Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[UpSideDownCarl]

The short serve thing, yeah, what NextLevel said.

Also, if a serve is too short, for some opponents it not only makes it easier to drop short or push long, it makes it easier to clear the net on a flip. And the short serves that bounce close to the net on your side have to be slow. If you can serve short backspin that is also fast, it is kind of useful because you are giving the opponent less time to read spin and placement and respond.


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

i agree with you. For a long time, i tried to serve as short as possible. Only recently i have tried to serve half long, and I believe that keeping the serve low and a bit spinny is more important than keeping it short (except as you say for players 2 or 3 levels above at least...). I also have quite a good block on both sides, so its not really bad for me if the other guy attacks first, if he doesn't get a really strong shot + i'm committed to play the next shot, even if its a block.

What puts me in more trouble is putting too much effort in serving, and not be in a good position to play the 3rd ball. Thats where my main weakness is at the moment i believe.

Strangely, one of my patterns which works quite well is serving short with topspin to the BH. I do that from the middle of the table or from my FH side. Its too tempting, and many players will go for a diagonal attack into my BH but thats exactly where i'm waiting to play a block, most often down the line, but also back to the BH or outside FH. For those who try on my FH, thats usually my strong shot... Also, because i mix also a lot the serve with BH backspin (short or long), i get also here and there a free point or an easy high flying ball.

I lost to a player today, I feel i should have served a bit more often with this short topspin BH serve to his BH, especially at the end of sets. he had less problems with the backspin one when i think of it

 

[SchemeSC]

Agreed with all the comments above on short serving. The first serve in this video is what I consider to be my ideal backspin serve: low as it crosses the net, first bounce on opponent's side is relatively close to the net, fast, double bounces (but does not triple bounce), and still spinny enough to spin back into my jacket once it hits the floor.

I've been having good success with this kind of serve against my 1950ish level practice partner/coach. He has outstanding touch, but even he is having some problems dropping these balls back short. If he tries to loop them over the table, his shot often clips the net.

The problem is producing that serve on a consistent basis, which I am nowhere close to achieving.

 

[NextLevel]

Agreed with all the comments above on short serving. The first serve in this video is what I consider to be my ideal backspin serve: low as it crosses the net, first bounce on opponent's side is relatively close to the net, fast, double bounces (but does not triple bounce), and still spinny enough to spin back into my jacket once it hits the floor.

I've been having good success with this kind of serve against my 1950ish level practice partner/coach. He has outstanding touch, but even he is having some problems dropping these balls back short. If he tries to loop them over the table, his shot often clips the net.

The problem is producing that serve on a consistent basis, which I am nowhere close to achieving.

Did you see my or Brett's video on the whip pattern?

 

[SchemeSC]

Did you see my or Brett's video on the whip pattern?

Hmm, I don't think so. I've seen the Advanced Mechanics (obviously since I'm in it) and the Optimal Serving Mechanics, and that's about it. I've never seen anything on whip mechanics specifically for the backspin serve. Was it posted within the past 6 months?

 

[SchemeSC]

That's weird. When I originally quoted you, I couldn't see the video. Now it's there.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[NextLevel]

That's weird. When I originally quoted you, I couldn't see the video. Now it's there.

Thanks for sharing!

I added it later. It was after he visited the US. I used to have a mixed bag of serves before I learned this and after I did, I developed one of the heaviest backspin serves in the state.

 

[ttmonster]

Gotta try this today on my partner

I added it later. It was after he visited the US. I used to have a mixed bag of serves before I learned this and after I did, I developed one of the heaviest backspin serves in the state.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

I'm still working on this. (EDIT: video helps tremendously, prior to watching the video, seen NL describe it as a reverse "S" or a figure 8. When he showed me in person, he mentioned the 'checkmark' which helped me visualize it ... well, until the video)

Haven't played in 2 weeks if not more ... shoulder still sore

 

[SchemeSC]

NL's vid is excellent.

Someone posted a video of a guy with the last name Thrasher that had the most incredible backhand, and he did a similar pattern with his wrist to initiate the backswing on his BH loop. I called it a "double whip", but I don't think anyone understood what I meant.

 

[ttmonster]

are you stretching and/or icing and/or getting massage , it won't go on its own you know

I

Haven't played in 2 weeks if not more ... shoulder still sore

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

are you stretching and/or icing and/or getting massage , it won't go on its own you know

no icing ... use 'icy hot' on and off. occasional stretching ... mostly just slow arm circling ... massage it on and off throughout the day/night

just letting it rest ... don't think i need to seek professional help ... it didn't feel sore when i played mostly 1x a week 2-3 hrs, and sometimes even 2x a week... only maybe last 2 months or so did i go to 3x a week 1-3 hrs ... and only noticed the soreness 1 or 2 weeks prior to deciding to take time off

plus i had so many different parts of my game i was working on concurrently that i had so many mental issues ... so using the time off to rest both mind and body... will see how i feel next week, or perhaps just start off in the new year easing back into it.

Thank you ttmonster!

 

[NextLevel]

NL's vid is excellent.

Someone posted a video of a guy with the last name Thrasher that had the most incredible backhand, and he did a similar pattern with his wrist to initiate the backswing on his BH loop. I called it a "double whip", but I don't think anyone understood what I meant.

But that's the thing - it's just a whip. If you crack a whip, this is the pattern you make. I have a better idea why you are calling it double but you don't crack a whip on the backswing.

 

[ttmonster]

It could vary from person to person, but one of the people I know who had great success as an adult to only work on one thing at a time , thought of passing it along in case it helps ..

no icing ... use 'icy hot' on and off. occasional stretching ... mostly just slow arm circling ... massage it on and off throughout the day/night

just letting it rest ... don't think i need to seek professional help ... it didn't feel sore when i played mostly 1x a week 2-3 hrs, and sometimes even 2x a week... only maybe last 2 months or so did i go to 3x a week 1-3 hrs ... and only noticed the soreness 1 or 2 weeks prior to deciding to take time off

plus i had so many different parts of my game i was working on concurrently that i had so many mental issues ... so using the time off to rest both mind and body... will see how i feel next week, or perhaps just start off in the new year easing back into it.

Thank you ttmonster!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

But that's the thing - it's just a whip. If you crack a whip, this is the pattern you make. I have a better idea why you are calling it double but you don't crack a whip on the backswing.

i used to train snapping a bandana (for different reasons) and going to start up again, as well as using my racket

 

[ttmonster]

the principle seems same like making a wrist spin in cricket , intuitively it seems like the only challenge is to control the touch , isn't it ? Thats why so many repetitions would be needed to master it ....

But that's the thing - it's just a whip. If you crack a whip, this is the pattern you make. I have a better idea why you are calling it double but you don't crack a whip on the backswing.

 

[ttmonster]

Had to do a double take on this, I read "train snapping a banana" and I was wondering what would be the probably reason .. as OSP would say .. LOL at me !

i used to train snapping a bandana (for different reasons) and going to start up again, as well as using my racket

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

It could vary from person to person, but one of the people I know who had great success as an adult to only work on one thing at a time , thought of passing it along in case it helps ..

Xie xie again ttmonster!

Yeah, i know, i'm an idiot, working on too many things at once... should focus on one thing at a time. However, some of it is related ... as i generally don't have a chance to have a table for dedicated training ... during matchplay, i work on my short pendulum serve and then work on my 3rd ball loop (which for me at times involves: either decision to pivot or footwork to FH side, and then proper loop mechanics) ... you get the idea.

at home, bombarded by family duties, i don't get to do that much while at home.

 

[SchemeSC]

But that's the thing - it's just a whip. If you crack a whip, this is the pattern you make. I have a better idea why you are calling it double but you don't crack a whip on the backswing.

You are 100% correct. It is all one motion and the whip only "cracks" once, so a double whip is not the best term to use.

I guess I call it a double whip because the wrist moves in a "forwards - backwards- forwards- backwards" pattern. In my mind, I visualize that initial forwards movement of the wrist that you are demonstrating as a mini-whip in itself that gets the primary whip started. But as you mentioned, that is not technically true.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

had to do a double take on this, i read "train snapping a banana" and i was wondering what would be the probably reason .. As osp would say .. Lol at me !

lololol!!!