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View Full Version : Defensive setup with an offensive carbon blade



Ilia Minkin
07-13-2015, 04:46 PM
Hi all,

I have a spare blade, Yinhe Y-4, that is a very stiff 5-ply carbon blade. I want to try long pimples for chopping to have some fun and better understand the rubber/style.

1) Does it make sens at all, or whatever I put on the blade, it will repulse like a gun?
2) If the answer to 1) is negative, what kind of long pimples on backhand will be good? Will Hurricane 8 be good as a chopping rubber for forehand or I will need an even slower rubber? I don't want to spend a lot of money on the setup, so cheap chinese rubbers are fine

PETERTT
07-13-2015, 05:28 PM
Hi all,

I have a spare blade, Yinhe Y-4, that is a very stiff 5-ply carbon blade. I want to try long pimples for chopping to have some fun and better understand the rubber/style.

1) Does it make sens at all, or whatever I put on the blade, it will repulse like a gun?
2) If the answer to 1) is negative, what kind of long pimples on backhand will be good? Will Hurricane 8 be good as a chopping rubber for forehand or I will need an even slower rubber? I don't want to spend a lot of money on the setup, so cheap chinese rubbers are fine you will get more reversal

BeGo
07-13-2015, 05:51 PM
Y 4 can make a good blocker blade, due to rather slow return, for carbon blade. :)

Consider it as poor man Joo See Hyuk or Hallmark Aurora. :)

That means, low spin soft driving rubber, or soft high reversal blocking pips would work well. :)

I doubt any Hurricane and any hard spinny rubber work well on Y 4 though. The dwell time too short for tackiness or grippiness or spin potential to kick in, “bonsai”ing spinny rubber true potential.

unknown_poster
07-13-2015, 08:53 PM
I had been struggling with the same problem. I tried the two speed Giant Dragon Kris 2 . It was good for defense but too slow in general. I heard Giant Dragon has a new blade with carbon one side but it is out of stock everywhere. I had both Giant Dragon Kris 2 modified adding a layer of carbon on offense side (another wood layer of course on outside on offensive side only) but it was still too slow for me. I modified Super Balsa 2 adding a layer of carbon one side with a thin wood layer on top but as soon as I did that I lost lots of (back) spin on long pips side (no carbon side) but forehand was great.

I tried to use thin sponge but I had such a hard time against players below 2000 as the incoming (top) spin is usually lower & so is the returned (back) spin

The problem seems to be isolating the defensive side from the effects of stiffening by the composite layer on offensive side creeping and leaking into the defensive side. Many blade makers have told me this is a known big problem. I even tried a Kevlar blade instead of carbon and it was same. All these blades have a thick center balsa core and so I thought this would provide good isolation.

Another problem I have is what wood to use on defensive side for real slow dead high vibration wood and I don't know which woods can do this. I have 2 slow defensive all wood blades that do this (one is a Hock , other is a Euro brand , can't find the name). But the problem is in offensive side as it vibrates too much and bad for blocking. These 2 blades were even more lethal in the 38 mm ball domain before Aspect ratio (when I went over 2100) with tons of spin with high (but linear & predictable unlike from a frictionless rubbe) vibration about ball flight axis, from both wings (after which I was raped over and over by Dr.Rufford Harrison & Adham Sharara with 1998 Durban Aspect Ratio Rule, 40 mm ball. pip density
rule , plastic ball etc etc)
So one question would be , if there is any known mid layer wood that would provide maximum isolation between defensive & offensive sides of the blade

I thought one solution would be to add a thin layer of sponge on OX side but it reduces spin at upto 2300 level. At above 2300 or so level OX is not very good because the incoming top spin is so powerful it bounces off the wood. This is why I think top defenders need a thicker sponge below their long pips as the sponge cushions and amplifies the incoming top spin. This is a very interesting sponge threshold point for all styles under any rubber smooth or pips.

I have seen real slow deadening and spinny wood (that I may be able to use on pips side) on some really cheap racket in a toy department years ago but I am unable to reverse engineer what type of wood layer this could be from memory. Does anyone have any idea ?

I am a case of too much knowledge of racket design is too dangerous for my own good because I know in the past I had cases where I would beat a group of players with one racket but lose to another set of player with same racket (and vice versa) as I have spent many sleepless nights how to beat all of them with same one racket and any compromise racket design, as you would guessed, have me losing to both groups of players LOL

Der_Echte
07-13-2015, 09:47 PM
IN general, if you slap on some OX LP on BH wing, and block off the bounce, you will be a king of funk and "reversal".

Over 1/2 the O40 Korean ladies use such a setup, but they are a hybrid defensive/pushy offensive kinda player different from the rest of the crowd.

They basically use the OX LP to block fast drives that are pretty void of spin or stick it out there and "reverse" (really continue spin) on a spinny loop. The biggest thing they do with their pips is to be OFFENSIVE and AGGRESSIVELY punch underspin to make a medium fast topspin drive that is often a winner.

If you give them a loose ball to their FH, they will turn on a dime and SKULL-DRUG SMASH that sucker and say goodbye to the ball as it breaks the sound barrier exiting the playing area.

Ilia Minkin
07-14-2015, 04:12 AM
Thank you all for your suggestions, especially Der_Echte :) A clubmate just gave me a spare sheet of Butterfly Feint Long 3, I will try them on the next training session -- it will be my first time playing with a non-inverted rubber. I will keep in mind about OX pips, maybe order a sheet next time I order rubbers for my main setup.

There are so many players with combination bats on tournaments, but there are only few in our club. So I hope that I will be able to understand long pimples better with this bat.

unknown_poster
07-14-2015, 05:39 AM
[QUOTE=Der_Echte;116475]IN general, if you slap on some OX LP on BH wing, and block off the bounce, you will be a king of funk and "reversal".

[QUOTE]

Not always so. There are chopping long-pips and then there are blocking long pips. As much as I rip Scholer for the Durban Aspect Ratio rule , I unfortunately have to agree with him about ban on frictionless pips though I do not believe for altruistic reasons for the sport but because of political animosity towards Dr.Neubauer. I admit Dr.Neubauer makes some fine (but obscenely over-priced) blades but I think his rubbers are evil because they do randomize ball flight paths by deliberate design (of course many frictionless players may think I am a hypocrite because I support chopping long pips but not blocking long pips but reality is that frictionless blocking rubbers behave as I explained above and give a bad image for the sport).
Before the Aspect Ratio rule almost all defenders chose Feint Long (Classic or call it 1) not because they thought they can fool the likes of Waldner or Kong (they know they cannot) but because Feint Long was the least predictable (meaning most controllable) rubber available. This is why I am so upset about that rule. I do have lot of respect however for players who do well with frictionless pips and it is not easy to learn to use them successfully as most robotNazis think but it does give a bad image for the sport when a 2700 player struggles against a 2200 player. Sadly top coaches like Richard McAfee have used frictionless pips to keep up their level till they were banned. There are still some rubbers such as Tibhar DTec Ox , Stiga Destroyer etc which act very much like frictionless and must be banned IMO. The problem is that ITTF always seems to act based on a single parameter such as Aspect Ratio only or friction only instead of taking into account the overall goal & design for a given long pips rubber. I used to see Butterfly advertise Feint Long 1 as a deceptive confusing tricky rubber and I laugh because it was least confusing & least unpredictable. IMO any rubber that advertises with claims of confusion & trickery must be banned even if it does not, because it gives a bad image for the sport.

I have absolutely no problem if a blocker uses off the table chopping long pips in close to the table blocking mode but I do have problems with manufacturers designing tricky rubbers for close to the table blocking. While I do agree it does take some skill to learn to use them, from the overall viewpoint it does give a bad image for the sport if more high level players resort to these rubbers such as Fabian Akerstrom etc.

On the other hand maybe frictionless pips should be allowed in age over 6o events only or something just as no pips should NOT be allowed in under say age 18 events.

I have tried to use rubbers like 1615 but I just could not use them because I could not use them for chopping away from the table.

BTW I do not have personally any problem or objection at all playing against frictionless rubbers (including those banned in 2008) but I am against them for reasons explained above. (In fact I really don't even bother to look at what my opponent uses)