Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

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Today I lost more than I won; got totally blocked off the table by one of the better players here. He wiped the floor with just about everyone. It was a combination of us playing bad and him playing very well. At least he couldn't block my opening loops. :rolleyes:


Found out some things which allow me to generate quite a bit more spin, but who knows how long they will take to really transfer into my game.

I can sometimes snap my elbow, twist my hips or push off my legs with much better timing and make much more spin, but I can't do them all right at the same time! :p

At least one consistent thing I can do to raise my quality is to push with my legs more when doing backhands: it's fairly reliable in increasing my quality. Just need the timing to really tap into all that potential.

I guess this is what Carl was talking about when he was talking about "pop".

Where is the video footage?

5:40

Der, you're playing against a solid 2000+ player who just beat a 2200 some time ago.

Did you NOT expect that to happen? :p

I seem to remember you saying something about keeping quiet till you posted footage.

I also noticed 5 min after you said that you were telling David Song he must not have enough deception in his serves. So where is the footage of your play?

Oh, here it is:




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Hello TTD CCers!

What a great and fun TT weekend!

Long AAR (After Action Report) follows... will give you the FRAT (Frag Reading All That version first):

FRAT version

Sat = Played Der_Echte 1 match - lost 3-0; played a match with 42andbackpains and luckily won 3-2... 42&bp should beat me easily

Sun = served/drilled with Carl for ~15 mins; played with Der_Echte 1 match - lost 3-0; played with NextLevel ... also coached by both Der and NL

Had a great time this past Saturday and Sunday!

UNABRIDGED VERSION

Saturday, Oct 1, 2016

Der_Echte and the rest of the Goon Squad’s NYC Mission started ~4pm at the Korean TT club in Flushing. I could not join them until much later due to and weekend/family duties. Also, my wife celebrated her aunt’s birthday with a family dinner.

Got to the restaurant at 6:30 pm. 30 mins wait for a table. Took my wife and her aunt another 30 mins to decide what they wanted to eat. Took another 30 mins for the first dish to be served. I’m sitting there staring at my watch LOL Finished cake and left. 3 hrs. Lots of tension and anticipation in me due to the whole day.

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I got to the Korean TT club at ~10:30pm. The Squad were pretty much done for the day. Had my gear and because of the time, was ready just to hang out and chat and not play. Der said he still had many sets left in him.

We warmed up for 5 mins or so, my Chuck Knoblauch syndrome continued. Chuck was the 1990’s baseball 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] baseman who towards the end of his career, couldn’t throw to 1[SUP]st[/SUP] base, which is one of the primary throws/skills a 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] baseman needs to execute. Some mental block. Using my Avalox P700, I’m missing the table on basic shots like FH during warmup. It has been 2 weeks like this. Prior to my malaise, I’ve been hitting/playing with the Avalox for ~4 months and was used to it as it became my primary blade. My solution was to warmup with my backup racket, an off the shelf 1980’s DHS racket, which I slapped on 2 old rubbers. It is way heavier than I am used to, as I’m an oldschool penholder and play with single side only. But my strokes were landing properly. Switched back to the Avalox for a few more shots and the match begins.

I didn’t expect to win against Der-Echte, a 2000-level player, but was going to give him my all. Saw his fast Rambo loops in a previous Goon Squad mission in doubles as well as face his high-toss serves, so I had some idea what I would be going up against.

By Der’s estimates, I won 80% of my serves and he won 90% of his serves. Lost 3 straight, mostly at 7 or 8 if memory serves. Have video of the match, will probably post, just didn’t have time to edit yet. All I remember was me eating all his serves. Couldn’t read them. After the match, Der confided to me that all he did was serve downspin and then topspin the whole match ... 1-2 .. same serves, same sequence! Man, I suck at reading serves, but also suck at discerning any patterns. LOL

What I didn’t expect was how underrated Der’s trash-talking game is! He is at least 2500! I tried not to let it get to me, generally don’t let it get to me, but the seed was planted firmly with the trash talking. What cemented it was my helplessness and free points he got off my botched attempts at return of serves.

I had a few decent rally winners, but for the most part, match was un-highlight worthy IIRC. Will review the video to see. Service returns continue to be a huge Achilles Heel for me! Thanked Der for the match as well showing me what I need to work on via match.

Played my friend 42andbackpains for a set. It was the first time in 30 yrs since he played with both sides smooth rubber. For the past 2 yrs, he has been using short pips on his BH. Eked out a win 3-2 over him, but I wasn’t executing my game/style the way I wanted to and felt he should’ve won. With his lessons with a professional coach, truly expect him to be a formidable player very soon. Feel he should beat me easily as well as our mutual old 1980's TT crew. If not for his backpains etc ... if he's healthy, WATCH OUT!

Everyone called it a night and we went to a restaurant for a midnight dinner. I was not hungry and just sat there soaking in TT discussions from players higher level than me. In attendance, Carl, PPHolic, Der and 42&bp. Awesome night!

An aside: it’s one thing to read on the forums that someone speaks a foreign language, it’s another to see it in action. Der was FLUENT in Korean and it was awesome listen to him speak with the club owner!

Sunday, Oct 2, 2016

I was resigned to the fact I could not join Der and Crew this day at the New York Indoor Sports Club (42andbackpains’ club). We had enolled our son in a prep course for a special high school admissions test. I’m the chauffeur 99% of the time during the weekends. Dropped him off at school 9am. Went with my wife to pick him up at 3pm. ~3:30pm, as I got off the highway, get a text from Carl asking how many sheets of rubber was needed on Der’s Nexy Amazon PH blade for me to test out. Had my son reply as I was driving. But Carl’s timely text message had my wife ask who it was. I explained it was my TT friends asking me a question. I reminded her that it was the same friends as yesterday and they came out of town. She said do you really want to go play? I explained that yes I generally would like to play, but it’s extra special as they were from out of town. She said ok go but asked what time I would be back. I said I think they will end it at 6pm. I got home ~8:30pm. Doghouse! LOL at me.

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Got to the club ~4:30pm. I started off serving to Carl for maybe 15 mins my pendulum fast side-top serve to his BH. He has trouble with this serve and I wanted to help him out. He returned most of them, some with the BH pick/flick, some with his BH loop. He didn’t ‘eat’ as many. Truly hope that helped out his game!

NextLevel arrived and he worked with Carl a bit. Carl had to leave and we took a group pic. Reposting Carl's pic from Der_Echte in NYC thread:

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I looked around and recognized a few members from my club! Hardcore TT fanatics - members of 2 clubs! Don’t recall if I mentioned my club is a NYC Dept of Parks recreation center. We share the space with stationary bikes, Olympic lifting, and weightlifting machines. So perhaps not the most ideal of playing conditions but members only pay 100 dollars a year and Seniors pay $25 a yr! In NYC, you cannot beat 100 a year membership fee. Other downsides are generally jam-packed, long wait for a table sometimes, generally due to overcrowding – no real chance just to drill on a table, and many people walking to and from to the weight rooms.

Der drove Carl to the train station. I was waiting for a chance to play NextLevel, and loosely practicing serves. A club member asked to play and I obliged. I was testing out Der’s Nexy Amazon PH blade with MX-P rubber. I have never used both the blade and the rubber. Perhaps a bad test as both blade and rubber were new for me and I didn’t have a ‘control’ variable.

I stood on the FH side and BH blocked my partner’s loops for maybe 30 mins. Then started a match. Lost 2 straight, mostly me adjusting to the blade/rubber. Surprisingly, I adjusted pretty fast to the combo. I expected a longer learning curve. I then proceeded to serve my version of a pendulum sidetop serve. Partner ate many serves or were on the receiving end of my smashes from his popped up returns. Was able to squeak by taking the match winning 3 straight. I didn't call him out for his illegal serves. For parts of the match, I was working on what Der advised/worked with me on: slow topspin loop to counter heavy downspin, get reset in ready stance and attack the usual block which generally would be high. I punched some, loop drived successfully very few and smashed some.

I went to another table as a woman asked me to hit with her. I’ve hit with her at my club and pleasantly surprised to see her at NYISC. As I hit with her, I see Der playing the gentleman I just finished with and to Der’s credit and title of Table Tennis Ambassador, he gave a few pointers to the gentleman!

Der comes to my table and I politely explained to my partner, despite language barrier, I wanted to play Der as he was from out of town… I think she understood.

IIRC, all I did was serve side down the whole match to Der and he would push it back to my FH and I topspin looped it and ready for 5[SUP]th[/SUP] ball attack via smash, punch or loop drive. Still have problems with serve receive. Lost 3 straight, but it was more drilling but in an actual match. Der commented that I made a lot of the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] ball slow topspin loops, more than he has seen me before he coached me. An aside, recently JeffM posted a match vid in which he beat his opponent and NextLevel commented pretty much that the same combo of slow topspin loop and get ready to attack the blocked loop should be one of JeffM’s staples.

Played NextLevel next. Lost pretty easily, I think all at 5 or less. I was not thinking too clearly in serve placement ... served mostly long and fast to NL’s BH which he adroitly returned. Didn't remember to serve short to FH. Der on the side reminded me to try to serve sidedown and go for slow topspin loop. Many of my serves were too long and NL attacked them all not affording me a chance to 3rd ball slow topspin loop.

Unedited video courtesy of NL's channel:



4:19-4:24 – after nailing my 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] ball punch down the line, I missed my 5[SUP]th[/SUP] ball smash LOL at my inconsistency

4:37-4:49 – most memorable point for me, not because I actually returned NL’s serve, not because I saw the net ball, waited and successfully returned nor because I smashed the 6[SUP]th[/SUP] ball for a winner, BUT because of Der’s reaction to the point … he posted a comment about our Saturday match, that some of my smashes were moments to flex my bicep and here he was, right after my smash he got up and did just that… had me cracking up!

~12:16 – 32:58 NL coaching me

I got a text from my daughter informing me my wife is upset with me as I told her I believed i would finish at 6pm. Got home at 8:30 pm. Apologized to both NL and Der but I had to leave or else ... lol

Thanked them both for their gracious sharing of time, experience and playing with me!

p.s. the 2 things I need to remember of the many things I've learned this past weekend is:

1) Serve downspin, get a push to my FH, loop slow topspin, get reset and prepared for 5th ball attack

2) wrist motion - how to serve a real pendulum serve (i have a pendulum serve with wasted motion); serve receive; and loop

Sincerest gratitude to Carl, PingPongHolic, and 42andbackpains. And again my deepest gratitude to Der_Echte and NextLevel for working with me!
 
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Carl, the video is indeed there. You're free to assume that's my level. I don't need an up to date video to post what I did today, or to post my thoughts on a video. I don't need a video at all to post this, in fact. All I don't want to do is compare myself to others without anything to back up my bullshit.

My comment at Song was general, although my wording was shit so it looks like I was talking about him. Isn't he 2200 or some? Of course his serves are well disguised!

If you didn't notice, I'm not criticizing Der. He's obviously tired in the video: he even says it himself. His level is apparent, tired or not. I just enjoyed the video. I'd actually much rather watch these than watch pro games: these are very informative. Thanks for posting them, NL!
 
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1) Serve downspin, get a push to my FH, loop slow topspin, get reset and prepared for 5th ball attack

2) wrist motion - how to serve a real pendulum serve (i have a pendulum serve with wasted motion); serve receive; and loop

Sincerest gratitude to Carl, PingPongHolic, and 42andbackpains. And again my deepest gratitude to Der_Echte and NextLevel for working with me!

Not at all man. If you learn to use the wrist, it makes life much easier. You are penholder too so that is your advantage. The wrist makes it generate spin, challenge spin, serve short etc. That's why you can't serve short with deception right now - your arm motion is large so it gives the whole game away, so to speak - you have to slow it down to serve short and the size of the motion lets you know how much spin is on the ball. IF you noticed, when you first used your wrist, you actually struggled to serve long - that is how life should be.
 
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Then I tricked him into playing a bit longer and he fell for it. Then I managed to attack and block down his tired butt. Wasn't easy and I paid (threatened) the kids in the background to get louder so they could take him off his game.

The best part of this is the text message exchange from 1am Saturday night:

NextLevel: "What time will you be done?"

Carl: "William said that he is going to play till you can't play any more."

[Stage direction: William actually told me to tell NextLevel: "I'll play till his knees don't work anymore!" Or if Der wants to, he can fill in the less PC wording he used for the same basic message. I can't remember the exact wording but it was more funny and outrageous.]

NextLevel: "Lol. That shouldn't be hard with my bum knees." "Will oblige."

Der_Echte: [from Carl's SpyPhone] "Man... William gunna wear that tail out so bad. Advise to bring lots of Ben Gay ointment."

Carl: "If you didn't get it. That was William who said that. [emoji2]"

NextLevel: "I know. I just have to figure out how to return those high toss serves so I don't run around too much." "Then I might have a chance." "If not I will bring in the Ben Gay and the massage therapist."


Sent from the Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
 
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Not at all man. If you learn to use the wrist, it makes life much easier. You are penholder too so that is your advantage. The wrist makes it generate spin, challenge spin, serve short etc. That's why you can't serve short with deception right now - your arm motion is large so it gives the whole game away, so to speak - you have to slow it down to serve short and the size of the motion lets you know how much spin is on the ball. IF you noticed, when you first used your wrist, you actually struggled to serve long - that is how life should be.

Ah sorry for my misunderstanding, will work on that. ~2 months ago, a friend was showing me the same thing you taught me, the small wrist motion, but I didn't 'get it' then, but think i'm seeing the light after your 'check mark' and "8" comments.

THANK YOU SIR!!
 
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[Stage direction: William actually told me to tell NextLevel: "I'll play till his knees don't work anymore!"]

PPholic, 42&bp and I laughed hard at William's comment and when he said to send verbatim to NL and Carl edited it somewhat

LOLOL
 
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Played NextLevel next. Lost pretty easily, I think all at 5 or less. I was not thinking too clearly in serve placement ... served mostly long and fast to NL’s BH which he adroitly returned.

When I first introduced NextLevel and SmashFan and got them to play a match, I said to SmashFan: "This is NextLevel, beware of his BH." Then I turned to NextLevel and said: "This is SmashFan, beware of his BH!" Hahahaha.

You don't keep serving to NextLevel, Der_Echte or SmashFan's BH unless you want to be picking the ball up off the floor. Hahaha.



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5:40


Der, you're playing against a solid 2000+ player who just beat a 2200 some time ago.

Did you NOT expect that to happen? :p

11:53

Hah, my reaction was pretty much the same as Der's.

Everything was going so well.

You got your deal with Carl, so what happens in teh wrestling match between you and Carl... you are on your own. And Carl will tear you a new one in that kinda fight, or any kinda fight, even if Carl is 5 ft 6 and 150ish. You haven't looked at hiz arms or how he walks, he knows about leverage, he would have you crying uncle in less than a minute, only 'cause he would be bored.

Having said that, I will address the merits of your post.

Yes Virginia, I am facing a solid TOURNEY battle proven WARRIOR who is truly 2000 in playing level. If BOTH of us were fresh, either one of us could whup up on the other, could go either way based on our courage and our fortunes. The match from a year ago in NYISC is more close to where we are (or at least were, but easily relative to each other - in true playing level)

I was not NOT match ready by the time NL asked to play (and kindly record the action for history and GLORY) I was already several hours spent past the limit of anything you could call performance. Yet, I still sucked it up and fought on. NL wasn't his top condition either, but he didn't have quite all the battery drain I had, and he had a short drive.

Yet, I won the first 2 or 3 matches we played and if you look at the playlist for them and watch, you would see a very energetic Der_Echte, but I was already gone beyond any acceptable level of performance for me.

Still, I am game to suck it up and drive on past the breaking point, I always say I can worry about being tired tomorrow. I was already at the point, but I fought (so did NL) and managed to perform well enough to avoid losing. NL says I crushed him, I say it felt more like me escaping through some huge flames to avoid getting burned to a crisp in our first few matches I won (these are on NL's playlist, but he fast forwarded to the last match.)

When I went to my wide FH and decided I had to stop quick and from a halt, broad jump over a barrier (to avoid still making a play but crashing through (and damaging $100 worth of barriers) it was over. No one can comprehend how tired i was and how much it took out of me to do that from a stop on bad knees and be 100kg.

I was already in my mind ready to stop at one game and be ready to hit the road for a long 4-5 hr drive. NL challenged my courage and asked in hiz own way to continue, he drove all the way up there to face me, so i kept playing, even if it was clearly teh wrong thing (physically) for me to do. I do NOT back down from a challenge, I was ready to hang it up hours before NL challenged me, but I was not gunna turn NL down. Even after 5 matches NL was still trying to do more. It was well past time and I reckoned NL I gave NL enough action vs me to make it worth coming out.

So uncharacteristically, I make my main point the last one.

Archo, you were not there and saw what happened all day(s) and right before the match, you opened mouth and jammed your foot in there, it might not come out for weeks. Don't sweat it though, I am a pro at opening mouth and inserting my foot, but i jam it in deeper.
 
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HAHA haha triple haha, I actually DID say those things (and meant them even if I spoke in flowery language), but that was for if NL showed up earlier. I was already done like a dog's dinner by the time we got into action. I still backed up what I said though, even if I was physically beyond any level to reliably do so. There is something about when i show up at NYC that allows me to go 10x beyond what I would normally be able to do. I always step it up huge every time I make it to NYC. It is NYC or friends or the forum or all of it. NL is exactly this fighting spirit as well.

Simply a time perspective.

Anyone knowing NL should know he will fight on well past the breaking point (and not show it)

Anyone questioning NL's courage and determination will have a long day in a fight vs him (actually a short and brutal one)
 
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I did one drill with Der_Echte on Sunday where I served and whatever I did, he ripped the hell out of the ball and ran me all over the place. Hehe.


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Haha, I remember that part, I must have gotten bored with pushing short or soft flipping and playing a rally.

Don't know what got into me. I just suddenly decided to try rip crush kill BH for 6-10 balls in a row. I guess I wanted to see if I could still do it.

It wasn't like Carl's serves were high, they were a decent standard, they didn't bounce but a cm over the net. I took some of those 5 -8 cm below the net
 
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Archo, that clip really shines. Excellent find.
I'm a big fan of the infamous basement pong chop driving. The bootleg reverse pendulum from the middle is a great way to start the rally, too.

There also appears to be insane amounts of spin, because I swear that most of those shots should have gone out or netted. I guess the second long dwell time has something to do with it.

We are truly not worthy.
 
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FYI: for information on both sides of the battleground:

On Saturday Der drove up from DC and got to NYC bright and early. On Saturday night after a 1am dinner in Flushing Der and I drove PPH home because the train from Flushing to his home at that time of night would have taken 2-3 hours based on late night service. What that meant was we got to Grandma's house at 3am and I had to wake up for work at 7am which meant....well....so did Der. So playing till midnight on Saturday after the 4 hour drive from DC and then 3am-7am for sleep....well, I think the only thing holding Der's eyelids open was the quadruple shot cappuccino I got him after I was done working as we drove out to College Point NYISC.

BTW: I tried to drag his azz to my last class of the day which is a group class and an advanced level class. He laughed and told me he couldn't afford to pay the lawsuit he would face after he lost his balance and fell on the stick thin dancer girl who would be next to him and crushed her into pancake shape with all 220lbs of his bang impact. Hahaha.

And for NextLevel, he said he woke up on the wrong side of the bed Saturday but was a trooper and made it out to the mission Sunday in spite of that.

It sure would have been funny to see Der_Echte taking a yoga class. But, I guess I was okay with being the only guy in a room filled with 27 beautiful ladies. A smaller class for sure. But world class talent without a doubt. Upper West Side keeps it real. Only place with more talent is Union Square.


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Hello TTD CCers!

What a great and fun TT weekend!


Sincerest gratitude to Carl, PingPongHolic, and 42andbackpains. And again my deepest gratitude to Der_Echte and NextLevel for working with me!

Sounds like a superb weekend OSP!
Nice point at 4:37!

How much do I wish I can join you guys haha.

Hope your wife is ok with you afterwards!
TT always take longer than expected as it is so fun! (when you are not drained out already)
 
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