Croatian player loses his sh#t

[izra]

well 10 years isnt a couple of years is it ? and certainly the comparison does not mean much because 10 years before the old player maybe was a great player . The young player's mentality was playing its part. he missed several easy balls that he wouldnt have missed if he wasnt so pissed of.

he was certainly quicker and more consistent than he is now, but the deceptiveness does not go away that easily. dtop made an excellent post comparing the two players. if at 60 he can still beat his 20 year old opponent that just means he is a player of a different class.

 

[TTFrenzy]

he was certainly quicker and more consistent than he is now, but the deceptiveness does not go away that easily. dtop made an excellent post comparing the two players. if at 60 he can still beat his 20 year old opponent that just means he is a player of a different class.

Yes exactly, "people" (hehe) misunderstood and thought that I was considering the defender as a whole to be inferior which I didnt. I was commenting solely on technique, he played smarter with more patience and varied the game more so he deserved to win. I never said anything less or anything more than that.

 

[izra]

so you're saying that returning those loops with backspin takes a lower level of technique than to produce the loops?

 

[TTFrenzy]

so you're saying that returning those loops with backspin takes a lower level of technique than to produce the loops?

I never said that ... please let us dont get too excited over terminology

the question is not valid but I will answer as precisely as I can. First of all one must define technique and difficulty level. But even then some players will find it "easier" to defende because they have a natural tendency or talent for it and some players find it easier to attack.

So by terms of effort and only effort, to chop an incoming ball needs less effort yes, you have no explosive motion in a chop you just absorb the power with your body and paddle. You borrow your opponent's power and spin against him. Now for the technique issue, there is no right or wrong answer, technique to me is the way you execute the stroke and how effective it is

 

[izra]

how you ever tried playing defense TTFrenzy? that young attacker is not a bad player, certainly much better than i am but the level of technique required to beat him by chopping to me is far more impressive.

 

[TTFrenzy]

how you ever tried playing defense TTFrenzy? that young attacker is not a bad player, certainly much better than i am but the level of technique required to beat him by chopping to me is far more impressive.

Yes I have, and it was a whole different game to me. Once again its not only the technique that won the game by the defender, I also said that the attacker was good even with superior overall technique, but he lost it mentally.

So what exactly is your question overall? cause you are constantly changing the questions as if I dont know what I said.

I was just commenting on the techniqune only, do i need to draw it or something? not for the serves not for the mentality not for the tactics. Its my opinion that the attacker has better attacking qualities than the defender qualities.

That of course does not mean that he will win the match, he lost it mentally, made some really bad strokes and stupid choices so he lost.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is dicey to compare looping technique to chopping technique. Both take technique and technical skill. But the techniques are different.

Talking about the looping technique of someone who is chopping and not looping makes no sense. But I guarantee that the looper's chopping technique is not as good as the chopper's chopping technique.

And, for sure, the technique of the chopper, in his chop stroke is pretty impressive. It is not easy to do that. He is adding spin, taking away spin and giving back spin without adding or taking away. That is stuff that takes a high level of skill.

I am entertained right now imagining what our friend unknown_crazy-person_sj would be saying about aspect ratio, speed glue, RoboNastis....LOL.

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

But TTGeorgeFrenzy, why do you think you were the only one who talked about inferior technique. Someone even mentioned inferior surfaces and it wasn't you.

Your comments when you reassessed the play of each player were much more balanced. Even if I think the subject of what people mean by technique may need to be addressed. I think there are a few different definitions floating around out there in this thread for what the word "technique" is being used to mean. And it seems to me that the technique to chop is not being discussed by a few. And it is not easy to skillfully chop a heavy loop: I would say it does take some technique.

Now can we please return to the REAL subject of RoboNastis and which pips out, Penhold World Champion DTop's video was talking about and whether Xu Xin is really planning on switching to banned pips!!!


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Shuki]

Huge post that shuki agrees with just about all points except one.

You say twiddlers aren't ultimately much different but what I was considering with twiddlers are people like seemiller. Where they twiddle to set up their shot, without the twiddling and his grip he would no doubt be a great player still. But he would also lost a lot of what his game is about with his anti.

What I struggle with, with exceptional twiddlers is that I don't know where to hit, as the few I've played are actually waiting to use a specific side and going for the reaction twiddle and seem to refuse to use the "junk" rubber against me once they realize I'm more comfortable against that than their faster rubbers.

Also haven't caught up on this entire thread yet so edit's will be made below this line if there's any more discussion about my post.

______________________


Edit:
After reading more about the arguments in who's more skilled between the players and whos style takes more effort I'm ready to put in my input.

Both take an equal amount of effort and skill. Chopping and attacking are both equal.

There are three parts to a player as I see it, we all have these parts, some more than others in different aspects. These parts are the BRAIN, HEART, And Physical part.

Brain has to do with diagnosing your player and exposing their weaknesses, and realizing when to vary certain spins. The chopper was better at this.
Heart has to do with the emotion side and the quick reads on opponents. The in the moment what you feel part.
Physical Has to do with technique and athletic prowis. Who's putting more physical effort into the shots. This side I believe the looper has the more physical ability.

 

[Shuki]

done, read my edit.

 

[izra]

done, read my edit.

IMO a player that puts in LESS physical effort to achieve the same result is the one with superior technique.

 

[NextLevel]

You say twiddlers aren't ultimately much different but what I was considering with twiddlers are people like seemiller. Where they twiddle to set up their shot, without the twiddling and his grip he would no doubt be a great player still. But he would also lost a lot of what his game is about with his anti.

What I struggle with, with exceptional twiddlers is that I don't know where to hit, as the few I've played are actually waiting to use a specific side and going for the reaction twiddle and seem to refuse to use the "junk" rubber against me once they realize I'm more comfortable against that than their faster rubbers.

Also haven't caught up on this entire thread yet so edit's will be made below this line if there's any more discussion about my post.

______________________


Edit:
After reading more about the arguments in who's more skilled between the players and whos style takes more effort I'm ready to put in my input.

Both take an equal amount of effort and skill. Chopping and attacking are both equal.

There are three parts to a player as I see it, we all have these parts, some more than others in different aspects. These parts are the BRAIN, HEART, And Physical part.

Brain has to do with diagnosing your player and exposing their weaknesses, and realizing when to vary certain spins. The chopper was better at this.
Heart has to do with the emotion side and the quick reads on opponents. The in the moment what you feel part.
Physical Has to do with technique and athletic prowis. Who's putting more physical effort into the shots. This side I believe the looper has the more physical ability.

It's not the twiddling but really your inverted level or short pips spin level. Practicing with twiddlers is an antidote as is the random multiball by your coach. If the twiddler is a better player than you with inverted, the problem is not the twiddler but the player's overall level, especially with inverted. The right way to think of Seemiller Snr. is as a TPB penholder with Anti on the BH. If he can beat you with the inverted side, forget the anti side. The anti side is a change up and not his game.

Twiddlers are not "junk rubber users" per se. Earlier, I pointed out that the reasons people use combination rubbers are different. IT should be obvious to you that when you think of a twiddler, the idea that they are using the combination rubber to cover a weakness is not completely true if true at all.

 

[Baal]

I think we should have a thread just of videos of players going out of their minds.

Tough to beat this one.

 

[Baal]

This.

 

[Baal]

Not sure this would be so easy in our sport.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think we should have a thread just of videos of players going out of their minds.

Tough to beat this one.

Man, I've gotta find some video footage of Tahl Leibovitz's antics. He makes this stuff look like calm guys having a walk in the park.

I guess, with some of Tahl's antics though, you have to hear what he is saying too as he is throwing his racket or mooning his opponent. LOL.


Sent from Deep Space by Abacus

 

[Shuki]

IMO a player that puts in LESS physical effort to achieve the same result is the one with superior technique.

Interesting, I think I disagree. If we're taking away brain and heart, and then have two players play (of equal level but different styles), you couldn't see a player putting more effort in winning a game but worse technique winning the game?

The two players have reached the same level but one has a blocking game and the other has a Chinese-style looping game. The player putting forth more physical energy would clearly be the chinese-style looper. But does this make the loopers technique worse? Maybe one style just has more favorable matchups and thats why they can put forth less effort to achieve the same level.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

The guy looping gets caught with his feet in the wrong place. This is technique. The guy looping misreads the spin and misses. This is technique.

Good technique has to do with efficiency. So often, better technique produces the same power with less effort. Then when that player adds a little more effort, with good mechanics, his shot has more power in it. In table tennis, power could translate as spin or speed or the combination of the two.

To me, the chopper's feet look better. He is in a good position for the ball more often in spite of him playing defense against balls that are almost always faster than his shots. He is 60. He is about 40 years older than the looper and yet he is the one whose feet are in good position. And he is getting that position against faster shots and his opponent is not getting that position against slower shots.

His chop technique is very good. The looper's loop, if he did not have to move is not bad, but once he has to move, he is not adjusting that well to the balls coming at him. And they are not coming at him that fast.

I have a feeling the chopper is a higher level player than the looper. And to me, his technique looks better than the looper's technique.

However, I don't think effort has much to do with technique anyway. But good mechanics and good technique may allow a player to use more effort and waste less of that effort. But good technique has to do with efficiency. Efficiency means that the power you use is translated into the ball and is not wasted effort.

Sometimes FZD hits these crazy over the table BH shots that take very little effort but shoot off his racket like a rocket. That is not much effort, very powerful shot, excellent technique.

 

[Shuki]

What are we describing as effort? physical energy exerted? because when I use more effort I don't use more physical energy, I just focus harder.

 

[DoctorPaco]

I think we should have a thread just of videos of players going out of their minds.

Tough to beat this one.

Then why not start a different thread of players going batsh*t instead of hijacking this one?
Don't get me wrong, the clips are great. But it would be better and get more views if you started a new thread.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Then why not start a different thread of players going batsh*t instead of hijacking this one?
Don't get me wrong, the clips are great. But it would be better and get more views if you started a new thread.

Wait, isn't the whole discussion in this thread a hijacking? LOL. Fun thread though.

What are we describing as effort? physical energy exerted? because when I use more effort I don't use more physical energy, I just focus harder.

And Shuki, you are saying the guy whose feet are in the wrong place, who keeps misreading the spin on the ball, who keeps messing up, is the guy who is exerting less physical energy but focusing harder and you are describing THAT, as MORE EFFORT???? And that is BETTER TECHNIQUE???? Sorry, but, I think I forgot to step into the backwards universe. Did I miss something here?