rest of this peak

he has the skills, just can't convert point wins to games wins to match wins.

 

[turbozed]

Didn't think I'd generate that much of a spirited discussion about Gauzy.

At least in the past year or so, I've watched a lot of games where Gauzy looks amazing, is competitive, but ultimately loses. Likely unfair to generalize his whole career as such, but seems there may be evidence of it. I can't hold any strong belief about that since I've only watched him for a couple of years and only a few games in his prime years.

In any case my comment wasn't a slight on Gauzy. I pretty much root for him every single time. So it's disappointing when he gets close but falls short of an upset.

 

[turbozed]

lol, i won't have time to go dig them all out.

and he looses to other Europeans and Asians way more than Chinese, hence his WR is not top 10.
Guys like Harimoto and LYJ are top 10 with losses mostly to Chinese.
When you are 20 or 30 most of the past 5 years, he is loosing to way more than just Chinese.

His overall result shows he is a solid 20~30 player only.
but often enough, he has rallies and close matches that justify he can match those in the top 10.

LJK macau? korea?
Harimoto Paris og? doha? sc india?
WCQ saudi smash?
felix in frankfuit last year?
Hugo china last year?
there is just so many...
probably over 10 matches in the past 1 to 2 years were he was so close and could of beaten top 10 players so many times. But he just couldn't close it off.

its hard to deny that Gauzy is a no3 player of a country that top players probably don't want to face.
if only he have those "1 more wins" per tournament, he will be in the 10~15 space for sure.
bare in mind, the past 1 to 2 years, he is ranked around 30. and giving top 10s a run for they money, many times close matches and bows out.

BTW, he also looses against weaker players too. So is range of high level and low level is wide.
So one of those players that could of been way better

You have a better memory than me to be able to list those matches out off the cuff. But yes those are the type of matches that I'm referring to. Really hope Gauzy can make a run and convert a few more close matches into victories in the near future. Especially with young guys like Jules Rolland coming up, I feel like his opportunities may be running short.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

You have a better memory than me to be able to list those matches out off the cuff. But yes those are the type of matches that I'm referring to. Really hope Gauzy can make a run and convert a few more close matches into victories in the near future. Especially with young guys like Jules Rolland coming up, I feel like his opportunities may be running short.

Yes on the LJK matches and Felix last year so we are talking about 3 matches in a year, and not a huge surprise considering LJKs poor form of late. A number of these matches listed were 0-3 or 1-3 defeats so confusing to me why they are listed and getting into whether the match felt closer than what the score says seems silly to me. You could probably play that game with anyone. My original point was hinting at what you referred to in your follow up comment - it's easy to let recency bias take effect but not fair to paint a person's whole decade long career as such.

He will probably go out on his own terms sooner rather than later. Rolland still has a good amount of ground to make up before he'd take Gauzy's seat by force.

 

[turbozed]

Yes on the LJK matches and Felix last year so we are talking about 3 matches in a year, and not a huge surprise considering LJKs poor form of late. A number of these matches listed were 0-3 or 1-3 defeats so confusing to me why they are listed and getting into whether the match felt closer than what the score says seems silly to me. You could probably play that game with anyone. My original point was hinting at what you referred to in your follow up comment - it's easy to let recency bias take effect but not fair to paint a person's whole decade long career as such.

He will probably go out on his own terms sooner rather than later. Rolland still has a good amount of ground to make up before he'd take Gauzy's seat by force.

Fair enough. Doesn't seem like we disagree on much.

 

[NextLevel]

Fair enough. Doesn't seem like we disagree on much.

Poret snd Coton are not so patient. I don't see Gauzy playing in LA 2028 but crazier things have happened.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

. A number of these matches listed were 0-3 or 1-3 defeats so confusing to me why they are listed and getting into whether the match felt closer than what the score says seems silly to me.

It may be 1-3 against Felix yesterday or it is also 32-42 (10 point, consider G1 was 8 point gap), 3 point win, 2 point win in g3 and 4.
it sure isn't a top 50 player versus top 5 player gap.

I only put the matches he lost against top 10 players.
2 of them are gap to justify level different, 10 of them are very close matches,
so, out of matches against top10 players in the past 12 months, he has done pretty well imo.

as I said, he was always so close but he just couldn't find that one point when necessary to turn these close 10 matches (games) to wins.

Top 10 with close games/matches

3 - 0

11:8 11:9 12:10

LEBRUN Felix

2 - 3

6:11 10:12 11:8 12:10 10:12

LIANG Jingkun

3 - 1

11:8 8:11 11:8 14:12

HARIMOTO Tomokazu

3 - 0

11:3 13:11 11:9

WANG Chuqin

2 - 3

16:14 11:8 11:13 14:16 5:11

LIANG Jingkun

2 - 3

8:11 3:11 11:7 11:5 5:11

FRANZISKA Patrick

2 - 3

11:2 13:11 9:11 5:11 9:11

HARIMOTO Tomokazu

2 - 3

11:7 8:11 11:7 7:11 7:11

LEBRUN Felix

3 - 0

14:12 11:6 11:9

CALDERANO Hugo

2 - 3

11:9 11:9 7:11 2:11 7:11

CALDERANO Hugo

Top 10 with bigger gap

0 - 3

6:11 8:11 7:11

LIANG Jingkun

1 - 3

11:7 2:11 4:11 6:11

MA Long

he is 30 years old. I think the journey will only get tougher for him, unless he becomes a Aruna and gets better with age.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You have a better memory than me to be able to list those matches out off the cuff. But yes those are the type of matches that I'm referring to. Really hope Gauzy can make a run and convert a few more close matches into victories in the near future. Especially with young guys like Jules Rolland coming up, I feel like his opportunities may be running short.

I really thought Gauzy would be leader and still hold off Lebrun brothers for a bit longer. I thought experience will worth something, but the brothers has just broken records - something not even CNT can produce.

the brothers entered the senior space in 2022, and that time Gauzy was about 20 in the world
within a year, both brothers became 20 and Gauzy went to 30

I guess for the rest of the world, we are lucky France doesn't have 3 Top 10 players.
but on a good day Gauzy could still give top 10 a very difficult time.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Prize money is 500,000 USD, where is the missing 25,000?

	Qty	Price	Total
Champion	1	30 000.00	30 000.00
Finalist	1	20 000.00	20 000.00
SF	2	15 000.00	30 000.00
QF	4	9 375.00	37 500.00
R16	8	6 500.00	52 000.00
R32	16	4 250.00	68 000.00
		Total	237 500.00
		x2	475 000.00

 

[d3nium]

Gauzy might not be the best player, but given the choice, I'd always watch a match featuring him over pretty much anyone else.