Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[OldschoolPenholder]

Carl,

When chatting with Thomas last night, he mentioned "Wally" as a coach at SPIN. Do you know him? Back in the 1980's, he was a 2000-2200 oldschool PH pips attacker. A few members at Lost Battalion mentioned through the years Wally showed up, but past few years, he hasn't.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Wally is Wally Green? Right?

Wally is awesome. At some point Wally started playing with a cell phone and a little racket for the delusional characters who think they can play but can't. There is something about the finality of losing to someone who is playing against you with a cell phone that leaves no doubt that you aren't as good as you thought and that the guy who beat you is better than you thought possible.

I've seen it happen many times where someone wanted to play a good player and Wally pulled out his cell phone and made it clear that the person was not cell phone worthy.

I am not so sure he is really interested in coaching. But he is the table tennis rapper for sure.

Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Wally is Wally Green? Right?

Cool vid!

No, Wally is chinese, an oldschool PH pips attacker. Not sure if he is even at SPIN as a coach, but that was what Thomas said.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I have no SH 'game', no serves, my mind is still fixated and abides on FH only or BH only - am not fluid to flow/switch between the 2

Just for the heck of it, this Sunday, will play a match SH and may post video.

LOL at me ... THANK YOU ttmonster.

Interesting to hear the idea that switching from penhold to shakehand could possibly happen without any loss in level or that that would even be ideal.

If you switch your level will undoubtedly drop. But in learning shakehand, you may end up being the old dog who does learn new tricks. And as you learn a few new tricks and adapt a few old ones to a new grip, you may ultimately end up reaching a higher level than previously. Even if you ultimately take the new tricks from shakehand back to penhold!

[emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Interesting to hear the idea that switching from penhold to shakehand could possibly happen without any loss in level or that that would even be ideal.

If you switch your level will undoubtedly drop. But in learning shakehand, you may end up being the old dog who does learn new tricks. And as you learn a few new tricks and adapt a few old ones to a new grip, you may ultimately end up reaching a higher level than previously. Even if you ultimately take the new tricks from shakehand back to penhold!

[emoji2]


Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


We shall see lol


Thank you also Carl.

 

[ttmonster]

You are right about the serve , but if you use the forehand serving grip for SH and practice switching into regular SH grip immediately after serving , I don't believe it will be that difficult , there will be a learning curve but you don't need any partners for this , you could even do this at home. My point being if you have the beginnings of a PH RPB , SH Backhand is just way more easier and dynamic both technique wise and physically , even if you start by just blocking on that backhand and extending that block to a loop drive it won't be that difficult . Forehand I believe you will find easier to hit with the SH as you start adapting to the change in the angle . The part that I have heard people find difficult is that you PH do a lot of secret stuff with your fingers in the back of the paddle and that component is not there much in SH ...its more of different grip pressure with same or similar grips , but if you pinch the rubbers as a grip it should come over time on its own with out being too conscious of what you have to do to adapt to different balls. Also, when you build your SH Forehand you should deliberately build in the Forearm snap , one older gentleman in his 70s is trying to make this switch because he does not have RPB , the only thing I could tell from his new form is that he is still trying to use purely shoulder on all his forehands and backhands and there is no rotation around the elbow and hence has to go back from the table and take balls later ... I am not saying you will have similar issues but just sharing similar experiences / observations if it helps ...

... IDK just wrote a ton of junk that flew through the cuckoo's nest ... LOL at me OSPH

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”


― Sun Tzu, The Art of War


we shall see lol

Thank you also Carl.

 

[Flatstyk]

I don't know, TTMonster, but when you say " Forehand I believe you will find easier to hit with the SH as you start adapting to the change in the angle " I have to believe you don't or haven't really played penhold! As a penholder, it is my forehand I hold most dear and my better opponents fear most. Just last night my regular practice partner commented that he was going to have to learn to avoid my forehand altogether...and I am thinking, "good luck!" Yes, I understand about penhold having to overcome the shoulder in basic strokes and feel it was the biggest mountain I have climbed in the sport. But in the last couple of years I have been paying close attention to the discussion of whip mechanics as presented by Brett Clarke and noted often by NextLevel...and my forehand is transformed. Loving it!! Against players whose over-all game is a level or more above me, my forehand (when I feel I am catching a loop drive solid but fast) has been described as a "smash" in terms of speed. To me it feels like just a little twist of the hips and a crack of the whip. Thanks to BC and NL for that... It sure makes it fun. And penhold grip makes it so easy to re-direct with disguise. I encourage OSPH to stay the course.

 

[ttmonster]

You are right, my observations are based on people I play with and have I have seen change from penhold to shakehand .... both of the them made the change because they were finding the PH game interfering with their fitness ... causing injuries and also they wanted a backhand ... I for one has always been a shakehand player who mucks around with penhold for fun once in a while .. but not serious about it ...

You are right about the disguise and the last minute change in angle with the forehand , however I have heard people who have made the change say that they can get more power in their forehand with shakehand grip ...

My intent was to encourage OSPH to try out something different in case it helps him to play more without facing the injury troubles he has been facing off late ...

I don't know, TTMonster, but when you say " Forehand I believe you will find easier to hit with the SH as you start adapting to the change in the angle " I have to believe you don't or haven't really played penhold! As a penholder, it is my forehand I hold most dear and my better opponents fear most. Just last night my regular practice partner commented that he was going to have to learn to avoid my forehand altogether...and I am thinking, "good luck!" Yes, I understand about penhold having to overcome the shoulder in basic strokes and feel it was the biggest mountain I have climbed in the sport. But in the last couple of years I have been paying close attention to the discussion of whip mechanics as presented by Brett Clarke and noted often by NextLevel...and my forehand is transformed. Loving it!! Against players whose over-all game is a level or more above me, my forehand (when I feel I am catching a loop drive solid but fast) has been described as a "smash" in terms of speed. To me it feels like just a little twist of the hips and a crack of the whip. Thanks to BC and NL for that... It sure makes it fun. And penhold grip makes it so easy to re-direct with disguise. I encourage OSPH to stay the course.

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

The part that I have heard people find difficult is that you PH do a lot of secret stuff with your fingers in the back of the paddle and that component is not there much in SH

... LOL at me OSPH

First, I should ask for royalties or something for "LOL at me" ... LOL at me ;-)

2nd, hmmm... i don't consciously think of my fingers behind the back ... i may or may not be doing something ... i curl my fingers and only the side of my middle finger touches the racket ... what i do do (heh heh, OSPH said 'do do') is to manipulate the racket angle/facing with my thumb on blocks/punches

 

[ttmonster]

Haha ... Okay , the reason I brought up "the fingers" was because I have seen penholder like that guy named Vincent , Der_Echte played with , does a lot of insane blocks and subtle changes in spin ... not sure if you play like that ...
just to clarify when I say insane , I have seen him block full on loops to double bounce , and when he changes the spin , most of the time the other guy feels as if he made some technical mistake in shot execution ...

First, I should ask for royalties or something for "LOL at me" ... LOL at me ;-)

2nd, hmmm... i don't consciously think of my fingers behind the back ... i may or may not be doing something ... i curl my fingers and only the side of my middle finger touches the racket ... what i do do (heh heh, OSPH said 'do do') is to manipulate the racket angle/facing with my thumb on blocks/punches

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

Haha ... Okay , the reason I brought up "the fingers" was because I have seen penholder like that guy named Vincent , Der_Echte played with , does a lot of insane blocks and subtle changes in spin ... not sure if you play like that ...
just to clarify when I say insane , I have seen him block full on loops to double bounce , and when he changes the spin , most of the time the other guy feels as if he made some technical mistake in shot execution ...

I don't consciously change spin on my blocks ... I have old man memory ... will rewatch the vid of Der vs Vincent. Suspect Vincent is 3 or 4 levels above me but will check out.

Thank you!

 

[Flatstyk]

Monster, I wasn't trying to contradict you in any way other than to say penhold and strong forehand go well together when technique is decent. Your suggestion that some experimentation might allow more play in light of injury prevention is a very good one.

 

[ttmonster]

There you go ...

not sure if it will help , its just 2 and half minutes and he does play JPen

I don't consciously change spin on my blocks ... I have old man memory ... will rewatch the vid of Der vs Vincent. Suspect Vincent is 3 or 4 levels above me but will check out.

Thank you!

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

As a penholder, it is my forehand I hold most dear and my better opponents fear most. Just last night my regular practice partner commented that he was going to have to learn to avoid my forehand altogether...and I am thinking, "good luck!"

My regular partners know not to intentionally give me nospin or high balls to my FH... i may or may not lose the point due to missing or whatever, but they will be looking at a fast smash back ... of course, the better partners give me sidespin lobs or whatever and sadly i miss at times lol

But in the last couple of years I have been paying close attention to the discussion of whip mechanics as presented by Brett Clarke and noted often by NextLevel...and my forehand is transformed. Loving it!! Against players whose over-all game is a level or more above me, my forehand (when I feel I am catching a loop drive solid but fast) has been described as a "smash" in terms of speed. To me it feels like just a little twist of the hips and a crack of the whip. Thanks to BC and NL for that... It sure makes it fun. And penhold grip makes it so easy to re-direct with disguise.

I have yet to get the hang of whip mechanics in my FH, heck, in my serves too, still working it.

I encourage OSPH to stay the course.

As an oldschool PH, finding the smaller american hinoki cpen is light enough even with 2 inverted rubbers on that i may try the modern PH style. To that end, trying SH to 'get' the RPB.

I don't know if i will ever seriously give up PH, but as i play for self-perfection (health, fitness, etc) and not playing in tournaments, ultimately it doesn't matter if i play PH or SH... however, i derive happiness from playing PH and looking to overcome some challenges presented to me via the oldschool PH style as well as my age/fitness levels.

I'm just changing things up now because I may have 'hit a wall' in my 'unretirement' and especially after a recuperation injury break. Thank you flatstyk!

 

[Flatstyk]

"I have yet to get the hang of whip mechanics in my FH, heck, in my serves too, still working it."

OSPH, the video link here (I hope this works) is of Roger Federer in slow motion. It was shared by Brett Clarke in another forum and it gave me more understanding and motivation to incorporate it in my stroke than any other thing I had seen or read! And we are all works in progress, right? I, too, am working (maybe with slight success, but long ways to go) on getting the whip into some serve sequences.

https://youtu.be/GsHLxNBaakU?t=680

 

[OldschoolPenholder]

https://youtu.be/GsHLxNBaakU?t=680

Thank you again flatstyk!

 

[Der_Echte]

I have no SH 'game', no serves, my mind is still fixated and abides on FH only or BH only - am not fluid to flow/switch between the 2

Just for the heck of it, this Sunday, will play a match SH and may post video.

LOL at me ... THANK YOU ttmonster.

Uh-Oh, a totally new Old-School Goon Squad Meetup in the workx...

 

[Der_Echte]

I have no SH 'game', no serves, my mind is still fixated and abides on FH only or BH only - am not fluid to flow/switch between the 2

Just for the heck of it, this Sunday, will play a match SH and may post video.

LOL at me ... THANK YOU ttmonster.

3-4 levels for starters on hiz BAD day. V is easy 2000 east coast. He is likely 5-6 levels, but who is counting?

I don't consciously change spin on my blocks ... I have old man memory ... will rewatch the vid of Der vs Vincent. Suspect Vincent is 3 or 4 levels above me but will check out.

Thank you!

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Cool vid!

No, Wally is chinese, an oldschool PH pips attacker. Not sure if he is even at SPIN as a coach, but that was what Thomas said.

I could be wrong, but I don't know any Wally at SPiN other than "THE INFAMOUS WALLY GREEN". Perhaps this guy got confused by the fact that there is a Wally at Spin even if it is not the one you meant.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Had a 1:1 session with my coach today. It had been one month since last time as i was on holidays. It was very tough physically for me, i've played a bit since last time, but with a coach, its a much more demanding effort. Plus, we did a lot of multiball, and i was quite out of form..

We worked a lot on my FH, and i finally realized, after 25 years of TT, that when i was putting my right leg behind me to take my backswing, my weight was on the heel, so that my body was kind of falling back. and that explained a lot of things, like losing my balance, losing the tempo, having a vertical swing... it won't fix all my FH problems but will do a lot to help.

Also:
- keep the wrist rather open, and make sure the head of the racket is at 3pm.
- take a full backswing against underspin
- move legs first, swing later. I only rediscovered that recently, when executing FH flicks which for a long time i wasn't able to do. Now i can do it a little bit, and the main reason is that I make sure to step to the ball first, and take the swing only when i've got a good balance. for FH topspin, especially 3rd ball attack, its very important.
- the legs should always keep contact with the ground. if one steps forward during the FH execution, there is a loss of energy. there is a transfer of weight forward, but in the basic stroke, no need for "jump" forward.

Todays session was really tough physically but i hope it will get better in a few weeks, just in time for next tournaments.