WTT CHAMPIONS MONTPELLIER

[driversbeat]

Is it early retirement if you quit after a great ten-year pro career? She accomplished the most in her generation. Will any of these younger girls win more, even Miwa? Remains to be seen.

Miwa has already achieved something the golden generation never has. Winning two points against CNT in a team final to secure ATTC team gold.

 

[OvrChkn]

Ito's mental game is so weak now. After winning a game you'd expect her to play more positively in the fourth game but she showed her frustration immediately after losing the first point. I think she still can do it with a good coach and sports counsellor because she did manage to find some rhythm and answers towards the end of the 4th game, but you can't play that negatively at this level and expect to win.

Hirano and Ito: 'Odo? Oh no'

Odo is technically more modern and advanced than her senpais IMO and in a WTT event like that with less pressure that difference shows. Even if Hayata's injury forces an early retirement (she'll have to claw her way back after a 1-2 year hiatus anyway) both of them will might have trouble making the next Olympic team. Will we see the golden generation fighting for the third spot in LA?

Is Hayata out for longer than expected?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

It’s tough for Miwa to continue. She’s a OG medalist. She probably want to compete to get mediocre results but wants to aim for better than what she already achieved . If the prospect of it is unrealistic to her she probably will stop. We will regret her

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Look at how LSD served. Another WCQ on the making?

Yep
LYJ actually turned around to tell coach that he can’t see anything, quite a few times.
Well, what can you do? Just accept your fate I guess

Even chinese netizens are labeling LSD as ridiculous.

The level is so close that if you dont hide serves, you might actually loose.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

For all this talk about illegal serving, it's interesting that LSD won 19/32 = 59.4% of points on his own serve, and 20/34 = 58.8% of points on LYJ's serve for the match. I would have expected there to be a much bigger difference if the illegal serve was such an advantage.

I guess you didn’t count in the psychological factor in your data.

LYJ strength is service return, so for losing 60% of it is deadly for him.
so when your advantage is taken out, it becomes a psychological factor.

He won't say it is unfair, he will still find a way to fight.
But it is unfair.
should we tell LYJ to serve illegal too, so make his own serve up to 60% win rate like that for loosing out on the receive?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

LSD is right handed. It is harder for a lefty to return illegal serves from right handed players. Same that HT has worse results against WCQ than LYJ.

LYJ does bh return most of the time, so he is stepping into “better sight “, and still can’t see anything.
Imo, right handers can’t see too!

 

[zeio]

Is it early retirement if you quit after a great ten-year pro career? She accomplished the most in her generation. Will any of these younger girls win more, even Miwa? Remains to be seen.

If she were alone, then maybe not, but Hirano was always there as a companion. As some 5ch users point out from time to time, the golden generation originally referred to just Hirano and Ito. Hirano's debut in major events was actually even earlier than that of Ito, at the Asian Games 2014, where Fukuhara beat Ding Ning in the WT F.

Ever since Tokyo 2020, too much credit has been given to Ito's achievements in XD that cover up her shortcomings in WS. Like her Asian Cup 2022 silver, her ATTC 2024 bronze was effectively handed over to her without her getting past a single CNT player (never even met one in the latter's case), which is comparable to Ishikawa's World Cup 2015 silver. Once factored in, Ito can't even compare with Hayata. And for WT, Hirano and Hayata (WTTC 2024) have also equaled Ito (WTTC 2018). In Hirano's case, she is the only one to have defeated a core CNT player in WTTC and ATTC, and she came close to beating CM at Asian Games 2022. Another unique quality is that whenever Hirano won all the way in WS and WT, she did it by beating players she had never beaten before, whether it be World Cup 2016, ATTC 2017, WTT CT Zagreb 2023 or ATTC 2024.

 

[zeio]

Miwa has already achieved something the golden generation never has. Winning two points against CNT in a team final to secure ATTC team gold.

Her ATTC 2024 WS silver (3-1 Chen Xingtong) also puts her just behind Hirano's ATTC 2017 gold. Heck, I'd even rank DHK's bronze here (3-2 Shi Xunyao, 1st win) higher than Ito's bronze and Hayata's ATTC 2021 gold.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

sad for Mima. "only" 24 but it looks she's already too old to play her style. she's a fraction less reactive and sharp than she used to be. and people know how to play her. ODO just served long to her BH like (for example) CM does...
painful to watch. maybe after all Zeio will be proven right and we'll see an early retirement from Mima ???

Mima retire first or cnt players first?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Is it early retirement if you quit after a great ten-year pro career? She accomplished the most in her generation. Will any of these younger girls win more, even Miwa? Remains to be seen.

Mima accomplishment with age factored in is probably difficult to beat, especially by chinese players.
Turning pro so young with longevity is always tough.

Maybe Miwa who is still young age can do better, but for most countries, when Mima was on top, they own players were still playing kiddies circuit

 

[zeio]

Is Hayata out for longer than expected?

Yes, way longer than she expected. She thought it would only take her 2 or 3 weeks to recover but it's been more than 2 months now.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Yes, way longer than she expected. She thought it would only take her 2 or 3 weeks to recover but it's been more than 2 months now.

because she damaged the injury even further, sadly

 

[turbozed]

For all this talk about illegal serving, it's interesting that LSD won 19/32 = 59.4% of points on his own serve, and 20/34 = 58.8% of points on LYJ's serve for the match. I would have expected there to be a much bigger difference if the illegal serve was such an advantage.

You would want to compare apples to apples. Only winning 40% on receive is unremarkable for your average player, but it might be well below average for LYJ specifically.

I suspect it might be since he is regarded as one of the most dangerous receivers with the best backhand flick.

Certainly taking away a player's acknowledged strengths and turn it into just average rate would have a large impact on results.

I don't have the stats and don't have evidence to back the assertion up, just pointing out how single statistics without any context could be misleading.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You would want to compare apples to apples. Only winning 40% on receive is unremarkable for your average player, but it might be well below average for LYJ specifically.

I suspect it might be since he is regarded as one of the most dangerous receivers with the best backhand flick.

Certainly taking away a player's acknowledged strengths and turn it into just average rate would have a large impact on results.

I don't have the stats and don't have evidence to back the assertion up, just pointing out how single statistics without any context could be misleading.

well, LYJ is indeed on of the best receivers in the world today.
and it won't be a secret that CNT is trying ways to remove that advantage and hiding the ball has worked.

just look how many balls Lin wasn't able to read and goes straight into the net or off the table.

LSD is good enough to beat LYJ without hiding.
But I guess, all stakes are up now and we are bound to see even more hidden serves.
Maybe fault services too, I hope

 

[zeio]

because she damaged the injury even further, sadly

Exactly what I warned about. Now she doesn't even know when she can return and perhaps she won't be able to play anymore. There is this thing called "compensation pattern."

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/paris-olympic-games-2024.34358/post-471420

Administering an injection is usually a risky move that could potentially shorten the career of an athlete. Hayata is not like lucky CIC who has all the time in the world to recover.

https://www.hmpgloballearningnetwork.com/site/podiatry/article/7625

Dr. Lowe concurs, emphasizing the importance of a high level athlete being able to take a minimum of a week off from high intensity workouts before returning to high level activities so as to not compromise tissue and proprioceptive protective skills.

...As he cautions, athletes should not immediately return to activity due to proprioceptive/nociceptive changes, which will only permit more trauma on an already inflamed or injured tissue.

“The injury is always more than just inflammation,” says Dr. Lowe. “It also involves restoration of the injured tissue and the kinetic environment.”

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/paris-olympic-games-2024.34358/post-471440

Look who wants Hayata to retire more here. That's needless to say. The more reason why I keep saying she has to play smarter. At this rate, she will have 2 to 3 more years to challenge China.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Exactly what I warned about. Now she doesn't even know when she can return and perhaps she won't be able to play anymore. There is this thing called "compensation pattern."

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/paris-olympic-games-2024.34358/post-471420


https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/paris-olympic-games-2024.34358/post-471440

if you ever know a sports person in person, you will understand when I say they cherish the current.
they may not have that 1 year later or 2 year later opportunity as fans would think.
there are too many variables in stake, and the only thing they can control is the current.

so it is very often that players fight through pain and injury to cherish the opportunity at current.
Hayata might not have another olympic, she could get in some accident and can't play in LA for example
olympic is still the pinnacle of any sports person and to excel well is 1st priority by far.

the understanding of pro elites within netizen world is very limited and you need to be with them to understand how much they need to sacrifice.

if you ask Hayata, if she regretted it and would do it differently if she could go back in time.
she will probably have said, she will fight through it than sit out.

the lives of sports people.... it is a sad, lonely and difficult road.

as a coach, we would actually at the opposite and protect the players..... but at least I know, the decision they choose, does have merit.

PS. when I said she damaged it further was when she started training again.

all players that played 20+ events this year should all sit out competition for 2 months!

 

[Peter93]

Brutal end to the game by Odo there.

 

[Peter93]

Odo responded tremendously well and has now forced Cheng into a time out early in the seventh. Odo might have one of the best backhands in the women's game.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

S.ODO S.ODO !!! she's been pushed hard but released everything in G6 and G7 !!!

im not hearing the French crowd chanting loud enough... hope they change that in the final

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

if you ever know a sports person in person, you will understand when I say they cherish the current.
they may not have that 1 year later or 2 year later opportunity as fans would think.
there are too many variables in stake, and the only thing they can control is the current.

so it is very often that players fight through pain and injury to cherish the opportunity at current.
Hayata might not have another olympic, she could get in some accident and can't play in LA for example
olympic is still the pinnacle of any sports person and to excel well is 1st priority by far.

the understanding of pro elites within netizen world is very limited and you need to be with them to understand how much they need to sacrifice.

if you ask Hayata, if she regretted it and would do it differently if she could go back in time.
she will probably have said, she will fight through it than sit out.

the lives of sports people.... it is a sad, lonely and difficult road.

as a coach, we would actually at the opposite and protect the players..... but at least I know, the decision they choose, does have merit.

PS. when I said she damaged it further was when she started training again.

all players that played 20+ events this year should all sit out competition for 2 months!

Hina playing through the pain to win bronze is viewed as heroic by the vast majority. Swap out Hayata and swap in either Hirano or DHK, and zeio would probably say the same. He derided Nina Mittelham for pulling out of the 2022 Euro Championship due to shoulder injury during her match with Polcanova. Definitely with the Olympics, you never know if you'll ever get another chance so Hayata 100% did the right thing. She should take however long she needs to recover.