Zhang Jike: "Those who rely primarily on a Backhand system, can not reach the top"

[NetProphet]

It started off quite nice, however, now it's funny to watch how people here assess the pros, judge if technique is good or not, judge how something close or far away was, compare skills, throw statements like facts. Kind of an audacity and ego to have, in all honesty. Especially when the experience, skill, training environment as well as achievements are incomparable. It's incredibly unlikely for such accomplished player like Zhang Jike to sprout nonsense, there's really no merit to that, even if taking views/media into account. Not to mention, what he said in the video is incredibly logical, it makes complete sense, it follows tendencies as well. I'd understand if this was kept as "opinionated" thread with hypothetical thoughts/insights, but right now it's just bullshit, straight up. Like, what even is this about, LMAO? Who here is actually qualified/in a position to critique? It's baffling

Dude
Do you not know who you are talking to in here? 😉
This is not be about what ZJK has said, but about peoples opinions as to what what ZJK actually means, when he says what he says, and how that can be twisted to fit their beliefs.
Only a select few who believe they know absolutely everything can enlighten us by explaining how this applies throughout the entire history of TT.
If anyone read a transcript of what ZJK actually said then 99% of the posts here are about something that only exists in the heads of narcissists who just want to argue.
Just sit back with your popcorn 😊🍿

 

[Dominikk85]

I don't know what Xu Xin proved he was the first lefty to ever lose in doubles at the Olympics.Xu Xin failed miserably even as a doubles specialist.
But I think ZJK isn't being honest here.His forehand from the right hand side has always been erratic he got the work done with physicality rather than good technique which is why he declined so rapidly.Players with good backhand aren't supposed to decline that dramatically.
The only player I can think of is Kong Linghui who had a pretty similar style on his forehand but of course didn't have the physical prowess of ZJK.

I think ZJK declined rapidly because he had an irreparable hip condition. This could of course be related to technique but it could also be related to having trained at a high level for 2 decades, not every body can withstand that.

He didn't really have a decline phase, he was still really good in 2016 and in 2017 he got hurt and essentially was done. He tried to come back but it didn't work

 

[mcangus]

I think ZJK declined rapidly because he had an irreparable hip condition. This could of course be related to technique but it could also be related to having trained at a high level for 2 decades, not every body can withstand that.

He didn't really have a decline phase, he was still really good in 2016 and in 2017 he got hurt and essentially was done. He tried to come back but it didn't work

Don't know why he had that hip condition but his forehand technique didn't seem smooth at all.He didn't rotate his body and hardly took any swing how could produce that power other than muscling the ball with his shoulder and elbow.
I remember reading a technical analysis by the China's coach on Kong's game who said that he he relied on short explosive swings and didn't rotate his hips which lead to shoulder and elbow injuries.It's not like he ever hit hard but his game declined even more sharply than penholders.

 

[Bran]

If we're talking about Saive as a strong FH player with weak BH, we should bring up Gatien, who was just one (one-sided) olympic match away from the grand slam.

He's a better example with an uncontroversial record and a FH player like they don't and cannot exist at the very top anymore.

Not sure ZJK's points are very relevant to what happened over this event.

 

[mcangus]

Gatien was a lefty though.Really fast with good third ball attacks and a mental giant.Even Waldner was afraid of him despite having the perfect game to counter him.He was as fast as Asians but with the reach of Europeans which gave him the edge.
Saive was good at attacking pushes with his backhand and could counter from mid distance.It's the close to the table backhand block that failed him.Rosskopf wasn't much different despite being renowned for his backhand.
Those players focused on attacking pushes over the table.Saive was renowned for his forehand loop/flick that even bothered Waldner for a while.His game wasn't that good against Asians because he didn't have the backhand block to expose their positioning.He did beat Ma Wenge at the WTTC but the other Europeans were better against Asians.

 

[Egon]

Agility and, accordingly, good footwork allow you to get to the ball in time and make a technically correct racket movement that has been honed over the years. If you do not get to the ball with your feet, then you have to modify your movement every time, which leads to more mistakes. This is the first thing that Zhan Jike said and it is true. But his criticism of modern chinese players is exactly what can be discussed. It is difficult for us amateurs to evaluate the speed of footwork and the quality of the forehand of the top 5 chinese players. If I had such a "weak" forehand as Lin Shidong, I would probably become the champion of my country . But a top-level player or coach can see these "weaknesses" in other top players. I don't think there is a grain of untruth in Zhan Jikes words. Hype is also possible, since with this criticism he drew our attention to his person and someone even remembered Jean-Michel Seive and other legendary players of the past. This is definitely positive.

 

[NetProphet]

Was he throwing shade at WCQ, LSD, Tomo and Hugo?

Personally I think what he said is more an analysis of Hugos improvement and climb to victory than anything else.

It could also be taken as many other things, among which, a statement to LSD that if he wants to stay where he is then he has work to do is quite likely.

The rest of this thread though 😬

 

[Egon]

I think ZJK declined rapidly because he had an irreparable hip condition. This could of course be related to technique but it could also be related to having trained at a high level for 2 decades, not every body can withstand that.

He didn't really have a decline phase, he was still really good in 2016 and in 2017 he got hurt and essentially was done. He tried to come back but it didn't work

I watched his decline at that time and saw no signs of pain, it seemed that he simply lost the will to play. I think that such a free-spirited and unpredictable athlete, who had influence over millions of Chinese at that time, could have set a wrong example for them, and the Party considered him unreliable.

 

[NextLevel]

It's as plain as it gets — I honestly don't know how much plainer you want me to say it 🤣. I never made any grand claims here. I didn’t even plan to argue, because I don’t feel in a position to argue — my level of play is nowhere near Zhang Jike’s, and that’s the whole point.

If you want it in the most straightforward way possible: I don’t believe anyone here is qualified enough to outright dismiss what Zhang Jike said. We’re all just observers — amateurs. You, me, everyone here. The gap in skill, experience, the training environment of the CNT, and the sheer level of achievement makes any direct critique from us feel like noise.

I’m 100% sure there are countless nuances in this sport that only become visible at the absolute top, and that’s not something you get from slow-mo breakdowns or fan discussions — it comes from living it at that elite level.

Your WLQ lefty comment was a sweeping generalization about personality and work ethic — not technical or tactical insight. It was subjective, and arguably disproven by left-handed champions like Xu Xin and Joo Se Hyuk. Zhang Jike’s statement, on the other hand, is rooted in the CNT’s developmental philosophy, which has consistently emphasized forehand dominance and full-body footwork in producing world champions. He’s critiquing a tactical pattern, not throwing out personality-based assumptions.

And "ZJK can criticize because he doesn't have to beat anyone anymore"... So... his achievements make his insights invalid now? What kind of logic is that? That’s like saying Bruce Lee can’t talk about fighting because he’s not in the UFC.

Audience/public critiquing professional commentary or gameplay — claiming how things should be — it’s a common problem. They definitely know better than professionals, especially ones with insane achievements... don’t they? 😂

Of course no one is "qualified" ‐ I think the problem is you haven't spoken to high level coaches and players about these things. If you have spoken to them enough, you will learn that with their qualifications, they often disagree with each other and make mistakes as well. It is when you have never done so you can act like they are deities.

Again, what he said is traditional table tennis wisdom and is the core way the CNT have trained their players for decades. If you look at CNT players in general, most of them didn't play backhand topspin oriented games until Wang Hao had significant success doing so. So it is easy to look at a current player with a relatively backhand oriented game and forget that Wang Hao was actually one. And yes, Wang Hao had a strong game. But it took him time to get to a better forehand vs backhand balance as well.

Joo Se Hyuk was not left handed and Xu Xin was never a singles world Champion. In fact, WLQ's point was that left handed -ness gave players an advantage that made ir easier for them to score points when starting and made them suffer less to get to the top and this lesser suffering manifested itself in poorer resulrs. Of course, there have been left handed world Champions (Gatien, Bengston), but as you can see, it is possible to discuss and debate his insight. So his insight is not as subjective as you make out, it is based on his experience watching players, playing players and studying the game. It has a baseline logic that cannot be dismissed without understanding the player. So is Zhang Jike's.

There are lots of forehand oriented CNT players who are struggling to get on the first team. There is a reason for that.

 

[Egon]

Of course no one is "qualified" ‐ I think the problem is you haven't spoken to high level coaches and players about these things. If you have spoken to them enough, you will learn that with their qualifications, they often disagree with each other and make mistakes as well. It is when you have never done so you can act like they are deities.

Again, what he said is traditional table tennis wisdom and is the core way the CNT have trained their players for decades. If you look at CNT players in general, most of them didn't play backhand topspin oriented games until Wang Hao had significant success doing so. So it is easy to look at a current player with a relatively backhand oriented game and forget that Wang Hao was actually one. And yes, Wang Hao had a strong game. But it took him time to get to a better forehand vs backhand balance as well.

Joo Se Hyuk was not left handed and Xu Xin was never a singles world Champion. In fact, WLQ's point was that left handed -ness gave players an advantage that made ir easier for them to score points when starting and made them suffer less to get to the top and this lesser suffering manifested itself in poorer resulrs. Of course, there have been left handed world Champions (Gatien, Bengston), but as you can see, it is possible to discuss and debate his insight. So his insight is not as subjective as you make out, it is based on his experience watching players, playing players and studying the game. It has a baseline logic that cannot be dismissed without understanding the player. So is Zhang Jike's.

There are lots of forehand oriented CNT players who are struggling to get on the first team. There is a reason for that.

Wang Hao had a very strong forehand. There is a video of him playing with a defender. The sound of the ball being hit is comparable to a firecracker. And the ball flies very fast.

 

[NextLevel]

Agility and, accordingly, good footwork allow you to get to the ball in time and make a technically correct racket movement that has been honed over the years. If you do not get to the ball with your feet, then you have to modify your movement every time, which leads to more mistakes. This is the first thing that Zhan Jike said and it is true. But his criticism of modern chinese players is exactly what can be discussed. It is difficult for us amateurs to evaluate the speed of footwork and the quality of the forehand of the top 5 chinese players. If I had such a "weak" forehand as Lin Shidong, I would probably become the champion of my country . But a top-level player or coach can see these "weaknesses" in other top players. I don't think there is a grain of untruth in Zhan Jikes words. Hype is also possible, since with this criticism he drew our attention to his person and someone even remembered Jean-Michel Seive and other legendary players of the past. This is definitely positive.

Yeah but where are the players with stronger forehand and footwork than Lin Shidong on the national team? Why is a 19 year old outplaying his supposedly forehand oriented peers?

It is better to say the kid is 19 and still has gaps that need to be closed than to pretend that his game is inferior to all the forehand oriented players he is defeating. Xiang Peng could not get out of internal team trials. Give that some thought.

 

[mcangus]

Wang Hao had a super strong forehand when he wasn't stretched that much.In terms of spin and stability it was top notch but he had fluid long strokes which is not the case with current players.Many players these days have deformed forehand technique to emphasize fast bh to forehand transition.High elbow,square stance,tucked arm etc.

 

[NextLevel]

Wang Hao had a super strong forehand when he wasn't stretched that much.In terms of spin and stability it was top notch but he had fluid long strokes which is not the case with current players.Many players these days have deformed forehand technique to emphasize fast bh to forehand transition.High elbow,square stance,tucked arm etc.

Wang Hao at 19? Or Wang Hao at 27? And in matches what did Wang Hao select in rallies and on serve return?

The game has gotten faster in some ways though the balls were supposed to make it slower.

 

[mcangus]

Wang Hao at 19? Or Wang Hao at 27? And in matches what did Wang Hao select in rallies and on serve return?

The game has gotten faster in some ways though the balls were supposed to make it slower.

Wang Hao at 19? Or Wang Hao at 27? And in matches what did Wang Hao select in rallies and on serve return?

The game has gotten faster in some ways though the balls were supposed to make it slower.

He had better serve/receive techniques than any non Chinese player with the exception of probably Rhyu Seung Min.His forehand over the table was for sure better than Ma Long or Wang Liqin.I've seen a match against Saive in 2003 World Cup where Saive beat him by serving with his backhand to his forehand and flicking the weak response with his forehand but that was Saive's specialty,Europeans of Wang Hao's generation didn't have that ability.Ovtcharov's and Kreanga's short forehand was non existent.
Boll could score some points with his lefty serve but his backhand block was very poor and his pivot didn't work either.It's true WH's pivot technique wasn't formidable but from the middle of the table his forehand was devastating a bit like Klampar on steroids.

 

[StreamOfWater]

Of course no one is "qualified" ‐ I think the problem is you haven't spoken to high level coaches and players about these things. If you have spoken to them enough, you will learn that with their qualifications, they often disagree with each other and make mistakes as well. It is when you have never done so you can act like they are deities.

Again, what he said is traditional table tennis wisdom and is the core way the CNT have trained their players for decades. If you look at CNT players in general, most of them didn't play backhand topspin oriented games until Wang Hao had significant success doing so. So it is easy to look at a current player with a relatively backhand oriented game and forget that Wang Hao was actually one. And yes, Wang Hao had a strong game. But it took him time to get to a better forehand vs backhand balance as well.

Joo Se Hyuk was not left handed and Xu Xin was never a singles world Champion. In fact, WLQ's point was that left handed -ness gave players an advantage that made ir easier for them to score points when starting and made them suffer less to get to the top and this lesser suffering manifested itself in poorer resulrs. Of course, there have been left handed world Champions (Gatien, Bengston), but as you can see, it is possible to discuss and debate his insight. So his insight is not as subjective as you make out, it is based on his experience watching players, playing players and studying the game. It has a baseline logic that cannot be dismissed without understanding the player. So is Zhang Jike's.

There are lots of forehand oriented CNT players who are struggling to get on the first team. There is a reason for that.

I'm not claiming that pros are infallible or that their every word is gospel... Of course elite coaches and players can disagree, and that’s part of what makes high-level analysis so rich.

My point is more about tone and certainty — when people start outright dismissing what someone like Zhang Jike says, without even a comparable level of play or insight, it comes off as arrogance more than constructive discussion. It's one thing to debate or analyze, another to say, for example: “nah, that’s just wrong.”

As for WLQ’s comment — I’m not denying he had logic to it. But there’s a difference between saying “left-handers may have had an easier path structurally” and making sweeping generalizations about work ethic and character. That’s the line I was pushing back on.

And yeah, fair correction on Joo and Xu — that was my bad. Either way, the larger point still stands: insights from top players should be debated with respect and context, not brushed off like fan fiction or whatnot. It just really doesn't make sense + doesn't give you a good image 😂

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Of course no one is "qualified" ‐ I think the problem is you haven't spoken to high level coaches and players about these things. If you have spoken to them enough, you will learn that with their qualifications, they often disagree with each other and make mistakes as well. It is when you have never done so you can act like they are deities.

Again, what he said is traditional table tennis wisdom and is the core way the CNT have trained their players for decades. If you look at CNT players in general, most of them didn't play backhand topspin oriented games until Wang Hao had significant success doing so. So it is easy to look at a current player with a relatively backhand oriented game and forget that Wang Hao was actually one. And yes, Wang Hao had a strong game. But it took him time to get to a better forehand vs backhand balance as well.

Joo Se Hyuk was not left handed and Xu Xin was never a singles world Champion. In fact, WLQ's point was that left handed -ness gave players an advantage that made ir easier for them to score points when starting and made them suffer less to get to the top and this lesser suffering manifested itself in poorer resulrs. Of course, there have been left handed world Champions (Gatien, Bengston), but as you can see, it is possible to discuss and debate his insight. So his insight is not as subjective as you make out, it is based on his experience watching players, playing players and studying the game. It has a baseline logic that cannot be dismissed without understanding the player. So is Zhang Jike's.

There are lots of forehand oriented CNT players who are struggling to get on the first team. There is a reason for that.

I like to add

this is all opinions.
everyone (pros) gives opinions. coaches (pros) all give opinions.
If you listen long enough, many times the opinions all contradict one another. So, someone will be right and someone will be wrong. It doesn't mean Pros can't be wrong.

Today's table tennis, players do train a lot more BH than what they used to.
But it doesn't mean FH doesn't exist any more.
It doesn't mean footwork doesn't exist any more.

It just means, players will use BH more.
And this is not a bad thing - BH create angles.
I'm sure you all saw how strong LYJ is with the angle he can create from the FH side.

BH play is all about opening up, and once open up, it is to go Forehand.
the only person who don't go forehand is Kreanga , and he is special, his BH is stronger than other pros forehand.

So ZJK is probably talking about LSD (since he lost) that he should use more FH than BH.
But it doesn't mean the whole BH oriented play is wrong.

last week when LSD was blasting those strong backhands, no one said it is bad.
he loose one match, and now the style is wrong?

LSD is world no 1.
Even when ZJK was world no 1, he loss matches - no former player comes out and blast ZJK for having technique issue (different era, no tiktok). I personally don't think ZJK's criticism is welcomed by CNT, but then again, he is the "rebel" of the team.
But its all about attention now in this online world that many former CNT players have turned to, to increase they networth.

What ZJK said is right indeed - why use bh when you can pivot and do fh.
but then maybe he did so much that his hip was bugged.
BH oriented (or strong) players from what I saw - tend to last longer too.
LSD has many coaches and great brains behind his style of play - dissing LSD, is also dissing his coaches.

 

[NextLevel]

He had better serve/receive techniques than any non Chinese player with the exception of probably Rhyu Seung Min.His forehand over the table was for sure better than Ma Long or Wang Liqin.I've seen a match against Saive in 2003 World Cup where Saive beat him by serving with his backhand to his forehand and flicking the weak response with his forehand but that was Saive's specialty,Europeans of Wang Hao's generation didn't have that ability.Ovtcharov's and Kreanga's short forehand was non existent.
Boll could score some points with his lefty serve but his backhand block was very poor and his pivot didn't work either.It's true WH's pivot technique wasn't formidable but from the middle of the table his forehand was devastating a bit like Klampar on steroids.

My point is that you are discussing him at different points in his career as if he never evolved. I am just saying that people shouldn't give ZJK's claim some privileged insight. Wang Hao also used his backhand much more often than other players - maybe that is why he lost to Ryu in the Olympics. But more seriously, it is better to just accept that sometimes 19 year olds have lot to learn about table tennis no matter how good they are than to claim that their styles are inherently weak.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

I like to add

this is all opinions.
everyone (pros) gives opinions. coaches (pros) all give opinions.
If you listen long enough, many times the opinions all contradict one another. So, someone will be right and someone will be wrong. It doesn't mean Pros can't be wrong.

Today's table tennis, players do train a lot more BH than what they used to.
But it doesn't mean FH doesn't exist any more.
It doesn't mean footwork doesn't exist any more.

It just means, players will use BH more.
And this is not a bad thing - BH create angles.
I'm sure you all saw how strong LYJ is with the angle he can create from the FH side.

BH play is all about opening up, and once open up, it is to go Forehand.
the only person who don't go forehand is Kreanga , and he is special, his BH is stronger than other pros forehand.

So ZJK is probably talking about LSD (since he lost) that he should use more FH than BH.
But it doesn't mean the whole BH oriented play is wrong.

last week when LSD was blasting those strong backhands, no one said it is bad.
he loose one match, and now the style is wrong?

LSD is world no 1.
Even when ZJK was world no 1, he loss matches - no former player comes out and blase ZJK for having technique issue (different era, no tiktok). I personally don't think ZJK's criticism is welcomed by CNT, but then again, he is the "rebel" of the team.
But its all about attention now in this online world that many former CNT players have turned to, to increase they networth.

What ZJK said is right indeed - why use bh when you can pivot and do fh.
but then maybe he did so much that his hip was bugged.
BH oriented (or strong) players from what I saw - tend to last longer too.
LSD has many coaches and great brains behind his style of play - dissing LSD, is also dissing his coaches.

Whew Tony. Thanks for putting a good word for BH play. I thought my knees gonna be screwed for sure this time, but you're my hero.

Cue @Tony's Table Tennis , read my signature.

 

[NextLevel]

So this sounds more like what I was saying. More nuance. It is just funny how some think you are only allowed to agree with everything a good player says lol. LSD comments start about 3.5mins in.

 

[StreamOfWater]

So this sounds more like what I was saying. More nuance. It is just funny how some think you are only allowed to agree with everything a good player says lol. LSD comments start about 3.5mins in.

Literally no one said that, you are making stuff up 🤣