In search of the perfect game ...

[TableTennisTom]

Interesting discussion.

Here's my not-fully-developed thoughts...

I think we need to accept that table tennis is never going to be a big stadium spectator sport, like football, rugby, basketball, baseball. Does this matter? Not really. There is a beautiful simplicity to football (soccer). Kick the ball in the goal. Anyone can understand this and get wrapped up in the excitement. The complexity of the use of spin in table tennis will never be fully understood or appreciated by a non-player table tennis. This is party why it will never have the mass appeal of other easier-to-follow sports. We will never be able to fill stadiums on a regular basis to watch table tennis.

Should we dumb the sport down, to make it easier to follow, in the hope we can fill stadiums?

No.

Why?

Because the nature of watching sports is changing and will continue to change with ever-improving video / streaming technology.

Filling a stadium is not the only way to popularise a sport. Table tennis is perfect for the internet streaming age. Table tennis has a huge global following. We may not want to sit for hours in a stadium watching matches, but we do love to follow action online.

I think it absolutely fine to have small, intimate venues, which can still generate a good atmosphere, but really invest in the quality of video coverage. With good quality video, streaming and commentary, table tennis can still reach a mass global audience, attract sponsorship and popularise the sport.

So no need for rule changes to make the sport more 'appealing' to non-players. The focus should be on improving the quality of coverage of existing tournaments and making it accessible to the millions of existing table tennis players and fans.

 

[yoass]

Table tennis players are mostly nerds, so I think getting more hot women into the clubs would help attract more players -- right?

Hm. Toxicity alert… Anyway, these foul creatures of which you speak would surely have us nerds turning tails in doves while screaming in terror.

 

[jawien]

I agree Tom, that tt might have something inherent, that it "will never have the mass appeal of other easier-to-follow sports". I just want to examine the boundaries (following Der's advise ). Also, yes - traditional tv is becoming less and less important, so we have to take it into account too.

But let me elaborate on the diversity of the current tt a little. Der's comment about the surfaces made me think about it. I mean if we want to continue the analogy with Tennis, it becomes clear that current tt is not as much diverse.

Consider Federer and Nadal rivalry. For the last 10-12 years it was always the case , that for the French Open Rafa was the favorite one, while usually during Wimbledon everyone would bet on Roger (well there might have been a year or two when even for Wimbledon Rafa was quite a favorite ... but in general rather not).

In table tennis it would basically mean that for some events we would consider Ma Long to be the favorite one, while for other events i.e. Dima, just based on their styles. Both kinds of events using different tables actually. Sounds strange, isn't it?

@Just to stir the discussion a little more, let me express my thoughts about the famous "banana flip". As much as I appreciate the technical aspect involved and how awesome it looks, I tend to be very reserved about it. When you think about this part of today's game it basically shows, that tt has become even more all attacking game. I mean the attack starts right after the serve and the person who was serving has to play counter right away.
This sounds like a serve and volley game, popular in the past at Wimbledon. They slowed down the surface and this kind of play has diminished actually.

 

[jawien]

THe thread is dying ... so let me be more controversial ; )

What would you say, if I was going to write an open letter to the ittfz ...... In that letter I would propose that the game should be more diverse ... and why shouldn't they have a one World Tour tourney a year with a different conditions. I don't want to be too technical, but lets say I would suggest them a bit higher net at first or a little slower surface ... Let's even say the ittfz would reply to me that they will give it a serious thought ...


As a side note. Isn't it the case that we are a bit reluctant to the change, because of how the changes were introduced to the tt so far? I'm not sure how it was with the speed glue ban, but the poly ball was, in my opinion, introduced not in a very good way. Instead of first making a "good" poly ball and than mandating to play with it, it was quite the opposite way. Now after 2 years (right?) I think the 3S balls are all right.

So why not instead of waiting for somebody to impose the change on us, rather have the ongoing experiment to be held in front of our eyes, so we will know what to expect ... ?

BTW. I watched diagonally filmed German Championships and I must say It made me realized once again how athletic those guys are. Some of the parts of Timo - Patric match I would consider to be my "perfect" game description. Long fast rallies away from the table ...

 

[Baal]

The thread was dying because it deserved to die because nobody likes the changes you were proposing, whether serious or hypothetical. Being intentionally controversial is another name for trolling, basically. Dont like our soort? There is TTex.

 

[NextLevel]

BTW. I watched diagonally filmed German Championships and I must say It made me realized once again how athletic those guys are. Some of the parts of Timo - Patric match I would consider to be my "perfect" game description. Long fast rallies away from the table ...

A American player once said to separate the men and the women's tour and have the men play round the world more often because he felt the product was really special. Take that to ITTF since you are so eager for change.

 

[jawien]

A American player once said to separate the men and the women's tour and have the men play round the world more often because he felt the product was really special. Take that to ITTF since you are so eager for change.

Women and men separate ... I don't know ... it would make even bigger nerds of us than we are now, wouldn't it ... ; ) The beauty of the game would be lost!!! - STRONG objection here.

The letter thing was just rhetorical, have better things to do in life than writing letters to ittfz ... ; ) It was about introducing this diversity to the game ... ?

 

[berndtjgmann]

The thread was dying because it deserved to die because nobody likes the changes you were proposing, whether serious or hypothetical. Being intentionally controversial is another name for trolling, basically. Dont like our soort? There is TTex.

All right. What changes, if any, would you proposes for a sport that in its competitive version is presently played by only a few tens of thousands of players in the United States of America, a nation of approximately 325 million people. and as played professionally is seen by Americans generally once every four years during the Olympic Summer Games? Let them eat cake, or should they find competitive or professional table tennis not to their liking, give them TTX?

Being intentionally controversial another name for trolling? Nonsense, but very well--if this be trolling, make the most of it. What do you think of a training system which takes children at an early age, gives them very little education, permits corporal punishment if the children, male and female, do not or cannot meet what is expected of them, and reserves to itself the right to send them back to from where they came should they become physically or psychologically damaged?

 

[jawien]

Bberndtjgmann ... I was just thinking where were you ... ; )

I appreciate your comment, but please don't refer to topics that do not strictly relate the one I proposed (the second paragraph to be precise : ) ... it will derail the thread.

Thanks, J.

 

[NextLevel]

All right. What changes, if any, would you proposes for a sport that in its competitive version is presently played by only a few tens of thousands of players in the United States of America, a nation of approximately 325 million people. and as played professionally is seen by Americans generally once every four years during the Olympic Summer Games? Let them eat cake, or should they find competitive or professional table tennis not to their liking, give them TTX?

Being intentionally controversial another name for trolling? Nonsense, but very well--if this be trolling, make the most of it. What do you think of a training system which takes children at an early age, gives them very little education, permits corporal punishment if the children, male and female, do not or cannot meet what is expected of them, and reserves to itself the right to send them back to from where they came should they become physically or psychologically damaged?

Er... is the sport school thing a table tennis thing or a Chinese sports investment thing?

 

[rainneverever]

Er... is the sport school thing a table tennis thing or a Chinese sports investment thing?

Was he referring to gymnastics in USA?

 

[NextLevel]

Was he referring to gymnastics in USA?

That was my first thought but knowing him, I realized he was just being him. Even the top kids who try to get into the NBA sometimes hardly go to school to be in school.

 

[berndtjgmann]

I do not know about the present day, but at one time in the recent past it was all three, and not just restricted to table tennis.

 

[NextLevel]

I do not know about the present day, but at one time in the recent past it was all three, and not just restricted to table tennis.

Then why bring it up? Just to troll and derail the thread?

 

[berndtjgmann]

Then why bring it up? Just to troll and derail the thread?

NextLevel:

This thread is entitled The Search for a Perfect Game. A game, any game, is not going to be, and cannot in any fashion be considered to be, even remotely approaching perfection, even if that were an objective of a game, if children who are to be expected to be its future champions of said game are exploited by any country's national association.

This is a legitimate topic for discussion in this thread.

 

[sderyke2002]

I compare Table Tennis to Hockey, not other racket sports. I do this because it is so fast and to see it on TV one misses so much. With hockey they tried the highlighter puck so casual viewers could follow the action, and with Table Tennis there is slow-mo replay (which even I a player appreciate). The highlighted puck never caught on and did not increase viewership.

Now I will purposely be controversial and irreverent to make a point. I am not a hockey fan because it is hard to follow and because it is obviously so very difficult that even the best in the world are pretty awful. I mean they pass the puck back and forth and it only goes to the person they want it to once out of every three or four attempts. I believe the same could be said for Table Tennis, that from the view point of the non-fan the game looks so difficult that even the best in the world rarely get the ball back more than two or three times. Now when slowed down you can appreciate the spin and curves and speed. The same thing could be done for hockey, with slow-mo and lots of commentary explaining why they were doing what they were doing and running into each other without that being cheating, ect. but it probably would not sway the non-fan. But who wants to watch every contest, in Table Tennis or Hockey, twice (once at speed and the other time slowed down)! Why not just watch the highlight reels after the fact?

I am not advocating for hockey or table tennis to be slowed down, because I love the speed and spin and the impossibility of it all. But I do not think I am in the majority and viewership will remain low.

Just my opinion. I also play tournament chess and talk about low viewership!!!!!

 

[jawien]

NextLevel:

This thread is entitled The Search for a Perfect Game. A game, any game, is not going to be, and cannot in any fashion be considered to be, even remotely approaching perfection, even if that were an objective of a game, if children who are to be expected to be its future champions of said game are exploited by any country's national association.

This is a legitimate topic for discussion in this thread.

In the sense you presented above - quite broad I must say - it is a legitimate comment. But it would be even more legitimate for threads about [EDIT] : ) proper training process in sports ...
I wanted to talk more about rules and the game itself. I think you might also have an interesting perspective from this angle too, since we are basically talking philosophy here ...

Thanks for understanding.

 

[phorkyas]

I liked the way T2APAC presented our sport. Seemed like a fresh breeze and I think it also boosted the game of some of the participating pros. But I don't know how that looks from the outside. When we see a game we also, at least partially, read the spin. But you need to be aware that for most spectators table tennis and ping pong (sandpaper bats) just looks a like.

My wife can't be bothered with TT, but at least she admitted that Koki Nowi seemed to be doing some exciting stuff at the table. Somehow the crowd also always loves this high lobbing, but if you are in for fast and long rallies, why not watch the third or second national league? Seriously here for Germany I found some channel (matchball tv on utube) that maybe after your metrics is closer to the perfect game than the short exchanges on the top level.



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[jawien]

Some sports are effortlessly telegenic, but not table tennis. Little white balls pinging back and forth for a few seconds at a time. Spin mostly invisible. Hyper-athletic feats of high-speed hand-eye coordination mostly invisible. [...]

[...]There is a beautiful simplicity to football (soccer). Kick the ball in the goal. Anyone can understand this and get wrapped up in the excitement. The complexity of the use of spin in table tennis will never be fully understood or appreciated by a non-player table tennis. This is party why it will never have the mass appeal of other easier-to-follow sports. [...]

I compare Table Tennis to Hockey [...]
I mean they pass the puck back and forth and it only goes to the person they want it to once out of every three or four attempts. I believe the same could be said for Table Tennis, that from the view point of the non-fan the game looks so difficult that even the best in the world rarely get the ball back more than two or three times.[...]

If I may, I gathered 3 comments I find most significant for me from Tom, Andy and Sderyke2002.


I think Sderyke2002 has a great point when he talks about the randomness of the today's table tennis. The urge to play offensive and a high ratio of unforced errors makes it difficult to watch. Even I, an involved viewer, find it irritating. Like a shooting contest.


The element of "point construction" is hardly visible. It is just serve and attack and if we get lucky then sometimes we will see players engaging into a rally.


Is this randomness must be a part of today's game? Can't we somehow have the "complexity of the use of spin" or "Hyper-athletic feats of high-speed hand-eye coordination" preserved and at the same time see more rallies and more "chess" in the game. This wouldn't dumb the sport down for sure.


Some of the commentators posting here are basically saying "please stop messing with our sport". I can understand it, but guys the sport is messing with itself too and we can not even see it. Can you imagine how the "science" and performance of today's rubbers increased, specially in terms of spin and speed? There is a reason why the "banana flip" was not really possible in the 80ties, 90ties and the beginning of this century. And what is important, we can't really see this development because it happens continuously - like watching a clock. So we agree with it ... but for some reason we do not want to think about changes that would mitigate it ...


I think we would all agree that we want to see more chess in our game, not a shooting contest ... wouldn't we?

@Sorry if I was a little "offensive" in this comment too : ) But I hope you see the point I tried to make.

 

[berndtjgmann]

Very well put. Thanks to the development of table tennis rubbers designed to end a point as quickly as possible, and speed glues then boosting oils enabling players to do just that, table tennis has become a chess match consisting of a pawn to king 4 opening then and too often, so it would appear to the spectator, a checkmate. Points too seldom blossom, but are cut down before they've a chance to flower.

This does not make, in my humble opinion as someone who has played competitive table tennis for 45 years, for a particularly attractive or interesting or even strategic sport, unless you're idea of an attractive and strategic sport might be something along the line of a basketball slam dunk contest.

Moreover, the interplay of attacking and defensive techniques, long gone from top level international play, has left table tennis badly unbalanced, to the detriment of the possibilities implicit in the sport, the virtual disappearance of all-round play, and the potential for appreciation as to how table tennis might (once again) be played by anyone caring to watch its best players play.

In summary, table tennis has become, and presently is, a two-tiered sport, one tier for professional and competitive players who fancy that the game belongs to them, and the other for "hobbyists", "recreation players", call them what you will. And the gulf between them is wide, and cannot begin to be bridged unless a reason can be given for noncompetitive players to learn to play competitive table tennis as they might like to (how?) and appreciate professional table tennis played more as sport and less as an attempt to play Chopin's Minute Waltz in forty-five seconds.