How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

[dingyibvs]

Thanks - makes sense. I need to focus on finding and identifying that catch and release feeling I guess. When you say BH hit - what exactly do you mean (Flat hit or more open blade topspin?)

No problem! If you look at Fang Yinchi when he demonstrates the wrist only technique, you can see that he has his elbow/forearm in the optimal hitting position. He doesn't even realize how just getting to that point can be such a struggle for adult learners. He may recognize it in someone when he does coaching camps, but he would most likely see it as an easy adjustment, get the student to do it right a couple times while serving multi-ball to the same spot, and then move on to the next topic.

Practicing this actually takes a lot of time. It doesn't take long to find that feeling, but it takes a lot of practice to get it with any degree of consistency. I took some steps back before finally taking steps forward. In a real game the ball's speed and trajectory changes drastically with every shot, it can take a long time to even begin doing it consistently. Like @NextLevel alluded to, improvement is not a rigid process, it'll depend on the situation with each coach and student. Most adult learners aren't so interested in getting the fundamentals right that they're willing to be stagnant or maybe worse for some time before getting better, they just want to get better with every practice. That's perfectly fine, there's simply nothing wrong with wanting that.

With that said, IMO at our level of play, it doesn't take long for this type of practice to start improving our game. I was worse for maybe a couple weeks, and then stagnant for a couple months as my technique seesawed, and since then have seen steady improvement. A couple weeks ago I feel like something finally clicked. I think it's because I finally found a practice partner of similar level so that I could really train this shot against a real human, with progressively more complex and more real game-like situations that we can control.

 

[IB66]

Hi Dingyibvs,

BH hit? - Flat hit or more open blade topspin? that was Wrighty67's question.

No problem! If you look at Fang Yinchi when he demonstrates the wrist only technique, you can see that he has his elbow/forearm in the optimal hitting position. He doesn't even realize how just getting to that point can be such a struggle for adult learners. He may recognize it in someone when he does coaching camps, but he would most likely see it as an easy adjustment, get the student to do it right a couple times while serving multi-ball to the same spot, and then move on to the next topic.

Practicing this actually takes a lot of time. It doesn't take long to find that feeling, but it takes a lot of practice to get it with any degree of consistency. I took some steps back before finally taking steps forward. In a real game the ball's speed and trajectory changes drastically with every shot, it can take a long time to even begin doing it consistently. Like @NextLevel alluded to, improvement is not a rigid process, it'll depend on the situation with each coach and student. Most adult learners aren't so interested in getting the fundamentals right that they're willing to be stagnant or maybe worse for some time before getting better, they just want to get better with every practice. That's perfectly fine, there's simply nothing wrong with wanting that.

With that said, IMO at our level of play, it doesn't take long for this type of practice to start improving our game. I was worse for maybe a couple weeks, and then stagnant for a couple months as my technique seesawed, and since then have seen steady improvement. A couple weeks ago I feel like something finally clicked. I think it's because I finally found a practice partner of similar level so that I could really train this shot against a real human, with progressively more complex and more real game-like situations that we can control.

 

[IB66]

Basic strokes to learn as a beginner are FH and BH drive, FH and BH push, plus a serve.
A basic drive and push have very little use of the wrist. Although it is very important to relax and still grip lightly. one issue we sometimes encounter is a learner can tighten up their grip too much because the wrist is almost 'fixed' in place!!

The Drive is a sort of mid point, it sits between a block and topspin, so its a good starting point, reduce movement and a drive becomes a block, increase movement and use a little wrist and a drive becomes a topspin.
Liam Pitchford has, what some may say excessive use of the wrist!!

 

[dingyibvs]

Hi Dingyibvs,

BH hit? - Flat hit or more open blade topspin? that was Wrighty67's question.

Hit, very little topspin is imparted. There will be a little bit of topspin because the racket angle leans forward a bit, but you shouldn't intentionally try to impart spin to the ball with this stroke. It's the analog of the FH hit which most people warm up with. It IMO forms the basis of most BH strokes. Cock back the wrist and snap and brush and you get the FH close to the table loop, which is the bread and butter BH stroke at higher levels and what you see most of the time in BH/BH rallies. Focus more on hitting the ball then brush and you get the BH drive. Maximally extend your forearm and firm up the wrist with explosive power and you get the punch, Adriana Diaz style.

 

[IB66]

Hit, very little topspin is imparted. There will be a little bit of topspin because the racket angle leans forward a bit, but you shouldn't intentionally try to impart spin to the ball with this stroke. It's the analog of the FH hit which most people warm up with. It IMO forms the basis of most BH strokes. Cock back the wrist and snap and brush and you get the FH close to the table loop, which is the bread and butter BH stroke at higher levels and what you see most of the time in BH/BH rallies. Focus more on hitting the ball then brush and you get the BH drive. Maximally extend your forearm and firm up the wrist with explosive power and you get the punch, Adriana Diaz style.

What you call a Hit I'd call a Drive. 'Focus more on hitting (thru) the ball than brush and you get the BH drive'

 

[dingyibvs]

What you call a Hit I'd call a Drive. 'Focus more on hitting (thru) the ball than brush and you get the BH drive'

I see, what I call drive is a combination of speed and spin, the most powerful shot possible, like the FH drive. In Chinese these terms are pretty well defined, unfortunately in English there seems to be a dearth of terms to describe TT strokes.

 

[NextLevel]

Basic strokes to learn as a beginner are FH and BH drive, FH and BH push, plus a serve.
A basic drive and push have very little use of the wrist. Although it is very important to relax and still grip lightly. one issue we sometimes encounter is a learner can tighten up their grip too much because the wrist is almost 'fixed' in place!!

The Drive is a sort of mid point, it sits between a block and topspin, so its a good starting point, reduce movement and a drive becomes a block, increase movement and use a little wrist and a drive becomes a topspin.
Liam Pitchford has, what some may say excessive use of the wrist!!

Liam's wrist usage is pretty standard at the world class level. I wouldn't say that everyone has to do it exactly like him. But in a sport where just having some things done better can give you a technical advantage that produces higher quality shot, well time wrist usage on the backswing and forward swing can raise ball quality in terms of speed and spin on both forehand and backhand. For someone like me who can't bend his knees etc, it has helped me do some interesting things.

The issue though is whether thus is thr best way to start out playing backhands. Isn't it better to play a backhand without using the wrist since wrist timing adds moving parts that many adults mess up in various ways? Some even injure themselves

Even the guys I have seen do it wrong often have higher ball quality than the guys who don't do it at all. But everyone I know who does it as an adult learner had to put some time into practicing something.

The main reason I am not against learning to use the wrist on day one is that the action of using the wrist is not that different from what you do when you crack a whip or throw a Frisbee. If you have a start position and a finishing position and you swing through it and make contact with the ball somewhere in between, it usually just works. And multiball makes it easier to just practice anything. But I find the proper use of the forearm and elbow positioning on the backswing more structurally important when playing backhands. Wrist timing can be enhanced later or at the same time. Most people who use the wrist "wrong" usually just have bad elbow positioning on the backswing so it makes their follow through awkward even if the wrist is adding quality. Not lining up with the ball on the backswing with good elbow positioning as @dingyibvs pointed out is usually the biggest issue and lining up with the ball.can compensate for bad body positioning as William Henzell discussed in his TTEdge Tutorial.

But if you don't use it and learn to backswing properly , you usually have a better structure to play out of than most people and you will usually be able to add wrist usage later with training as well.

 

[NextLevel]

The only thing I would change in this video is the follow through on some strokes he shadows and does ‐ his actual swing on some balls has a few of my preferred follow throughs. It is still a perfect illustration of the classic way to to swing at the ball and is similar to the coach Hoang video I often recommend as well.