Video Footage Safe Thread

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Very nice Brs! You look so relaxed and lithe on those strokes. You seems to be gunning for control, i.e., putting the ball on the table rather than all out power looping it ( I'm so guilty of this ). Is this also how you play your game, i.e, all around control, out lasting your opponent in topspin-to-topspin rally? Looper personified!

 

[Brs]

Thank you for the kind comment Gozo. Yes, all around control is the style of TT I enjoy playing, and the one that yields best results for me. I don't really have any natural power. That's why I'm very focused on women's TT both as a fan and a model for my own game. In matches I often get sucked into playing 3rd/5th ball all-or-nothing attacks. It's a mental style error that takes my level down a lot.

It's funny to think I look relaxed here. This is really a stressful exercise. And you are correct, I can't use more power or the pace quickly becomes too fast to handle. My coach could obviously win on any ball he chose, but he just reflects my pace back.

All the things we are working on need long rallies to develop -- keeping the bat always above the table, watching coach's bat to anticipate direction of the next ball, moving my feet two times between every shot, holding that close to the table position with good balance, keeping my chest down and forward (FAIL at this so far), turning my waist to play forehands and NOT turning my hips. Now add Lula's elbow snap to the list.

I counted these few minutes and on average I hit eight balls per rally. Adding more spin per Lula's advice will lower that. But when I get the average to 15, then it will be time to make this harder. Either simply upping the pace, or adding a serve to the start. It's unbelievable how much harder adding a simple backspin serve and push receive makes any of these exercises.

 

[Der_Echte]

I think LDM7 gunna break out sum moar vids soon.

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

 

[LDM7]

T0 The Magnificent 11:

Der & I have been working together for the past three months, developing my fundamentals & discovering strengths and area(s) to improve

Attached is 1 of 2 league matches (11:56) I played Monday night

I would appreciate your feedback on area(s) of my game i am competent, confident & comfortable with, as well as what i should be diligently working on ... (2 of 2, second video to follow)

Thank you for helping me improve!

LDM7

 

[LDM7]

Video 2 of 2

League match (3 - 1, 12:56) that I played earlier Monday night

Thank you for giving it a watch & commenting the good, the bad & the ugly!

Sincerely,

LDM7

 

[Der_Echte]

Hi LDM7,

The same things we discussed are going on, a lot of the authorized commenters will be complete and articulate.

You are doing in these league matches a little less of your bad things and some more of your good things and you are getting results at your level now.

I can see some of your opening topspins get popped up more. I can see your serves are more effective than 3 months ago. I can see you are looking to attack more than you did 3 months ago.

Good to see measurable progress in matches. It is difficult to quickly translate improvement in training to improvement in league and sanctioned matched.

You can ask Ali what we discussed at Saturday's big Sacramento CDNF Tourney... it is an important tourney and there is a LOT of pressure... and the pressure only gets increased as you get into semis then finals. We talked and predicted who would manage pressure and were still amazed at how poorly some better players handled pressure and some others did. Managing pressure is a huge mental skill that is hard to address in every day training. You can make many pressure situations in training, but it must be felt and experienced. Some of the players failing under pressure were very experienced tourney players.

 

[Brs]

T0 The Magnificent 11:

Der & I have been working together for the past three months, developing my fundamentals & discovering strengths and area(s) to improve

Attached is 1 of 2 league matches (11:56) I played Monday night

I would appreciate your feedback on area(s) of my game i am competent, confident & comfortable with, as well as what i should be diligently working on ... (2 of 2, second video to follow)

Thank you for helping me improve!

LDM7

Hi LDM7, thanks for posting your videos. I only watched the first one vs IDKHN, so all comments are from that.

I love how you changed up your serves from all backspin to a lot of topspin and no spin. Then when you came back to backspin he put a few in the net.

You are playing backhand against forehand on most of these points which is not to your advantage. You put up a very good fight considering that. Your starting grip is turned to backhand. It shows clearly when you are on the opposite side of the table facing the camera. That must hurt your transition to fh and I don't think it is something you want to make permanent.

Since almost all your receive points start off a backspin serve with a push, you are playing lots of push and block. Which is a legit style but very defensive. I don't know if you want to be a defensive player or what style you are working towards. If you would like to be more active I suggest playing some matches where you serve all topspin or no spin and loop all the receives with your forehand. Serve long, the ball will come back long, play a forehand *on the table*, not a kill shot, and get ready to rally. You may lose every one of these matches badly. It would only be a study to see how you feel taking the initiative at least half the time. Or if you decide to open on some of your opponent's serves, more than half the time.

Most people start with loop vs backspin, but imo that's a little too all-or-nothing. Usually either you miss the open, or your opponent blocks off. Either way there aren't many rallies. Flat or topspin balls are easier to loop safely and also to block. Longer rallies will challenge your balance and movement even more than now.

To me your serves seem to be ahead of the rest of your game. Which is great, serves are the second most important skill after receives. But my advice above is basically all leading towards pulling back some on your serves to force the other parts of your game to catch up. Sooner is better for that, imo.

 

[NextLevel]

HI, LDM7,

Have Der Echte serve you long serves for an hour or two, both good long serves and lousy long serves. Almost all no spin and topspin, both weak and heavy, maybe some light backspin. Your requirement is to play a stroke on all those balls. Not a block, not a stab, not a push, a stroke. IT is always best to use your strokes to return serves, even the serves you don't understand what is on them. Even wiping the ball is better than just stabbing or putting the bat there.

The reason why this is important is that learning to return or adjust to serves is partly about knowing what is on the serve and if you can't play a stroke you know and use the results of the stroke your know to determine what is on the ball, you are throwing away information that can be used to attack the next ball properly.

Standard returns that you can use to estimate the spin on the ball given you know how to adjust them to put the ball on the table are always better than innovative returns, even the ones that get the ball on the table, mostly for your TT improvement. Those innovative returns if practice and consistent can be valuable, but they will not expand your game as quickly as the standard ones because the time you have to spend learning to block or hack a serve properly is much more than the time you have to spend to adapt a forehand topspin or backhand topspin (both which you already use a lot) to return a serve.

I would comment on your grip as well, but that is for another time.

Have fun!

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments as usual.

1. This is a random multi-all drill and unless one trains like a pro, it is not gonna be pretty and nice. I have already expect my outcome not to be picture perfect (pretty ) like those you see of Pro players. I expect it to be awkward, clumsy, but to my surprise, I somehow manage to return more than expected balls to the other side. It is like the flight of the bumblebee, it is not elegant nor pretty, but it still get the job done.

2. Yes, guys, I feel rushed. The BH & FH transition is still giving me trouble. Takkyu, I'll try to be more bouncy on my feet next round. My coach always tell me not to rush, I have plenty of time to hit, especially my FH. Get into position first but alas! My muscle memory is not in sync. I shall try the 1-2 mental counting method recommended by Takkyu next time to establish a rhythm.

3. Lula, noted with your advice, I shall back-up a little from the table, perhaps half a step. Yes, that should give me a little bit more time to get into better position.

4. Brs, my coach did tell me to shorten my stroke so that I can recover faster to my ready position. He did say as I move to meet higher level players, the ball will surely come back to me faster.

5. Lula et al who said I am hitting late in the random multi-ball drill, please take a look at my FH warm-up, This should be my baseline FH where it is to only one side and comes at constant pace. In the video below, Am I still hitting late? I want to know whether this late issue is an inherent problem of my FH or is due to my poor / under-develop BH to FH transition skill. Do let me know.

hi Gozo
I think you are progressing well.
I would like to suggest you try fh warmup from bh corner towards opp bh block.
Once you are comfortable with that try this drill:
blockerfeeder sends ball 1 to bh corner, ball 2 18 inches to right. repeat aiming at min 20 shot rally You execute all fh at steady pace with good balance.
try this drill at your normal distance and also with early timing and smaller stroke off the bounce .
I think you will find a useful subtle difference between the 2 shots. Ball 1 should be more comfortable because the table is not in the way: Ball 2 it becomes very important to get behind the line of the shot with right knee and shoulder correctly placed. If you try too much weight transfer with Ball 2 you will spoil balance on ball1 so to achieve power with ball 2 you have rely on good timing and keeping stance open
good luck

 

[LDM7]

HI, LDM7,

Have Der Echte serve you long serves for an hour or two, both good long serves and lousy long serves. Almost all no spin and topspin, both weak and heavy, maybe some light backspin. Your requirement is to play a stroke on all those balls. Not a block, not a stab, not a push, a stroke. IT is always best to use your strokes to return serves, even the serves you don't understand what is on them. Even wiping the ball is better than just stabbing or putting the bat there.

The reason why this is important is that learning to return or adjust to serves is partly about knowing what is on the serve and if you can't play a stroke you know and use the results of the stroke your know to determine what is on the ball, you are throwing away information that can be used to attack the next ball properly.

Standard returns that you can use to estimate the spin on the ball given you know how to adjust them to put the ball on the table are always better than innovative returns, even the ones that get the ball on the table, mostly for your TT improvement. Those innovative returns if practice and consistent can be valuable, but they will not expand your game as quickly as the standard ones because the time you have to spend learning to block or hack a serve properly is much more than the time you have to spend to adapt a forehand topspin or backhand topspin (both which you already use a lot) to return a serve.

I would comment on your grip as well, but that is for another time.

Have fun!

heLL0 Next Level,

BRS (also) commented on my service return grip (i am focusing on bh topspin service returns, no more pushes)

i am trying to figure out & looking for a grip that is fh bh transition friendly during rallies

this is time appropriate for me

could you please comment?

thank you,

LDM7

 

[LDM7]

Hi LDM7, thanks for posting your videos. I only watched the first one vs IDKHN, so all comments are from that.

I love how you changed up your serves from all backspin to a lot of topspin and no spin. Then when you came back to backspin he put a few in the net.

You are playing backhand against forehand on most of these points which is not to your advantage. You put up a very good fight considering that. Your starting grip is turned to backhand. It shows clearly when you are on the opposite side of the table facing the camera. That must hurt your transition to fh and I don't think it is something you want to make permanent.

Since almost all your receive points start off a backspin serve with a push, you are playing lots of push and block. Which is a legit style but very defensive. I don't know if you want to be a defensive player or what style you are working towards. If you would like to be more active I suggest playing some matches where you serve all topspin or no spin and loop all the receives with your forehand. Serve long, the ball will come back long, play a forehand *on the table*, not a kill shot, and get ready to rally. You may lose every one of these matches badly. It would only be a study to see how you feel taking the initiative at least half the time. Or if you decide to open on some of your opponent's serves, more than half the time.

Most people start with loop vs backspin, but imo that's a little too all-or-nothing. Usually either you miss the open, or your opponent blocks off. Either way there aren't many rallies. Flat or topspin balls are easier to loop safely and also to block. Longer rallies will challenge your balance and movement even more than now.

To me your serves seem to be ahead of the rest of your game. Which is great, serves are the second most important skill after receives. But my advice above is basically all leading towards pulling back some on your serves to force the other parts of your game to catch up. Sooner is better for that, imo.

heLL0 BRS,

Thank you for taking the time to view my video & give opinions

Your comments are fitting, a fresh perspective, forcing me to think & have conversations with myself

* Der Echte has pounded in me on the importance of showing a HEAVY backspin

* I am focusing on everything BH (flick, drives, loop, dead & touch shots) with less pushing (even though during matches, under stress, I resorted back to what’s comfortable & safe)

* I am working on a grip that is fh bh transition friendly during a rally

* I am absolutely working toward an active, 2-wing attacking style, sound shot selection, managing risk (not pissing points away)

* I am working on (mentally & technique) trusting & depending on my BH more (less running around my FH, less fatigue). I want to be able to open with a bh topspin instead of getting into a bh-2-bh push in succession
* I have been studying, thinking & practicing my serves a lot, the ease of training with no partner needed makes it convenient

* I have never spent any length of time, consistently working on service returns. I feel mostly timid, nervous, sometimes confused & basically guessing a lot and I freaking hate it when my side-top returns fly off the table

I hope to re-connect with you again in three months (if not sooner) for accountability & getting your feedback on any improvements in service return, the most important skill in Pinga Ponga!

Thank you for helping me improve,

LDM7

 

[NextLevel]

heLL0 Next Level,

BRS (also) commented on my service return grip (i am focusing on bh topspin service returns, no more pushes)

i am trying to figure out & looking for a grip that is fh bh transition friendly during rallies

this is time appropriate for me

could you please comment?

thank you,

LDM7

There is no easy answer - a lot of it comes together with years of practice and experience as some muscles get stronger and other things become natural. backhand. Elbow position is the key to a lot, even more than the grip. And racket head speed beyond that, The thing about grip is that if you practice any grip to play a shot and you practice transitioning between the situations and use random drills to challenge anticipation and selection of the transitions, you will end up playing well with just about any reasonable grip. All good players make minor modifications to some aspect of how they hold the racket between strokes, some are just more extreme than others and some depend more on some unique strengths.

For me, the main thing I want you to do is learn to hit a proper backhand topspin. Use this as your model:

If you can do that, then you can think about what you need to do to adjust to play that backhand topspin and what you need to do to play a good forehand after you have played a backhand. Grip becomes easier to understand when you have all the main strokes.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@littledragonman7

i've watched only 3mns of your video. you've got already a lot of good advice
I've noticed some good stuff and not so good stuff

the GOOD
- on your service game, long pendulum with side/backspin gave you easy returns. you often managed to pivot and make a quality 3rd ball attack with spin, and able to finish the point with the 5th ball if necessary. thats a nice combo and you should try to get more of the same brushing feeling on all your shots
- FH much better than BH IMO

the less GOOD
I see a lot of all the common mistakes of us amateur players
- you don't move first but reach for the ball, especially on BH side (drive and pushes)
- generally you don't brush enough the ball especially on BH side, i think it would be easier for you to WAIT more for the ball, when its after the top of the bounce. your bat is also too much open on BH side thats why you can't brush the ball.
- You have a good intention, which is to play attacking TT and put pressure by taking the ball early, but you're sacrificing too much of shot quality because your feeling / technique / footwork is not at the level yet. By waiting more, you'll be rushing less, and have more time to execute good shots.

ideas for improving
- like all of us there's plenty of things you can work on to improve, it just depends on your goals, motivation, training time, coach/senior players availability to help. Looking at the video and your posts, it does look like you're training regularly so its more a question of prioritization and methodology.

- i think you can keep working on your technique, both sides, especially BH, and also BH push. watch YT videos. It looks like you haven't found yet the right timing and hitting area (vs your body position) yet thats why there's so much difference between shots.
- the stance is generally good, but you can work more on that, and on footwork to be a bit faster. you seem fit so no reason why you couldn't improve.
- try to be more composed, less rushed, and more aware of the ball, keep track of it when its in your half table, it will help your timing and shot quality. its a huge mental effort to always do it and not just play "naturally".

 

[NextLevel]

I agree a lot with Takkyu, LDM7 has an adult learner game where the arm is always adjusting to the ball position because the footwork isn't putting the body in the right place for the strike zone to give good impact. But we are all there but unless you realize that you need to try to play the same stroke almost every time and use your movement to adjust, it is hard to get there (and learning to fo so is a very long process regardless it only gets slightly better never perfect).

 

[LDM7]

I agree a lot with Takkyu, LDM7 has an adult learner game where the arm is always adjusting to the ball position because the footwork isn't putting the body in the right place for the strike zone to give good impact. But we are all there but unless you realize that you need to try to play the same stroke almost every time and use your movement to adjust, it is hard to get there (and learning to fo so is a very long process regardless it only gets slightly better never perfect).

"and learning to do so is a very long process regardless it only gets slightly better" => Not cooL NL

I want a Cali 1800 BH loop (and flick) yesterday

Your comments on Elbow position is key (even more than grip) and racket head speed + watching Liam's video enlightens me & give me hope

i am trying to digest what Liam says, emulating his elbow position, racket starting angle & location relative to his body, how he lets the ball come to him, yet with a compact whip, generating powerful, spiny topspin

I am ready to Do Work!

Finally please know that i am keenly aware of my footwork needing work & the importance of setting a proper striking zone

yet could it be that i am lazy, or lack of physical conditioning ... innately i feel it is b/c i am not used to moving towards the ball (i get wide-eyed & excited so i reach) and also a bit of i don't know how to properly move

i recon there is a mental component too

i WILL break through by looking to move my feet more, reminding myself to let the ball come & move my feet to establish that beautiful, ideal striking zone

Thank you for helping me improve to the Next Level ... haha 😎

LDM7

 

[Der_Echte]

These are all things that do not improve instantly, takes awareness, focused reps, and a lot of time. It gets better incrementally.

 

[Der_Echte]

Also, this is exactly the kind of thread that brings value for LDM7 and being on the forum, he has connected with a lot of new TT friends here in a big positive way.

 

[NextLevel]

"and learning to do so is a very long process regardless it only gets slightly better" => Not cooL NL

I want a Cali 1800 BH loop (and flick) yesterday

Your comments on Elbow position is key (even more than grip) and racket head speed + watching Liam's video enlightens me & give me hope

i am trying to digest what Liam says, emulating his elbow position, racket starting angle & location relative to his body, how he lets the ball come to him, yet with a compact whip, generating powerful, spiny topspin

I am ready to Do Work!

Finally please know that i am keenly aware of my footwork needing work & the importance of setting a proper striking zone

yet could it be that i am lazy, or lack of physical conditioning ... innately i feel it is b/c i am not used to moving towards the ball (i get wide-eyed & excited so i reach) and also a bit of i don't know how to properly move

i recon there is a mental component too

i WILL break through by looking to move my feet more, reminding myself to let the ball come & move my feet to establish that beautiful, ideal striking zone

Thank you for helping me improve to the Next Level ... haha 😎

LDM7

Hahaha - when I try to do footwork, while the technical movements are important, the key for me is stable elbow position. That is why I think you need to develop a backhand stroke because it will affect your forehand as well. When you develop stable elbow position, then you try to get into position to play out of that stable elbow position. When you have the shot, then you know what grip you played it with and then think about how to modify your holding the racket so you can switch between shots. Remember there is always time in between when you hit the ball and when you need to play the next shot, you just need to be able to select that in time. Every good player with strong shots on both sides modifies their grip unconsciously to make forehand and backhand, no exceptions. They may all tell you they never change too, because they have gotten so used to it, they don't know the details. But it starts with getting the shot you want to hit correct. And to get the shot correct, do not be afraid to miss putting the ball on the table with the right stroke, you can always adjust if you have the right stroke by changing contact point or stroke path. Putting the ball on the table with a heavily compromised stroke just means you are stuck with a stroke that will not improve you as much as you get better.

 

[Brs]

Finally please know that i am keenly aware of my footwork needing work & the importance of setting a proper striking zone

yet could it be that i am lazy, or lack of physical conditioning ... innately i feel it is b/c i am not used to moving towards the ball (i get wide-eyed & excited so i reach) and also a bit of i don't know how to properly move

I think your footwork can get quite a bit better. Truly it is a very long process and will definitely never be perfect. But the goal is better, not perfect, so that's okay.

Here are some suggestions fwiw.

Record some every time you practice or play games, and watch it soon after. It doesn't have to be a lot, ten minutes is enough. It's important to learn to feel how you are moving and your balance. After you watch yourself enough you will start to know what you are doing in real time much more.

It could be that you are lazy or in bad condition. Those things are important for sure. But more likely you don't know soon enough where the ball is going, and you are probably not in an ideal position to start from. Both these make it nearly impossible to do anything but reach. We need to take two steps for every shot. Set up, move to the ball, set up, move to the ball. A footwork mistake most adult learners make is that our movements are way too big and we only have time for one. Here are some ideas to integrate smaller steps into your drills.

When you are working on a basic stroke from one position, all forehands or all backhands, blocking, anything where you "don't move." Take one step between each shot. It's not really a step to anywhere because you don't need to go anywhere. It's just picking your feet up and putting them down an inch or two away to reset your balance and posture to a good playing stance. This is really good for conditioning. And it should make your stroke quality better on whatever you are practicing at the time.

If you get comfortable with that try to add another small step to get into perfect position for the ball. This is particularly noticeable on the backhand block. So if you are backhand blocking you might block one, take a small hop an inch or two to get back on balance, and then again a couple inches in or out or side to side to block the next ball at the desired height without moving your elbow at all. When you move your elbow relative to your body it changes the bat angle. This is usually not desirable.

Do the same stroke from one position but move back to the start before each stroke. So like doing forehands, move to the forehand, play the ball, move back to the middle, then to the forehand again, play the ball ...

If you feel pretty good about your basic stroke mechanics and want to work on anticipation then add partial randomness. Some common examples:

1or 2 fh then 1 bh, or vice versa
1 or 2 both sides
bh-bh rally with random ball to fh, then back to bh-bh again
1 to middle then 1 to either side
short or long push to fh
1 or 2 short push to fh then 1 long
same on bh ...

All of the semi-random exercises are built around playing safe shots and watching your partner or coach's bat to see where he is directing the ball. If you wait until the ball is coming back to you to move you will fall behind. Which is exactly what happens in games.

While you are doing these don't think too much about your technique, or how good your shots are. We have established that your strokes are basically okay or else you wouldn't have started semi-random stuff. Anticipation and movement really takes all your mental energy when you aren't used to it. The dream is that after a few thousand hours of focused practice, it will only take half your mental energy.

 

[LDM7]

@littledragonman7

Kon'nichiwa Takkyu Inochi,

Thank you for watching & commenting

Your ideas for improving are appreciated

=> Like *try to get more of the same brushing feeling on all your shots* Working on it

=> it's true, my FH > BH; I am watching vids, talking to different players, getting lessons, shadow practice, on table drills (experimenting), changing thinking (mental) ... i am confident in time there will be improvements visually, quality & match results

=> there is a recurring theme on "waiting" throughout your comments, i think being relaxed, re-set between each ball & point along with between points routine helps

=> i am figuring out ways to slow the game down for me

=> my top priority is definitely EVERYTHING BH ... serves, flick, touch shots, loop, block(s), drives, setting strike zone (footwork) ... even at the expense of my FH digressing

=> i have not been around the game long enough to formalize training methodology

too-da-loo

LDM7