Equipment advice for progressing junior

[zzz]

Hello I am 14 and have been playing table tennis for about 10 months now.
I am a quick learner and have been progressing very quickly so far.
So far have played in several tournaments this year with some good wins and losses.
I currently use the Palio Legend Blade (premade), the dawei super power 2008 on the fh and the skywing 729 friendship on the bh.
As of now I feel I can control the speed and power with ease, receiving and attacking and am looking for something to make my game go up a level.
I would consider myself an attacking player.
Price is not too much of an issue however It still needs to be reasonable.

Thanks in advance

 

[NextLevel]

Have you spoken to your coach about this? What did he/she recommend?

 

[NextLevel]

Have you tried what the kids around you use and do you think you can control it? Usually, of you had coaching, I would say to use what they were using. Without coaching, it is a bit more dangerous. Do you loop very well?

For a blade, I would recommend Tibhar Stratus Powerwood. It is a classic 5-ply with enough speed to compete with composite blades if necessary. Also relatively cheap if budget is an issue for you. It will enable you to continue to figure things out without a coach.

For the rubber, I would say that it depends on your budget. There are many options. If you don't want to do Tenergy 05/80 or Tenergy 05/80 Fx and swim with the sharks, I would say either Vega Pro or Donic Baracuda would be a good starting point. Both are old generation Tenergy 05 substitutes.

If you want something newer and have a wider budget, you could try Tibhar Evolution (you can read Paul Drinkhall's reviews) or Rasant Grip.

If I didn't know you, I personally would start you on Tibhar Stratus Powerwood with Donic Baracuda in Max.

 

[raazzz]

Stiga Allround classic can be a good choice as a blade. For rubber I recommend you to get somthing with good control and the thickness 1.9 or 2.0. Tenergy I think is to earlie to start using.

 

[josephluck]

Use something a little more controllable than tenergy and watch how, in a couple of years time, you'll overtake all your current competition as you'll have much better ball feeling and control in comparison! As NextLevel said, an older generation tensor would do the trick

Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk

 

[samsoung]

Primorac Off- is a classic 5-ply Wood blade, I recommend this blade to my students and they've been happy so far.
It's fast but not too fast and it has very good control. If u need more Speed, just get a thicker sponge or faster rubber.

In my Opinion, Tenergy and other Tensors are too much to handle for a beginner, tweak your techniques first.

In our Club nobody plays Tenergy but some do play Tensors like (Bluefire, Acuda and Omega V) but all of the kids are playing Donic Vario or Sriver Fx/ EL.

Hope I could help

cheers

 

[Tommy16]

Next Levels posts are allways very informative. However I think that this time you should not to read the last word max. Since you have played just 10 month should start with thinner sponges. Rubbers with max sponge are more for people who has steady technique and loops has enough power to use advantages of the sponge. To learn a proper technigue you should use a thinnerr sponge like 1.8 or 2mm. Otherwise I agree totally with NL.

Have you tried what the kids around you use and do you think you can control it? Usually, of you had coaching, I would say to use what they were using. Without coaching, it is a bit more dangerous. Do you loop very well?

For a blade, I would recommend Tibhar Stratus Powerwood. It is a classic 5-ply with enough speed to compete with composite blades if necessary. Also relatively cheap if budget is an issue for you. It will enable you to continue to figure things out without a coach.

For the rubber, I would say that it depends on your budget. There are many options. If you don't want to do Tenergy 05/80 or Tenergy 05/80 Fx and swim with the sharks, I would say either Vega Pro or Donic Baracuda would be a good starting point. Both are old generation Tenergy 05 substitutes.

If you want something newer and have a wider budget, you could try Tibhar Evolution (you can read Paul Drinkhall's reviews) or Rasant Grip.

If I didn't know you, I personally would start you on Tibhar Stratus Powerwood with Donic Baracuda in Max.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The info NextLevel posted is top notch. I don't think much more needs to be said.

I would take the Tibhar Stratus Power Wood over the Butterfly Primorac Off- because the blade is 30% less expensive and it has better feeling. I would take the Tibhar blade over a Stiga Allround Classic because that blade is outdated. It is Allround for a 38mm ball which means it is too slow for the 40+ ball or even the 40mm Celluloid balls. If you wanted something a little less expensive that is about as good but a bit slower, the Stiga Allround Evolution is pretty nice. The one downside to it is that it is a bit delicate so that, when you bang it on the table, the wood can't handle that. And accidental dings happen. But I used an Allround Evolution for almost 2 years and it was great for me.

As far as rubbers, I would stick to what NextLevel said as well. Tibhar Stratus Power Wood with Donic Baracuda in Max would be a great setup.

 

[NextLevel]

Baracuda is relatively slow, so max is not a problem. Max or 2.0, not that much difference if you play a lot and you are trying to feel things out. The one thing is that he is young and young kids learn to adapt pretty quickly. I personally would start him off with Tenergy if he had the money for it. You don't want kids who have potential and want to play aggressively to have to change setup repeatedly. But I have seen kids do well with tensors as well, so it is not the end of the world.

 

[Tommy16]

I still disagree with NL and Carl (who is a among with the NL very high in my list when it comes to posters whit valuable things to say). When I started training about 30 years ago everyone started with 1.5mm sponge and I think that we all learned to handle our gears quite well. When I stepped up to thicker rubbers and speedglue I was able to use that extra speed right away. Ofcourse young people can addapt to thick rubbers usually quite easily but at the same time, especially if you don´t have a coach yu can very easily develope some flaws to your technique wich are really hard to unlearn afterwards. So i think it desn´t matter if rubber is fast or slow the thicker sponges allways feels different from thinner sponges. Well I might be biassed becouse I´m in a minority who thinks that with modern esn rubbers 2mm sponge are much better than max ones. Back in sg era I used max sponges but with the modern rubbers I have allways felt that max sponges doen´t suit to my tecnigue as well as 2mm. But hey what ever you choose you don´t make a huge mistake. just keep up the great spirit and enjoy this beautiful game!

Baracuda is relatively slow, so max is not a problem. Max or 2.0, not that much difference if you play a lot and you are trying to feel things out. The one thing is that he is young and young kids learn to adapt pretty quickly. I personally would start him off with Tenergy if he had the money for it. You don't want kids who have potential and want to play aggressively to have to change setup repeatedly. But I have seen kids do well with tensors as well, so it is not the end of the world.

 

[NextLevel]

I still disagree with NL and Carl (who is a among with the NL very high in my list when it comes to posters whit valuable things to say). When I started training about 30 years ago everyone started with 1.5mm sponge and I think that we all learned to handle our gears quite well. When I stepped up to thicker rubbers and speedglue I was able to use that extra speed right away. Ofcourse young people can addapt to thick rubbers usually quite easily but at the same time, especially if you don´t have a coach yu can very easily develope some flaws to your technique wich are really hard to unlearn afterwards. So i think it desn´t matter if rubber is fast or slow the thicker sponges allways feels different from thinner sponges. Well I might be biassed becouse I´m in a minority who thinks that with modern esn rubbers 2mm sponge are much better than max ones. Back in sg era I used max sponges but with the modern rubbers I have allways felt that max sponges doen´t suit to my tecnigue as well as 2mm. But hey what ever you choose you don´t make a huge mistake. just keep up the great spirit and enjoy this beautiful game!

To be fair, I do use 2.0mm, but in a hard sponge and largely because of weight concerns. As an alternate point of view, Werner Schlager said that it is better starting promising beginners off with thicker sponges as the fewer changes the learner has to make to his technique, the better. The difference in max and 2.0mm for me tends to show up when pushing and 2.0mm encourages brushing over loop driving, which is the more modern approach to looping. For kids, what they get used to tends to become the norm.

The OP will still need coaching or something like it. I've tried to strike a balance between having something that allows him to stay the same and change and having used Baracuda in both max and 2.0mm, I couldn't say one was better or worse than the other. But if the OP decides to use 2.0mm, I will not start grabbing pitchforks.

 

[Tommy16]

Hey what do we know. If Werner says that it is better to start with thicker sponge I think that I have to put my hands down grab my jacket and find out the easiest way out. And the end I have to say that it´s great to read your well argumented posts. Keep it going!

To be fair, I do use 2.0mm, but in a hard sponge and largely because of weight concerns. As an alternate point of view, Werner Schlager said that it is better starting promising beginners off with thicker sponges as the fewer changes the learner has to make to his technique, the better. The difference in max and 2.0mm for me tends to show up when pushing and 2.0mm encourages brushing over loop driving, which is the more modern approach to looping. For kids, what they get used to tends to become the norm.

The OP will still need coaching or something like it. I've tried to strike a balance between having something that allows him to stay the same and change and having used Baracuda in both max and 2.0mm, I couldn't say one was better or worse than the other. But if the OP decides to use 2.0mm, I will not start grabbing pitchforks.

 

[NextLevel]

Hey what do we know. If Werner says that it is better to start with thicker sponge I think that I have to put my hands down grab my jacket and find out the easiest way out. And the end I have to say that it´s great to read your well argumented posts. Keep it going!

To be fair again, the way the question he was responding to was worded, you could consider 1.8mm thick sponge as well, though the answer was clearly one that said that one should go to the promised land as soon as possible so that technique could remain consistent. The juniors in my club use setups that their coach cannot use, and have almost always used max sponge, and pretty effectively as well. I have concluded that kids can learn to use anything once well taught. They always laughed in the past when I gave them my all wood oversized head blades with slower rubbers to try. One of them flat out said "I can't play with this sh*t!" He was already then higher rated than I was.

 

[jord1484]

i'm in a similer situation to you and i'm getting a timo boll all blade and butterfly flextra rubbers or keeping my current blade(palio ka) and buying mark v or sriver.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Hey Tommy16, the first thing to know is, more perspectives are good to have. Your perspective is a solid one that comes from experience. The truth is, there are a large range of things that would be useful in this circumstance.

The biggest thing to look out for would be advice like: "Get a Schlager Carbon! It's the fastest!" Or: "Get the ZJK Super ZLC. It's the most expensive, therefore it must be the best!"

Recommending more caution is not bad. I would say, your info would be top notch if this was still 30 years ago. Why do I say that? The 38mm ball. I hit with one recently. For the longest time I thought, "38mm ball is just better!" I have nostalgia for it. But, in hitting with one with today's equipment, man those things are fast. All of what I am using, which for today's 40+ Poly ball is good control equipment, is too fast for the 38mm ball.

But then there is also the fact that the technique has changed so much. 20 years ago there was a lot more blocking and driving and most players did not loop from both wings to the same extent or even anything close to how they loop from both wings these days. So, even without knowing Werner Schlager's way of thinking about this, we can see that thinner rubbers are better for hitting and driving and thicker rubbers encourage a player to learn the contact for spinning the ball more.

But we can also look at one other piece of information:

I currently use the Palio Legend Blade (premade), the dawei super power 2008 on the fh and the skywing 729 friendship on the bh.

The FH rubber is a Chinese (Euro imitation) rubber. It is a good control rubber but it is designed to imitate the the feel of the older ESN rubbers. The BH rubber is a control Chinese rubber. I am not sure which Palio blade that is because it probably is not the Palio Legend 1, 2,3 or 4, or, I should say: at least I hope not. Those are ALC blades and are not inexpensive and probably not great for learning.

So he is most likely, already using something in the slightly lower quality bracket that is closer to what NextLevel first recommended anyway. The change would be a logical step towards equipment that could help him develop good technique for today's game.

In any case, the biggest issue you brought up that is truly worth looking at: those bad habits: coaching would be more important to avoid them than equipment would. And with a decent 5 ply all wood blade, there are lots of rubbers that would be okay.

But I think NextLevel has identified the first issue for anyone looking to improve from the level of a newer player, and that is learning the contact and technique for spinning the ball. And he has also identified the way to avoid developing bad habits and how to fix bad habits you have already developed: GOOD COACHING.

But different perspectives that have some thought behind them are always valuable.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

i'm in a similer situation to you and i'm getting a timo boll all blade and butterfly flextra rubbers or keeping my current blade(palio ka) and buying mark v or sriver.

You should probably get what NextLevel already recommended for the OP. Getting a blade like a Timo Boll blade as a new learning player is not a great idea. Getting one with something like Flextra compounds the mistake. If you get a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood you could get pretty much any tensor rubber you want including Tenergy and it would be better for your development than the two options you are thinking of getting.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

 

[NextLevel]

You should probably get what NextLevel already recommended for the OP. Getting a blade like a Timo Boll blade as a new learning player is not a great idea. Getting one with something like Flextra compounds the mistake. If you get a Tibhar Stratus Power Wood you could get pretty much any tensor rubber you want including Tenergy and it would be better for your development than the two options you are thinking of getting.


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

It's a Timo Boll ALL blade. The speed is influencing him - koto outers are not my thing so I don't recommend them, but some people absolutely love them.

I think that anyone who uses Flextra is going to play a deadball style for way too long. And that's the challenge - if you really want to learn to topspin, rubbers like Flextra hurt more than help. The minimum you should be getting to topspin is probably a Sriver/MarkV/Friendship 729 FX level equivalent and those all make it harder than even a low cost tensor like Aurus or Rhyzm. Attacking backspin is critical to get good quickly and it is just harder to do with a traditional rubber.

So unless Jord1484 plans not to topspin aggressively anytime soon, I think he should move on to a tensor. Mark V and Sriver are okay, but again, looping on both sides if you have a good friend or a good coach is the way to go. If not, yet the Mark V so that this option is still open. Flextra is not the way to go.

 

[Der_Echte]

I'm not gunna discount 30 years of successful practical experience that some like Tommy16 have to offer. (what a deceptive young sounding name)

I am my own man and have my own views and feel I am wider than the Pundits. Pundits know what works as they have seen it and done it. I will not never say that way (of thin rubbers at first and SLOW blades) doesn't work.. it DOES. I have only been saying there are also other ways, like simply using appropriate equipment and that is a wide range.

I wish there were another dozen posters like Tommy on each of the forums. Like NL and Tommy are saying, it is good for perspective.

I think the junior in question if he is sound in the fundamentals, could move up to whatever equipment is appropriate for his desired playing style. That could be a lot of the blades suggested and (if he doesn't want to fork over the money for T05) a good mid firm/mid soft modern OFF rubber. Literally thousands of potential combinations there.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It's a Timo Boll ALL blade. The speed is influencing him - koto outers are not my thing so I don't recommend them, but some people absolutely love them.

Timo All is way to expensive for the crappy blade that it is and I would definitely rather any number of blades over it. [emoji2]


Sent from Godric'sHollow using the ResurrectionStone

 

[NextLevel]

I'm not gunna discount 30 years of successful practical experience that some like Tommy16 have to offer. (what a deceptive young sounding name)

I am my own man and have my own views and feel I am wider than the Pundits. Pundits know what works as they have seen it and done it. I will not never say that way (of thin rubbers at first and SLOW blades) doesn't work.. it DOES. I have only been saying there are also other ways, like simply using appropriate equipment and that is a wide range.

I wish there were another dozen posters like Tommy on each of the forums. Like NL and Tommy are saying, it is good for perspective.

I think the junior in question if he is sound in the fundamentals, could move up to whatever equipment is appropriate for his desired playing style. That could be a lot of the blades suggested and (if he doesn't want to fork over the money for T05) a good mid firm/mid soft modern OFF rubber. Literally thousands of potential combinations there.

DerEchte,

How many adults got as good as you did during your time training in Korea? Just curious.