WTT Finals Women Nagoya 2023

[zeio]

SYB 0-2 WYD
G3 58 TO by QYK, 710, 1010, 1011, 1311
WYD shoots herself in one foot.

HY 0-1 -> 1-2 -> 3-2 Joo Cheonhui
G5 77, 107, 108, 118
Best chance for Joo to win here. HY will not be caught off-guard next time. She played safe and didn't attack as much so either she is off or she thought it was an easy ride like last time but she still recovered regardless, which is a testament to her level.

YXX vs WMY
G1 107, 1012
G2 69, 89, 811
Both are BH players and it came down to the FH. YXX is missing the point-finishing power on that side.
G3 56, 59, 69 slight net for YXX, 79 TO by MLin, 711

ZR 3-0 QTY (6, 7, 10)
That tells me QTY has realized she has no chance of becoming the reserve player for Paris 2024.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Some photos of the venue. More to come later. The most exciting match to watch this morning was Han Ying against Joo.

There was only real suspense in game 1 but it is wonderful to see Wang Manyu play. Her technique is just so perfect.

 

[zeio]

They should consider inviting the champions of the WTT series at every stop instead. The way they keep running the marquee of champions (Roll of Honor) on screen yet some of them are missing here is just so weird.

2023
QTY - CT Durban
FSQ - CT Doha
Ito - CT Amman
WYD - SCT Goa, CS Frankfurt
SYS - GS Singapore, CS Xinxiang, SCT Ljubljana, SCT Lanzhou
WMY - CS Macao, CT Taiyuan
CXT - SCT Bangkok
SYB - CT Lagos, CT Lima
Harimoto - CT Tunis
Hirano - CT Zagreb
KM - CT Almaty
Hayata - CT Rio de Janeiro, CT Muscat, CT Antalya
That leaves 4 spots for the top-ranked players. In this case, HY, Diaz, Szocs, and YXX. Sorry to Joo Cheonhui and ZR.

https://youtu.be/3_4irTFerZk?t=3201

 

[zeio]

Szocs vs CXT
78, 88, 99, 910, 1210
25, 55, 57, 77 CXT still has trouble reading the serve, 78, 98, 911
20, 21, 41, 44, 64, 65 Szocs served off the table, 66 Szocs should've used a different serve here, 67, 77, 79 CXT is getting used to her serve, 89 TO for CXT, 811
13, 23, 25 TO for Szocs, 26, 46 corner edge for Szocs, 56, 58, 78 big net for Szocs, 88, 89, 99 slight net for Szocs, 109, 1010, 1210
01, 11 dead net for Szocs, 19 slight net for CXT, 29, 210 slight net for CXT, 310, 311

CM vs Hayata
51, 61, 62 corner edge for Hayata, 72, 82 endline edge for CM, 83, 93, 94 slight edge for Hayata, 104, 105, 115
Ugly
01, 31, 33, 43, 45 epic point, 46, 66 two quick points for CM, 68, 78, 79, 99 epic point but Hayata was having the early advantage, 109, 1010, 1110 slight net for CM, 1111 TO for Hayata, 1112, 1212, 1213, 1313 Hayata just can't keep her receive tight, 1413, 1414, 1514 TO for CM, 1517
10, 11, 12, 22, 23, 33, 34 CM warned for stalling, 44, 45 CM missed the popup, 46, 56 corner edge for CM, 66, 610 CM has lost her focus, 710, 711
CM to the locker room after the interval...
01, 31 slight net for CM, 32, 42, 43, 63 slight net for CM, 73, 74, 84, 85, 95, 96, 106, 108, 118
20 CM served two parallel to Hayata's deep BH, 21, 31, 33 Hayata kept this receive really tight, 73 very spinny FH from CM, 83 epic point, 86 sideline edge for Hayata, 96 too hard to win this way (staying in the point off the table) for Hayata, 106, 107 net for Hayata, 117

SYS vs Harimoto
10, 11, 21, 24, 34 slight net for SYS (?), 44, 48, 58, 59, 69, 610 very tight receive from Harimoto, 611
10, 11, 21, 22, 32, 33, 43, 45 slight net for Harimoto, 75, 76, 86, 88, 108, 109, 119
10, 16, 26, 27, 47, 48, 78 TO for Harimoto, 118 seven in a row
In early G3, SYS was getting owned in BH exchanges and yet Harimoto was holding her own in FH exchanges.
02 slight net for Harimoto, 12 Harimoto couldn't finish the point, 13, 33, 37 slight net for Harimoto, 39 epic parallel BH from Harimoto, 311 eight in a row
In G4, SYS got owned all the way.
03 TO for SYS, 43, 44, 84, 85, 105, 106, 116

Diaz 1-3 Ito (-6, 9, -3, -5)

 

[Emin]

So, while watching this Match between CM and Hayata İ have the following question:
Are the women really lacking so much in muscle and mass that they cant get in those powerful forehands from the men and rely on speed rather than power?
While the balls start fast, they lack penetration and that finishing Power.
I think SYS is the one I know who can Produce more Power in her forehand shots.

Or is there another reason!
Dont wanna start a big discussion about it, just wanna know if thats the Main reason.

 

[TareqPhoto]

Well, for me i think it is about the overall energy, punching with power will need better muscle maybe or more energy to produce, so this will make players get exhausted faster, i think men can handle longer games than women, and also punching means muscled has some sudden stretches or whatever, that could lead to injuries sometimes, otherwise how come those TT players get injuries then, same with Tennis, so women like to play smooth with speed and fluid rather than depending on many points by power.

I saw games in two or three clubs i went to, there are majority men, and some women or female, i can see clearly that female try to go with speed over power or rallies over smashes, so maybe it is that they don't like to overpower male rather than just trying to stay in game longer if she/they can, i might ask some females about it, it could be that also females are playing each other in that style rather than power, so they get used to that more, some with men, they play with aggressiveness and offensive more and lots of smashes.

 

[driversbeat]

Disappointing results,but I don't think we've seen the chinese WOMEN challenged so intensely in the first round of any ITTF/WTT finals before.

 

[zeio]

Asia, South America, Europe, Africa, that is 4 out of 6 continents, much more representative

#5 is about right and the max...

 

[Brs]

With 6 CNT playing singles, it seems a bit pointless. Most likely the CNT will occupy the semi finals.

Who cares? This is an individual event, it’s not teams.

If you think of all the WCNT as if they are one person then sure, pointless. But that is a very strange way to watch an individual tournament.

 

[tackyfh]

SYS vs Harimoto
10, 11, 21, 24, 34 slight net for SYS (?), 44, 48, 58, 59, 69, 610 very tight receive from Harimoto, 611
10, 11, 21, 22, 32, 33, 43, 45 slight net for Harimoto, 75, 76, 86, 88, 108, 109, 119
10, 16, 26, 27, 47, 48, 78 TO for Harimoto, 118 seven in a row
In early G3, SYS was getting owned in BH exchanges and yet Harimoto was holding her own in FH exchanges.
02 slight net for Harimoto, 12 Harimoto couldn't finish the point, 13, 33, 37 slight net for Harimoto, 39 epic parallel BH from Harimoto, 311 seven in a row
In G4, SYS got owned all the way.
03 TO for SYS, 43, 44, 84, 85, 105, 106, 116

Miwa's lost at the final set shows although her basics is more well-rounded than her brother at the same age, she lacks the ruthlessness that he possess. All Sun do was keep Miwa on the BH diagonal line and she blindly play, not even once pivot or changing the line to get her FH into play

 

[zeio]

平野無双

5ch users are now saying Harimoto should play WT at a minimum and some are even saying Hayata should play WT whereas Hirano and Harimoto should play WS.
https://mao.5ch.net/test/read.cgi/pingpong/1702621813/

SYS vs Hirano

Hirano vs KM

Hirano vs LWS

SYS vs Hayata

SYS vs SYB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOxlDqchjXA

KM vs H. Ojio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBg6BZaepRg
KM vs Harimoto

LWS vs Kihara
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq-i7pW5QXk

Disappointing results,but I don't think we've seen the chinese WOMEN challenged so intensely in the first round of any ITTF/WTT finals before.

View attachment 27766

 

[tackyfh]

Hayata played well today, but again the disadvantage in technique are too pronounced. Footwork isn't quick enough, her forehand and backhand form are loose which hinders recovery

 

[dingyibvs]

Miwa's lost at the final set shows although her basics is more well-rounded than her brother at the same age, she lacks the ruthlessness that he possess. All Sun do was keep Miwa on the BH diagonal line and she blindly play, not even once pivot or changing the line to get her FH into play

Very impressed with Miwa's performance, agree that she should've been more aggressive particularly with placement. That SYS hit a few beauties when Miwa hit down the line should not have deterred her from keep doing it. She simply needed more quality as thr ones SYS hit back were less quality shots from Miwa.

 

[dingyibvs]

Díaz vs Mima went about as expected. Without her BH punch (did she do even one?) she's just not good enough near the table. This results in her being pushed off the table and then got worked by Mima with the angles.

 

[zeio]

Miwa's lost at the final set shows although her basics is more well-rounded than her brother at the same age, she lacks the ruthlessness that he possess. All Sun do was keep Miwa on the BH diagonal line and she blindly play, not even once pivot or changing the line to get her FH into play

When Harimoto (2003/6/27) was the following ages, he beat the following players:
~14.8-14.9 years old - FZD, ZJK, ZY, and ML in early to mid 2018;
~15.4 years old - WCQ (in XT), LGY in late 2018;
~15.7 years old - LJK in early 2019;
Other than the undefeated XX, he had defeated all core CNT players he ran into at least once by that time.

Miwa is exactly 15.5 years old today (2008/6/16) and so far she has come close against WYD and SYS when it comes to core CNT players. Surpassing her brother and getting people to call her by her name (backup link, 03/20/2022 at 1:39pm) will be a spectacular feat. But just like what her parents want (backup link, 12/09/2022 at 2:31am), she will walk down a path different from her brother.

For the time being, Miwa should read up on how Hirano did it.
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1142906
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=91479&PID=1142944
Backup link, https://web.archive.org/web/2024012...nnoh-cup-osaka-11-2526_topic91479_page31.html (07/04/2023 at 5:02am, 07/05/2023 at 7:39am)

 

[NextLevel]

Who cares? This is an individual event, it’s not teams.

If you think of all the WCNT as if they are one person then sure, pointless. But that is a very strange way to watch an individual tournament.

They speak of their goals and missions that ways, you can't male fun of people for agreeing with how you see yourself when you haven't been diagnosed with anything dangerous.

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Díaz vs Mima went about as expected. Without her BH punch (did she do even one?) she's just not good enough near the table. This results in her being pushed off the table and then got worked by Mima with the angles.

Mima did her homework and tested Diaz's lateral footwork. As you mentioned Mima worked the angles, but also she also forced Diaz back not allowing the BH punch which I think I only saw once.

Interesting first round matchups for players to evaluate where they stand. Although Joo Cheonhui did not win, she's made tremendous progress since the last time she played Han Ying (losing at -4,-2,-4 at 2022 WTT SC Doha).

A number of 3-2 matches of China vs. the rest of the world is a positive sign. The gap is still there, but at least it's narrowing.

 

[zeio]

Miwa won 45 points compared to 42 points for SYS. She is on top in all stats and showed commendable resilience in coming back stronger to win 7 points in a row and take G4 after losing 8 points in a row to drop G3. Her technical foundation looks really solid. The issue on how to close out and maintain the lead will come with time.

https://worldtabletennis.com/MatchC...-----------8FNL000100----------&type=official

 

[turbozed]

Overall good performance by the Japanese team despite the W/L results going pretty much as expected.

Hayata didn't look like she was in form at all to threaten CM based on her ITTF Mixed Team performances, but she was looking like she had a real chance to win until CM found herself again in a new pair of shorts.

Miwa looked unbeatable in open rallies for most of her match against SYS. Dropping the 2nd game ahead by so much I thought would really wreck her mentality but she was able to take it to the decider and go up 3-0. This time, the timeout was what SYS needed to break the momentum and dominate the rest of the game.

One thing I always find interesting is how good the CNT are at not conceding to momentum of their opponents. Both CM and SYS looked to be in trouble in their matches but then are able to flip a switch and turn it right around. That ability is invaluable at this highest level of play and is likely the #1 factor in their dominance.

That makes you wonder if they just have some sort of secret sauce when it comes to mental coaching, or whether their talent pool is so deep that they are able to select for this attribute among players that otherwise have similar levels of technical proficiency.

I might sometimes have an anti-CNT mentality for what results I root for, but when it comes down to it the biggest impresssion I'm always left with is how they are able to perform so consistently with all that pressure and find another gear to be able to win. There's something important going on that's worth understanding fully, and I have no clue what it is at this point.

 

[dingyibvs]

Overall good performance by the Japanese team despite the W/L results going pretty much as expected.

Hayata didn't look like she was in form at all to threaten CM based on her ITTF Mixed Team performances, but she was looking like she had a real chance to win until CM found herself again in a new pair of shorts.

Miwa looked unbeatable in open rallies for most of her match against SYS. Dropping the 2nd game ahead by so much I thought would really wreck her mentality but she was able to take it to the decider and go up 3-0. This time, the timeout was what SYS needed to break the momentum and dominate the rest of the game.

One thing I always find interesting is how good the CNT are at not conceding to momentum of their opponents. Both CM and SYS looked to be in trouble in their matches but then are able to flip a switch and turn it right around. That ability is invaluable at this highest level of play and is likely the #1 factor in their dominance.

That makes you wonder if they just have some sort of secret sauce when it comes to mental coaching, or whether their talent pool is so deep that they are able to select for this attribute among players that otherwise have similar levels of technical proficiency.

I might sometimes have an anti-CNT mentality for what results I root for, but when it comes down to it the biggest impresssion I'm always left with is how they are able to perform so consistently with all that pressure and find another gear to be able to win. There's something important going on that's worth understanding fully, and I have no clue what it is at this point.

It's mostly a matter of training and technique. I've watched some Fang Bo videos where he talks about this. He uses some examples, like LJK who focuses on spin, has a very stable shot and is less likely to make mistakes, which tends to do well in high pressure situations. He's also talked about LGY and Togami in separate videos and pointed out how their reliance on speed makes them more prone to mistakes especially in tight situations.