New rubber

[NextLevel]

Which is why this thread makes me smile... like I said elsewhere, it all depends on your view of what equipment does for you game.

 

[bolterixus]

It is good to get other people's opinions as well, well that is what I think anyway.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, it often is. Especially when you know they have a good idea what they are talking about. You aren't the first or the last person to travel this road. I'm trying to explain to you that in the bigger world of TT, it is a road largely created by equipment manufacturers to take advantage of ignorance about what a rubber really contributes to your game. You would be far better off hitting with friend's blade and seeing whether you like it.

What you are doing is the equivalent of buying a car by asking people who you don't know what they think about it as opposed to test driving the cars around you and seeing which one you like best. As someone who has used a lot of rubbers and blades over the last 4 years, I can tell you that I could use anything and play at roughly the same level. IT's because I have been lucky (or cursed) to have the time and resources to play a lot and buy and try a lot of stuff. I still like collecting stuff but I distinguish that from the stuff's effects on my game.

No rubber is going to make such a huge difference to your game that you should spend time thinking over the question and if the rubber would, this is not the forum where you would be asking it in the way you are. These are the questions as I see them:

Based on how I play and the speed of the blade rubber combination I am looking for:

1. Modern rubber (Tenergy, ESN), traditional (Sriver, MArk V) or tacky (Hurricane) or hybrid (Big Dipper)?
2. Tenergy or not? If so, Evolution or not? If so, Hurricane or not?
3. What sponge hardness do I prefer?
4. Do I like high spin/speed or high speed/spin?
5. What sponge thicknesss do I prefer?

And in the end, any popular rubber at the end of these questions from ESN (which basically does all the modern rubbers not Butterfly or Stiga), Butterfly or Stiga will play pretty well. Then you just adapt to it. I have played at pretty much the same level when using Tenergy 05 and Evolution MX-S and Yinhe Big Dipper. I just have different things that show up in my game to compensate when using one or the other but I play roughly the same. I have seen other players change rubbers and they conclude the same thing.

It's only when a rubber is offbeat and not that popular (Tenergy 25) or when you know you like a certain rubber like Tenergy 05 and you then go to something different like Calibra LT and have no desire to adjust.

 

[bolterixus]

so answering your questions,

1. Modern rubber (Tenergy, ESN), traditional (Sriver, MArk V) or tacky (Hurricane) or hybrid (Big Dipper)? Im looking for a modern rubber.

2. Tenergy or not? If so, Evolution or not? If so, Hurricane or not? Not tenergy, not hurricane. Maybe something like EVO, Omega V

3. What sponge hardness do I prefer? Medium

4. Do I like high spin/speed or high speed/spin? High speed/spin but still fair amount of control

5. What sponge thicknesss do I prefer? 2.0 for FH

 

[NextLevel]

so answering your questions,

1. Modern rubber (Tenergy, ESN), traditional (Sriver, MArk V) or tacky (Hurricane) or hybrid (Big Dipper)? Im looking for a modern rubber.

2. Tenergy or not? If so, Evolution or not? If so, Hurricane or not? Not tenergy, not hurricane. Maybe something like EVO, Omega V

3. What sponge hardness do I prefer? Medium

4. Do I like high spin/speed or high speed/spin? High speed/spin but still fair amount of control

5. What sponge thicknesss do I prefer? 2.0 for FH

Then with the criteria of relatively high speed/spin (I myself prefer high spin/speed), medium, 2.0mm, modern rubber that isn't Tenergy, then you are looking at things like Calibra LT, Rhyzm 42.5 and Andro Rasant. The problem though is that you may not be sure what high speed/spin is until you use it so if you can, find someone with one of these rubbers and see whether you like them.

If you want high spin/speed, then Evolution EL-P/FX-P and Rasant Grip come into play.

All these rubbers are pretty good and any one of them will have you around the same level. Manufacturers will like you to believe otherwise, but the differences show up at a level that when you get there, you definitely will not be asking those questions here anymore, but only to individuals you trust.

 

[bolterixus]

OK thanks.

Just so it is easier for me compare. Would you say that the rubbers: Calibra LT, Rhyzm 42.5 and Andro Rasant are faster and spinnier than vega europe?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Now I just don't know which one to choose. If El-p, omega be europe, pro. What could you say is the difference against these rubber comparing to vega europe. Is it a huge amount of speed more or just a bit?

Ty

Vega Europe is on the slow side and it is not hugely spinny. It is very good rubber for its control. It's spin is good but nothing like Evo EL-P. Evo EL-P is also harder than Vega Europe closer to the hardness of Vega Pro, but a bit softer. So EL-P would be faster, grab the ball much more and get more spin.


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[NextLevel]

OK thanks.

Just so it is easier for me compare. Would you say that the rubbers: Calibra LT, Rhyzm 42.5 and Andro Rasant are faster and spinnier than vega europe?

Terms like "faster" and "spinnier" are dangerous. There is the speed/catapult of the rubber, there is the grip/pips/spin of the rubber, and then there is the ratio of both. Something grippy and very fast will be fast and spinny, but if the speed ratio overwhelms the spin/grip, it may not be as spinny as something slower but reasonably fast. Baracuda for example is relatively slow, but is high grip, so it is considered pretty spinny. Tenergy 05 is high grip and high speed, but the high grip part makes it very spinny even when compared to slower rubbers. And the high grip/spin makes it possible for a skilled user to hit faster loops than someone could with something supposedly faster because higher spin can encourage more risk taking with power. But for some people, they just want their topspin to go through the table fast and will let their accuracy be determined by the power of their stroke - these are the Calibra LT and Tenergy 64 fans, though T64 has much more grip than Calibra LT.

Calibra LT is definitely faster than Vega Europe and is harder as well. Spinnier, not so sure as I am not a fan of LT.
Rhyzm 42.5 is in the same class and is likely faster and spinnier if you have a good stroke.
Rasant is definitely faster and likely spinnier. I would likely recommend Rasant Grip over Rasant if you care about the spin - Grip is also fast but has more spin.

 

[bolterixus]

I see

 

[NextLevel]

My recommendation to most people in your shoes is to buy a popular modern rubber. Vega Europe is a bit soft, and it was a popular but not very much so on the forehand. If you had used something more in vogue like Vega Pro or Baracuda or Tenergy, you would have had a more popular baseline to compare to reviews.

Buy sheets of EL-P or FX-P. On mytabletennis.net, look for a guy called tibike. He usually sells equipment at great prices. Or you can buy from TimTTS.be as well. Once you have used that, you will be very happy with the rubbers. And when they bore you, or you want switch, you will have a baseline against which you can discuss other rubbers.

That said, I still think it is best to try before you buy. Argothman at mytabletennis is the last guy I remember who was like you and people like you show up every once in a while. Tabletennis reviews are like Amazon reviews - they can tell you what is popular and what is good, but they cannot tell you what is good for you unless you accept that what is popular and good is good for you. The problem is that in TT, a lot of stuff is good and popular below the World class levels. So there is no need to obsess over equipment once you have a trusted brand name and rubber. Some player much better than you in some part of the world is using it and that gives you time to work on your game.

If you think the choice of rubber will make a big difference to your game, it will not. That's what I think drives people who ask for opinions and they don't understand that TT equipment is not like buying a car, where a car is objectively faster. The kind of technique required to make TT equipment work is 97% plus of the differentiator when it comes to quality given all the popular brands. In driving, the car is the differentiator when it comes to speed as popular brands are truly different. Not a perfect analogy but I hope it gets the idea across.

 

[bolterixus]

Yeah it does. But still I want a new rubber lol.

 

[NextLevel]

Yeah it does. But still I want a new rubber lol.

And I thought I told you which one to get. But like I said, I know your type.

 

[bolterixus]

I know you told me to get EL-P, and I think I probably will, but I want the rubber for around a year, so I want to make the right decision. I just have a dilemma between Xiom Omega europe and EL-P and also Calibre LT or spin

 

[NextLevel]

I know you told me to get EL-P, and I think I probably will, but I want the rubber for around a year, so I want to make the right decision. I just have a dilemma between Xiom Omega europe and EL-P and also Calibre LT or spin

OK. Good luck. And write a review after so others like you can be informed.

 

[The Juice]

Are you a hitter or a looper?

Have you tried "donic bluefire m1 turbo"? It's a bit heavy, but it's great at mid distance for me. And against the harder hitters it really helps returning pace. Depending on your loping technique it loops very well. Accidently I got a 3-4 foot loop to drop at mid distance. I was shocked. Lol

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Just for the info: Xiom Vega Pro is much more useable and popular than Vega Europe. Vega Pro has great control, decent spin but not that much speed. It is good for the speed to spin ratio that Next Level was talking about. But Vega Europe, a lot of people avoid that because it is too slow and too soft for modern rubbers. And it does not generate a ton of spin. You can use it. It is fine. But it is slower than most of the rubbers being talked about.

The Vega series is an older generation of rubbers that owes its popularity to the control and the fact that it is adequate, not great at anything but good enough at everything to make the lower price attractive. These things make Vega Pro a good rubber, especially for people getting their first Tensor type rubber: it is good to start start off with.

And someone like Det_Echte who loves to show how he can use almost any rubber on his BH and play great with it would jump in here and say how he can use Vega Europe for BH and tattoo the ball. Which goes to show that NextLevel's comment about technique is pretty valid. If your technique is good, pretty much any of these rubbers will be good.

As far as Calibra is concerned, I would not use that rubber if I was being paid to. It seems that the guys sponsored by Stiga won't use Stiga rubbers either. Perhaps that doesn't really mean much. But it might.

I know one player in the 2500 range who uses Calibra LT Sound. But he played 15-25 feet back from the table and lobs and then looks for spots to counterloop. It seems to work for that game. But man that topsheet feels like the topsheet doesn't grab or spin the ball at all and the sponge is bouncy like a trampoline.

So if you want to spin the ball, I wouldn't use Calibra.

By the way, I know a player who was sponsored by Stiga and she asked Stiga if she could use their blades and use rubbers from a different company!!!! They said NO!
So she dropped Stiga and switched to Butterfly. She straight up told them she couldn't compete against players using Tenergy if she had to use Stiga rubbers. That was a few years ago. Perhaps with the Airoc rubbers it is different. But somehow I doubt that.

Most of the rubbers being discussed are faster and get more spin than Vega Europe. But not the Calibra rubbers. They are way faster but not so spinny.

But if you do like Vega Europe, it still can be used quite effectively.

It was the rubber I made my sister get for her backhand when she needed more control about 2 years ago. It was perfect because it slowed her down and helped her improve her technique.


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[The Juice]

Just for the info: Xiom Vega Pro is much more useable and popular than Vega Europe. Vega Pro has great control, decent spin but not that much speed. It is good for the speed to spin ratio that Next Level was talking about. But Vega Europe, a lot of people avoid that because it is too slow and too soft for modern rubbers. And it does not generate a ton of spin. You can use it. It is fine. But it is slower than most of the rubbers being talked about.

The Vega series is an older generation of rubbers that owes its popularity to the control and the fact that it is adequate, not great at anything but good enough at everything to make the lower price attractive. These things make Vega Pro a good rubber, especially for people getting their first Tensor type rubber: it is good to start start off with.

And someone like Det_Echte who loves to show how he can use almost any rubber on his BH and play great with it would jump in here and say how he can use Vega Europe for BH and tattoo the ball. Which goes to show that NextLevel's comment about technique is pretty valid. If your technique is good, pretty much any of these rubbers will be good.

As far as Calibra is concerned, I would not use that rubber if I was being paid to. It seems that the guys sponsored by Stiga won't use Stiga rubbers either. Perhaps that doesn't really mean much. But it might.

I know one player in the 2500 range who uses Calibra LT Sound. But he played 15-25 feet back from the table and lobs and then looks for spots to counterloop. It seems to work for that game. But man that topsheet feels like the topsheet doesn't grab or spin the ball at all and the sponge is bouncy like a trampoline.

So if you want to spin the ball, I wouldn't use Calibra.

By the way, I know a player who was sponsored by Stiga and she asked Stiga if she could use their blades and use rubbers from a different company!!!! They said NO!
So she dropped Stiga and switched to Butterfly. She straight up told them she couldn't compete against players using Tenergy if she had to use Stiga rubbers. That was a few years ago. Perhaps with the Airoc rubbers it is different. But somehow I doubt that.

Most of the rubbers being discussed are faster and get more spin than Vega Europe. But not the Calibra rubbers. They are way faster but not so spinny.

But if you do like Vega Europe, it still can be used quite effectively.

It was the rubber I made my sister get for her backhand when she needed more control about 2 years ago. It was perfect because it slowed her down and helped her improve her technique.


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Xiom Omega 4 Pro is a bit slower than tenergy. And it's a bit softer as well. But close to the table and mid-range, I can't imagine another rubber blowing it away in performance. Now the life of the rubber is something else totally. Mine lasted about 2.5 months. That's at 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. And I could really tell when it started to change. I love it, but I'm about to switch BH rubber to something faster. I've got a DHS N301 I'm spying out. I still need spin on the bh but I need more speed. Thinking of one of the hurricane rubbers for the bh. Neo probably

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Xiom Omega 4 Pro is a bit slower than tenergy. And it's a bit softer as well. But close to the table and mid-range, I can't imagine another rubber blowing it away in performance. Now the life of the rubber is something else totally. Mine lasted about 2.5 months. That's at 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. And I could really tell when it started to change. I love it, but I'm about to switch BH rubber to something faster. I've got a DHS N301 I'm spying out. I still need spin on the bh but I need more speed. Thinking of one of the hurricane rubbers for the bh. Neo probably

If you look at the top Chinese players, there is a reason why they use H3 on their FH and not on their BH. I would not use a hard, tacky rubber on BH if I was you. Those rubbers require a big powerful swing and lots of impact for use which makes them better suited for the large swing of a FH. There are plenty of people who use them for BH. But nobody who really knows what is best for their BH does.

If you are playing 5 hours a day, 6 days a week, there aren't too many rubbers that would last much longer than 2.5 months. At least if you are playing that much with deep, brushing impact on the rubber.

Omega V is a step up from Omega IV and Omega V Pro would be a comparable speed to T05. Rubbers to consider also are Victas V>01 and Tibhar Evolution EL-P for BH. Those both last a long time.

 

[bolterixus]

Would Omega V Pro, or europe be good for a FH rubber rather than BH.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Would Omega V Pro, or europe be good for a FH rubber rather than BH.

Pro would be better for most than Europe. Der_Echte would want Europe. But both are great rubbers. Pro is not too hard. It is in between medium and hard. The hardness is also comparable to T05. Europe is in between medium and soft. It is a bit softer than most people would want on their FH. But I do know a few people who like softer rubbers on FH. So, if that is you, Omega V Europe would be excellent.


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