How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

[Der_Echte]

I think I do that sometimes, but perhaps tend to use the wrist, I leave the wrist behind, so the bat faces down the line. Probably a less consistent way of doing it!! Possibly more deceptive though.

Hi IB66,

On LOW power shots, like say serve receive or a FH flip over the table, this is excellent and effective technique. You have leverage and deception. Those who can do this with the right timing and step in are simply evil. Timing is not terrible difficult and the control is not unreasonable - might argue same amount of control on that shot. I strongly advocate players develop this kind of sudden opening of the wrist after they get basic serve receive down.

On BIG POWER shots, trying to go the other way by opening the wrist is tricky to time and not very controllable. I always advocate against that technique on power shots. The risk/reward is not worth it.

 

[NextLevel]

Nice one Wrighty. You met the dreaded old long pips guy and you triumphed. It's always a goods match any time you come back from 0 - 2 down.

You won completely by your bh down the line. It's a very nice shot. And perfect vs OLPGs because he can't move to cover it and doesn't really want to play with his inverted fh anyway. You *always* play it down the line so that even he was able to move there in time during the 5th set. You adjusted well by blocking his smashes. But vs a more mobile opponent you would want to var your shot placement.

Your serves (the practice was showing) and also fh smash on high easy balls also contributed a lot to the comeback. Sadly your fh topspin wasn't very much involved. The thing about playing an OLPG is they can only defend and pick-hit if you pop up a sitter. So there isn't any rush for you to win the point. But you do want to actively do something with any knuckleballs you get off their pips. Hit it, don't let it hit you. This is where a soft and easy, consistent and well-placed fh loop is so useful. Not a killer loop, not a third ball and done. Just to take control of every point, get moderate backspin balls back, and make the OLPG move til he can't any more. This is a simple and winning strategy. You did it the harder way, full credit to you.

About hooking your forehand --- set the playback speed to .25x and watch your forehand loops at 9:28 and 9:51. It is hooky because your elbow does not open or close even slightly during the swing. It is locked and the stroke is all from your shoulder. This is kind of dangerous for your shoulder. And also inefficient for making a quality ball. If you can relax your arm and let your elbow open and close on the fh, and move your upper arm a lot less, then you will have a more standard fh topspin stroke. Shadow practice is a common recommendation for this. Or if you have a robot, set it to an slow, easy (very easy, ridiculously, painfully easy) pace, and *video yourself from the side* and watch it back every five minutes or so, until you can accurately visualize what your body is really doing real-time as you train.

People use this video a lot. And it's a good video, I mean WLQ, fh, nice shot. https://youtu.be/_ppw7NT9g1w. His elbow opens almost to 180 degrees, then closes to almost 90. His upper arm only gets a bit away from the line of hius body during the follow through. It's not useful imo to try to copy this technique exactly because
a) we are not Wang lLiqin and
b) he is standing quite a bit further from the table than you were in the match video.

But the basic operation of his arm, closed to open to closed again, that anybody can copy within their own body and technique.

The caveat I would add is that a lot of the heavy lifting on turning is done by the left foot (sometimes both feet, but definitely the left foot). I think Wrighty has knee issues but even then, there should be some ability to get the ankles progressively stronger to able to handle the backswing.

 

[Wrighty67]

The caveat I would add is that a lot of the heavy lifting on turning is done by the left foot (sometimes both feet, but definitely the left foot). I think Wrighty has knee issues but even then, there should be some ability to get the ankles progressively stronger to able to handle the backswing.

No knee issues but a right calf that has 50% atrophied as a result of a disc issue, so less ability to push off on right leg.

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi Wrighty,

I gotta agree with brs on your FH topspin. You are moving the lower and upper arm together like it is in full inter-axel lock 4x4 mode. At low power impacts, this isn't terrible, but when you are trying to do a FH topspin explosively like that, you are adding big time strain to your rotator cuff area. It doesn't lend to any good bat speed or control on full swings.

You will need to figure out how to use a sequence (toes, leg, waist, abs, shoulders, a little upper arm then stop/slow down, lower arm, wrist, fingers to whip bat, then fingers to grip firm at impact). That was a mouthful !! The key is to be relaxed.

You tend to tighten the back of your shoulder and try to power the ball with shoulder from a standstill. That is difficult and not so effective in generating smooth easy power.

I can see that now very clearly, so need to work on re-learning the swing pattern I guess.

 

[NextLevel]

Hey LDM7 - it's been a while since I honoured my commitment to post matches alongside yours. I had a break over Christmas as a result of some tennis elbow resulting from too much practice vs robot and serving! a fair amount of work for this match, including an hour against my coach using pimples the week before. I am thrilled to tell you I managed a 3-2 win here despite having a torrid time and finding no rhythm in the first two games. In games 3/4/5 I gradually improved and managed to get on top of his serves and keep him on the back foot. He didn't play that well but I was pleased nonetheless.My observation is mostly that, once again, I am not moving my feet enough and so am often out of position to play a good shot from the right hitting zone - so often I am trying to hit the shot before I am recovered and in position. I work so hard on this but am not unlocking it in matches.As always, any observations or advice gratefully received.Keep well all...https://youtu.be/VtLNfJNstVI

By way of an edit - I would really appreciate any feedback on how I might alter the "shape" of my FH swing to one that is less hooky - what am I doing and what can I focus on to change this swing shape?

I enjoyed watching the match and wonder whether you or your opponent had any coaching. It was interesting to see him largely serve to your backhand and I think the biggest thing you did was not self-destruct as you managed to get higher balls later on and put them away with good reads, while earlier in the match the pips sometimes got you because you hadn't gotten used to the timing yet.

 

[Wrighty67]

I enjoyed watching the match and wonder whether you or your opponent had any coaching. It was interesting to see him largely serve to your backhand and I think the biggest thing you did was not self-destruct as you managed to get higher balls later on and put them away with good reads, while earlier in the match the pips sometimes got you because you hadn't gotten used to the timing yet.

Yes, we both share a coach. I go weekly and Andy less often - he’s been playing for 40 years non-stop. I re-started 12 months ago after a 3G year break so his experience is huge.

I was pleased I managed to start opening up on my BH and finding some timing in games 3/4/5.

 

[latej]

By way of an edit - I would really appreciate any feedback on how I might alter the "shape" of my FH swing to one that is less hooky - what am I doing and what can I focus on to change this swing shape?

Finally found the toy/dummy video, which captures the principle the best, imho. I wanted to post it on several occasions already, but couldn't find it.

 

[NextLevel]

Yes, we both share a coach. I go weekly and Andy less often - he’s been playing for 40 years non-stop. I re-started 12 months ago after a 3G year break so his experience is huge.

I was pleased I managed to start opening up on my BH and finding some timing in games 3/4/5.

I was thinking more about match coaching - funny though that you both share the same coach.

 

[Wrighty67]

I was thinking more about match coaching - funny though that you both share the same coach.

Well, the coach will work on match strategy to a degree - in this case he used pimples for our most recent session and we worked on game plans.

 

[Wrighty67]

Finally found the toy/dummy video, which captures the principle the best, imho. I wanted to post it on several occasions already, but couldn't find it.

Great video, thanks for sharing. Not so simple to achieve but easy to understand..

 

[IB66]

Hi Wrighty,

Good victory, tricky ol Andy only knocked up with his inverted rubber!! I hate it when they do that!!!🤣

Only thing I sort of picked up on was your last serve to win the match!! You stepped in close to the table as part of the serve action, If a good fast long receive had been played, you would have got stuck. Especially if towards your middle/crossover or backhand. On the scale of things a minor observation!!

 

[LDM7]

How do Wrighty?

I want your BH mate! Looking good 👍

I particularly like the ones where your bat is ready early, perceiving the ball and striking it off the bounce, down the line. Compact and effective.

Question: do you have a BH cross-court or was this match more strategic b/c Andy wasn’t moving that swiftly?

Your serves also got better towards the later ends, more variety in depth, sides and spin. There were some nice set-ups (3rd ball)

I agree with your self-assessment of better foot-work. It is easier to move towards ball path to set effective strike zone when stance is lower. Leg exercises e.g. wall squats, dumbbell lunges, barbell squat and extensions would strengthen lower body and core, making it possible to play less up-right

Finally did you make it to Australia during the holidays? Getting in some hits with the locals (TTD)?

I am encouraged by your progress. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi Wrighty,

I gotta agree with brs on your FH topspin. You are moving the lower and upper arm together like it is in full inter-axel lock 4x4 mode. At low power impacts, this isn't terrible, but when you are trying to do a FH topspin explosively like that, you are adding big time strain to your rotator cuff area. It doesn't lend to any good bat speed or control on full swings.

You will need to figure out how to use a sequence (toes, leg, waist, abs, shoulders, a little upper arm then stop/slow down, lower arm, wrist, fingers to whip bat, then fingers to grip firm at impact). That was a mouthful !! The key is to be relaxed.

You tend to tighten the back of your shoulder and try to power the ball with shoulder from a standstill. That is difficult and not so effective in generating smooth easy power.

Thanks Der - that made me smile. They are indeed in lock step - no idea how or why that has happened but my shoulder feels it and my FH quality is not where I want it. I will work on separating the two and swinging freely!

 

[Wrighty67]

Hi Wrighty,

Good victory, tricky ol Andy only knocked up with his inverted rubber!! I hate it when they do that!!!🤣

Only thing I sort of picked up on was your last serve to win the match!! You stepped in close to the table as part of the serve action, If a good fast long receive had been played, you would have got stuck. Especially if towards your middle/crossover or backhand. On the scale of things a minor observation!!

Thanks IB - Old Andy P is a tricky competitor and throws only the odd pimple in to a warm up to cause confusion!

I hadn't noticed the serve, but in general that is an issue - if I get a punchy push back I am not positioned well and often hit on the retreat so need to remember to trigger a side (towards BH) and rearwards step after serve.

 

[Wrighty67]

How do Wrighty?

I want your BH mate! Looking good 👍

I particularly like the ones where your bat is ready early, perceiving the ball and striking it off the bounce, down the line. Compact and effective.

Question: do you have a BH cross-court or was this match more strategic b/c Andy wasn’t moving that swiftly?

Your serves also got better towards the later ends, more variety in depth, sides and spin. There were some nice set-ups (3rd ball)

I agree with your self-assessment of better foot-work. It is easier to move towards ball path to set effective strike zone when stance is lower. Leg exercises e.g. wall squats, dumbbell lunges, barbell squat and extensions would strengthen lower body and core, making it possible to play less up-right

Finally did you make it to Australia during the holidays? Getting in some hits with the locals (TTD)?

I am encouraged by your progress. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for the support LDM - I do use BH to both sides but in this match wanted to move Andy around and stretch him wide on his FH. Serves were limited here as I was trying to stay away from side spin and just use float and back vs the pimples in order to drive a float or top return of serve.

I did get to Aus but no play was made as I was busy and then got Covid!

Take care and keep rolling..

 

[Brs]

Thinking in terms of steps is possibly unhelpful. Steps are too slow. Watch the first two points of Miyu Nagasaki serving here https://youtu.be/RjhKScoDzJQ and see how she jumps into ready position moving both feet at once. You could choose any pro and see the same thing.

Sorry if I am being pedantic and that is anyway what you meant. I mention it only because I used to always (and still do when I am lazy) take steps instead of hopping into ready position after serve. And I miss out on many attack chances because of it.

 

[NextLevel]

If your recovery is too slow on your pendulum serves, just switch to backhand serves (like me), and then you can forget about recovery lol.

 

[Wrighty67]

Thinking in terms of steps is possibly unhelpful. Steps are too slow. Watch the first two points of Miyu Nagasaki serving here https://youtu.be/RjhKScoDzJQ and see how she jumps into ready position moving both feet at once. You could choose any pro and see the same thing.

Sorry if I am being pedantic and that is anyway what you meant. I mention it only because I used to always (and still do when I am lazy) take steps instead of hopping into ready position after serve. And I miss out on many attack chances because of it.

Yep, you are correct of course - everything in my TT needs to speed up. I have to say that apart from writing myself an aide memoire on my hand, I just seem to get stuck in one position (too central) and forget to move when match playing. The more important the match, the more anxious I am - the more static I am

 

[NextLevel]

Yep, you are correct of course - everything in my TT needs to speed up. I have to say that apart from writing myself an aide memoire on my hand, I just seem to get stuck in one position (too central) and forget to move when match playing. The more important the match, the more anxious I am - the more static I am

You don't need to move much if your opponent doesn't make you move much - don't get caught up in the myth that there is something wrong with staying in one position - it's more about the tension in your legs and shot readiness if anything, but that isn't really about moving per se. If you serve in position, and your opponent always hits the ball back to you where you like it, then moving is not an issue. The problem is if you serve in a position that makes you unprepared for a certain shot and you get a return that forces that shot - what kinds of movements in balance do you need to make to play that shot? At a higher level, beyond that next shot, what things do you have to do the play the shot after that after making that shot to make sure you are not compromised fundamentally for the next shot?

This is what footwork is about, and if you understand this the solutions you can use don't always have to be textbook, though the textbook ones are really good.

 

[Wrighty67]

You don't need to move much if your opponent doesn't make you move much - don't get caught up in the myth that there is something wrong with staying in one position - it's more about the tension in your legs and shot readiness if anything, but that isn't really about moving per se. If you serve in position, and your opponent always hits the ball back to you where you like it, then moving is not an issue. The problem is if you serve in a position that makes you unprepared for a certain shot and you get a return that forces that shot - what kinds of movements in balance do you need to make to play that shot? At a higher level, beyond that next shot, what things do you have to do the play the shot after that after making that shot to make sure you are not compromised fundamentally for the next shot?

This is what footwork is about, and if you understand this the solutions you can use don't always have to be textbook, though the textbook ones are really good.

I feel maybe it's often a function of me being too close to the table for a deep service return or alternatively another one I find often is I am not far enough across to the BH side for a decent topspin or block and my body is not behind the ball. Either way I am out of optimum position for the shot so need better footwork I guess.