ZhangLei on MaLong's injury: Very serious, may affect 2020 olympics.

[LordPippington]

Blaming carbs is an interesting (the British meaning of the word) theory. Look at East African long distance runners who practically live on carbs in the shape of teff, ugali and cups of tea spiced with 1dl of sugar. They train extreme hours at an effort which is miles higher than any TT player and yet can have very long careers (stepping down from track to road/marathon later in their careers). Just have a look at Lagat and Keflezigi in the US who are doing “pretty” well way into their 40ies fueled on East African diets.

On top of that, some people process carbs better than others. I know the KETO diet and zerocarb are gaining popularity quite a lot as of late, and so the BAD CARB philosophy is getting stronger. Though to say there is substantial evidence one way or the other is a falsity. What you might say, with some real anecdotal/scientific evidence, is that the processed carbs and junk food is bad for the body -- but good for the tongue!

 

[mart1nandersson]

I wasn't giving carbs the credit for their long careers. I was more trying to point out that you can be a carb fuelled elite athlete and have a healthy career.

I guess that the biggest factor for having a long career is to have a close to perfect biomechanical movement pattern when doing whatever sport you do. That paired with proper rest and a diet which is correct for the sport in question.

 

[Atas Newton]

I guess that the biggest factor for having a long career is to have a close to perfect biomechanical movement pattern when doing whatever sport you do.

that's Federer and Vladi, very efficient strokes. Vladi's reach also helps with not having to move as much.

 

[NextLevel]

Guys, I have no doubt you can eat whole food carbs and have a healthy career. I also have no doubt that fueling yourself consistently with Gatorade or similar drinks is a path towards diabetes. In fact, more and more athletes are training in relatively low carb states to avoid the high insulin effects of repeatedly using carbs. If your insulin can keep your blood sugars low, good for you. But it is something that more people are going away from.

 

[hipnotic]

I played tennis for a few years before getting in to TT, i actually quit tennis because i was always injured. There are 2 things i think are being confused here, which are effort and repercussions. You can put as much effort in TT as in tennis, you can train the same amount of hours and the effort you put in your shots can be comparable, although the tennis ball will travel longer. But tennis is much more demanding on your body. I developed several injuries which are very common in above recreational level: tenis elbow, muscle micro tears, knee inflammation, swollen feet, among others.

Sometimes i have very hard TT training sessions, but the repercussions on my body are much smaller.

 

[NDH]

Well, this was an enlightening thread.

Here's a few thoughts from myself - No one needs to agree with them

1. I don't buy the whole "ITTF wanting to limit China's dominance" thing. As it stands, it doesn't matter what you do, who you injure or what rules you change - China will always find multiple people to fill the void.

2. Table Tennis vs Tennis - Quite the emotive subject. I played Tennis to a decent level until about 5 years ago.

For me, Tennis was harder on the body, but I'm also big and heavy, so not the ideal combination for a Tennis player.

I generally found the Tennis injuries would put me out for a number of weeks, whereas I can usually play through a Table Tennis injury (obviously depending on what it is). But both are hard on the body, and I imagine I'll have to adapt my game as I get older in Table Tennis.

3. It hasn't been mentioned, but do you really think China care about their superstars burning out after 10 years at the very top? If they wanted to, they could probably have the worlds top 20.

When ZJK went down, up steps the next one. ML goes down, along comes FZD. When FZD goes down, it'll be someone else.

Why would China NOT push their athletes to breaking point? They've been intensively training them from such a young age, that although the player might only be 28, and not play many tournaments during the season, you can bet they have been training hard for many many years, and likely have the same amount of TT hours as a 40 year old European.

It's really a case of only the strong survive, and China have a whole pipeline of players who can come along and dominate.

Lastly - I don't like the ranking system that requires players to play.

We have a similar system in the UK (TT365), which effectively rewards participation over anything else - It means you have the average players who go to every tournament ahead of much better players.

 

[NextLevel]

Okay. I cede the point to FruitLoop. My sample was too limited. I suspect the specific player might play a role as well.

 

[NDH]

Okay. I cede the point to FruitLoop. My sample was too limited. I suspect the specific player might play a role as well.

Specific player, but also how well they can adapt their style as they get older.

Federer is a prime example of someone who is naturally a very good athlete (perfect for tennis) - But has moved with the times.

He moved to a bigger racket head to allow for easier power and less margin for error.

He changed his style to come to the next more, finish points quicker, and not get drawn into huge rallies.

He stopped playing the clay court season (OK, not everyone has the luxury of simply disregarding a surface) - Although appreciate he's playing a bit more on clay now.

He massively limited his schedule to ensure he was fit for the main events.

This has worked for Federer, and has allowed him to stay at the top of the game - Although I don't think it would have worked as well for 99.9% of other players - It's just that Fed is that good.

I don't think these changes would work well in table tennis.

Timo has a game that isn't all guns blazing, and can still operate at the top - As does Vlad - But they have always been like that.

Ma Long couldn't adapt his game to a less rigorous stroke and still be at the top.

It's this example which gives tennis the edge IMO.

 

[NextLevel]

Specific player, but also how well they can adapt their style as they get older.

Federer is a prime example of someone who is naturally a very good athlete (perfect for tennis) - But has moved with the times.

He moved to a bigger racket head to allow for easier power and less margin for error.

He changed his style to come to the next more, finish points quicker, and not get drawn into huge rallies.

He stopped playing the clay court season (OK, not everyone has the luxury of simply disregarding a surface) - Although appreciate he's playing a bit more on clay now.

He massively limited his schedule to ensure he was fit for the main events.

This has worked for Federer, and has allowed him to stay at the top of the game - Although I don't think it would have worked as well for 99.9% of other players - It's just that Fed is that good.

I don't think these changes would work well in table tennis.

Timo has a game that isn't all guns blazing, and can still operate at the top - As does Vlad - But they have always been like that.

Ma Long couldn't adapt his game to a less rigorous stroke and still be at the top.

It's this example which gives tennis the edge IMO.

From what I hear, Timo doesn't practice much relative to other players.

But in the end, I do know that because of multiball, you are often repeating many more shots than you would in tennis. But again, my sample was people who have played telling me specifically. My point is that if people online here are saying something different from what I heard from people who I have listened to, I should acknowledge that.

 

[hipnotic]

From what I hear, Timo doesn't practice much relative to other players.

But in the end, I do know that because of multiball, you are often repeating many more shots than you would in tennis. But again, my sample was people who have played telling me specifically. My point is that if people online here are saying something different from what I heard from people who I have listened to, I should acknowledge that.

They do multiball in tennis too.

 

[NextLevel]

They do multiball in tennis too.

But they can't do it at the same frequency. Just not possible.

 

[hipnotic]

But they can't do it at the same frequency. Just not possible.

Yes, it's not as fast but it can be very hard, you have to travel a much greater distance to get to the ball and do a much longer stroke. I used to do this, something like playing only FH in various spots of the court, or FH -> BH -> Dropshot, it was like HIIT training.

 

[Dr Evil]

Yes, it's not as fast but it can be very hard

That's why I think tennis is less stressful on the joints over time. It's both slower and more physically demanding, so no way to come close to the number of repetitions in a tt training session. It's the reps that get you in the end.

 

[hipnotic]

That's why I think tennis is less stressful on the joints over time. It's both slower and more physically demanding, so no way to come close to the number of repetitions in a tt training session. It's the reps that get you in the end.

It's not only the reps. Tennis has levels of impact on the joints that TT doesn't. You play in a much harder court where you have to run, jump, slide, and make abrupt changes of directions, that's not good for your knees... Also, you'r swinging a heavier racket around and striking a much heavier ball, that's not good on your elbow. That's tennis elbow, an inflammation of the joint.

 

[zeio]

I'm no expert in physical training but CNT, e.g., have a bunch of foreign fitness coaches with reputation from other sports for what it's worth. They really should know what they're doing.

That. I read in a journal that the GSA of Sport of China has actually invited physical therapist Gray Cook for a seminar before London Olympics. Li Sun used terms like mobility, stability and compensation in his clinics probably learnt from there.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...019-amp-Introduction-of-Performance-Appraisal

Physical fitness coaches: (6 people)
Yang Xianjun, Tomislav, Wang Xuan, Wang Xiang, Zhang Guofeng, Bartosz Bibrowicz

Physical therapists: (5 people)
Judge Karla(F), Phares Franklen, Jakub Radina, Rafal Hejna, Dionne Vernon(F)

 

[vik]

I feel the same.Ma long and Zhang Jike before were forced to play Chinese league.ML withdraw from ITTF tour and played Chinese league with injury.Chinese league killed them both.

 

[Dr Evil]

It's not only the reps. Tennis has levels of impact on the joints that TT doesn't. You play in a much harder court where you have to run, jump, slide, and make abrupt changes of directions, that's not good for your knees... Also, you'r swinging a heavier racket around and striking a much heavier ball, that's not good on your elbow. That's tennis elbow, an inflammation of the joint.

I'm sure you're right about the extra stress from running and heavier equipment (I played tennis almost every day for a decade until my shoulder gave out). Acute injuries in tennis are likely to be worse. But I think a lot of the chronic stuff that creeps up on you is from high reps and I think this is worse in tt. Can't be sure in general or even for me personally because I came to tt with a lot of wear on my joints already, but that's how it feels. There can't be too many tennis drills I haven't done and there's nothing that feels like tt multiball when it comes to high rep stress, and I don't do multiball at anything close to a pro level.

 

[TTFrenzy]

If revelling in your own ignorance keeps you happy then power to you my friend.

sorry but its a total waste of time to argue with someone who provides absolutely no valid arguement about his statements. either u are an amateur troll which is oxymoron cause the definition of a good troll is not to be exposed or spotted, or u simply dont grasp some basic stuff about TT

p.s. the comparison between tt and tennis is simply ridiculous, but anyway everyone is entitled to their false opinion on the internet

 

[FruitLoop]

sorry but its a total waste of time to argue with someone who provides absolutely no valid arguement about his statements. either u are an amateur troll which is oxymoron cause the definition of a good troll is not to be exposed or spotted, or u simply dont grasp some basic stuff about TT

p.s. the comparison between tt and tennis is simply ridiculous, but anyway everyone is entitled to their false opinion on the internet

The only troll here is you. I have provided a tonne of arguments, more than anyone in the thread. You have done nothing to argue at all but instead simply provided ad hominem attacks. Maybe contribute something, anything before you hit that reply button? Your rhetoric is empty. Your contribution is basically, "lol" "no u". Why don't you go waste your time somewhere else?

 

[TTFrenzy]

The only troll here is you. I have provided a tonne of arguments, more than anyone in the thread. You have done nothing to argue at all but instead simply provided ad hominem attacks. Maybe contribute something, anything before you hit that reply button? Your rhetoric is empty. Your contribution is basically, "lol" "no u". Why don't you go waste your time somewhere else?

dude, you have provided a tonne of arguements none of them valid. Its pointless to debate cause you already know it all as it seems from your posts.

Its ur right to think that there are no pro trainers/players in weight lifting exercises and to make comparisons between tt and tennis which are totally different sports and manage to reach in "safe" conclusions . It is ur right to write all of these yes, and its my right to find them hilarious and funny