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LOL I guess I'm he exception. I had basically zero skills in BH loops vs backspin and made it far above 1000. It's a real pain to go back to the basics to develop a BH game, especially since even after I made a lot of improvements it still wasn't a net positive for my game at the level I'm trying to compete in.

Just to give @Gozo an idea of what level of accuracy is needed in practice. You guys saw how awful my BH opening loop was in my practice games. Well, in single location practices I was hitting damn near 100%, and in multiple locations over 80%. It still wasn't enough, as not only did I need to land the shot in games, they need to have enough quality not to give the opponent an easy ball to attack.
Hi Ding,

Referring to my BH loop video previously, I need to get that kind of pace in my club regular game with my club-mates. Those dudes, if I were to give them slow spinny loops with high arc, they can counter-loop back. So, I am forced to up my game tempo. Not that I want it, but circumstances dictates it. And if I push back to them, they can counter-loop back too. My options are limited. I am forced to adapt.

In another club which I rarely go now, where the players are of lower level, I can push a few balls and wait for opportunity to loop at my own pace.
 
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Hi Ding,

Referring to my BH loop video previously, I need to get that kind of pace in my club regular game with my club-mates. Those dudes, if I were to give them slow spinny loops with high arc, they can counter-loop back. So, I am forced to up my game tempo. Not that I want it, but circumstances dictates it. And if I push back to them, they can counter-loop back too. My options are limited. I am forced to adapt.

In another club which I rarely go now, where the players are of lower level, I can push a few balls and wait for opportunity to loop at my own pace.

These are the usual "good reasons" given by players who do not want to *learn* to spin slowly (or more accurately, with extremely heavy rotation, which usually means slowly if someone is not an extremely athletic player) for their decision. It has many analogies to the "good reasons" given by players who use fast blades to learn to play TT - the main thing to remember is that it is a decision, not a fact of reality. (Full confession: I was there, my coach told me that I didn't spin the ball even though I thought I did - it took some mental retraining to get what he meant and focus on rotation and my game took a jump pretty quickly after I embraced rotation).

The story: If my blade is slow, my balls will be slow so people will smack my ball.

True story: At the club two weekends ago, a guy who started playing maybe 18 months ago actually came up to me to complain that a couple of guys he struggles to beat at the club frustrate him because they play too slow. I know these guys, and these guys play extremely spinny balls (to the point that if I am not on my game, I struggle against them) so he hated playing with them since they mostly just spun the ball to him and let him mistime the ball over and over as he tried to block or smack it. I just told him that he hadn't gotten to the point where he understood what he needed to do to get better and he was still having fun getting better doing the things he enjoyed doing and that whenever he wanted to get better doing the things he didn't enjoy as much, he would appreciate the free coaching I gave him more.

This idea that one needs to smack the ball before one has maximized the limits of their spin potential is very common and it is almost always wrong. As blahness pointed out in his great post, being better at TT almost always comes down to being able to use spin more effectively than your opponent, usually by generating more of it. And contrary to naive understandings of TT, you don't get better at using spin by smacking the ball faster (trust me, I tried) - you get better at using spin by focusing on generating it, and then over time, learning to use that variation to produce a lot of different shots.
 
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Hi Ding,

Referring to my BH loop video previously, I need to get that kind of pace in my club regular game with my club-mates. Those dudes, if I were to give them slow spinny loops with high arc, they can counter-loop back. So, I am forced to up my game tempo. Not that I want it, but circumstances dictates it. And if I push back to them, they can counter-loop back too. My options are limited. I am forced to adapt.

In another club which I rarely go now, where the players are of lower level, I can push a few balls and wait for opportunity to loop at my own pace.

Gozo, you will likely really hate on Next Level and Der_Echte when we would say that you really do not spin the ball very heavy.

Go ahead and right now, pin up full sized pics of us at the pub for the dart throwing and get it out of your system.

If you can spin the ball real heavy and slow, you will mess up players up to the top 3 percent of all players. In the USA, a 2300 level player is like 6 levels better than a 2000 level player... and when I as such a 2000 player get the chance to spin heavy, AND they try to smack it, I win 60-80% of the points. I like those percentages. And that is if I am sloppy on my placement.

I agree with NL, you may THINK you are spinning heavy, but it is medium at best and not enough to trouble much of anyone. Being able to spin heavy and SLOW, plus spin heavy at all speeds, plus vary the spin at all speeds is a HUGE asset and worth striving to do.
 
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Hi Ding,

Referring to my BH loop video previously, I need to get that kind of pace in my club regular game with my club-mates. Those dudes, if I were to give them slow spinny loops with high arc, they can counter-loop back. So, I am forced to up my game tempo. Not that I want it, but circumstances dictates it. And if I push back to them, they can counter-loop back too. My options are limited. I am forced to adapt.

In another club which I rarely go now, where the players are of lower level, I can push a few balls and wait for opportunity to loop at my own pace.

You and I have the same dilemma with backhand opening loops, especially against those punch-drive lovers, though I'm some kinda hybrid, due to long exposure with short pips backhand, after opening loops, I start to whack any incoming balls, even producing knuckle balls with inverted whacking :ROFLMAO:

Maybe you can consult with you coach, if it is in favor to both of you to train variations on loops (slow + spinny + high arc, and speedy + direct/low arc + less spin). From personal experience, those two are the basic variations. Like der said, it can 'upgraded' to various type of shots.
 
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Hi Ding,

Referring to my BH loop video previously, I need to get that kind of pace in my club regular game with my club-mates. Those dudes, if I were to give them slow spinny loops with high arc, they can counter-loop back. So, I am forced to up my game tempo. Not that I want it, but circumstances dictates it. And if I push back to them, they can counter-loop back too. My options are limited. I am forced to adapt.

In another club which I rarely go now, where the players are of lower level, I can push a few balls and wait for opportunity to loop at my own pace.
I do agree with the others that you're probably not spinning enough if they can counter-loop them back. If you're able to give them trouble otherwise, then they're probably not at high enough of a level to do that. With that said, the balls that are fed to you in the video are not really ones you wanna spin. You can't really spin high ones effectively, you'd have to wait for them to drop to around table level or lower, which is probably not a good habit to develop as the high ones are the ones you should drive back not only because it's a fast shot but because it's a safer shot once you've got a hang of it.
 
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I do agree with the others that you're probably not spinning enough if they can counter-loop them back. If you're able to give them trouble otherwise, then they're probably not at high enough of a level to do that. With that said, the balls that are fed to you in the video are not really ones you wanna spin. You can't really spin high ones effectively, you'd have to wait for them to drop to around table level or lower, which is probably not a good habit to develop as the high ones are the ones you should drive back not only because it's a fast shot but because it's a safer shot once you've got a hang of it.
Agreed - the real spinny loops are a nightmare to counterloop in general. It's like handling a hot potato. When I do these loops barely does anyone counterloop it back with good percentages too. Now I really admire Ma Long's counterlooping skill - he really is quite insanely good to have such high percentages counterlooping against the spinniest highest quality loops in the world.
 
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I do agree with the others that you're probably not spinning enough if they can counter-loop them back. If you're able to give them trouble otherwise, then they're probably not at high enough of a level to do that. With that said, the balls that are fed to you in the video are not really ones you wanna spin. You can't really spin high ones effectively, you'd have to wait for them to drop to around table level or lower, which is probably not a good habit to develop as the high ones are the ones you should drive back not only because it's a fast shot but because it's a safer shot once you've got a hang of it.
I think with an extremely fast setup, he can spin the high ones effectively, in fact it is the only way he is going to get consistent quickly IMHO. It actually won't be as slow as you think it is because again, it is an extremely fast set up. But because of the speed of what he is using, he has to let the equipment do the work.
 
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I reversed my losing streak last session. Today I won most matches against my training partner who improved so much and is a serving monster now with deadly ZJK style reverse pendulum serves. Biggest change I did was to not be so gung ho against his opening loops, and to use a safe sidespin block instead of a full blown counterloop. This allowed me to go into at least a 50-50 topspin rally and then look for chances to add quality when he lets up on the pressure.

The other thing I was trying out was timing the weight transfer step with the hitting of the ball - left foot for FH loops, right foot for BH loops and short balls - whenever I timed it right I definitely got a boost in quality. It can't be too late or early - this is almost like dance of sorts.
 
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With great disappointment, I have to say that I won't be able to play in the tournament this weekend. I injured my right ankle pretty badly playing soccer on Thursday, the front and right part of my ankle is now swollen up to the size of my lower calf and I can hardly walk.

Due to spring break this week, the majority of my team couldn't make our 5 on 5 soccer league, so we had to play 4 on 5 with no subs. I was too tired near the end of the game, and at the end of a run I tried to stop but couldn't so I slid and my right foot got caught in a pit on the field (the field condition is also terrible, tall grass and very uneven). It got hyper extended pretty badly, I heard some weird pops. I think I tore some ligament, though my active range of motion appears mostly intact. All I can do now is just rest, ice, and NSAIDs. It'll probably take months before I fully recover. I'll try to resume light practices when I'm able to do stationary exercises.
 
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With great disappointment, I have to say that I won't be able to play in the tournament this weekend. I injured my right ankle pretty badly playing soccer on Thursday, the front and right part of my ankle is now swollen up to the size of my lower calf and I can hardly walk.

Due to spring break this week, the majority of my team couldn't make our 5 on 5 soccer league, so we had to play 4 on 5 with no subs. I was too tired near the end of the game, and at the end of a run I tried to stop but couldn't so I slid and my right foot got caught in a pit on the field (the field condition is also terrible, tall grass and very uneven). It got hyper extended pretty badly, I heard some weird pops. I think I tore some ligament, though my active range of motion appears mostly intact. All I can do now is just rest, ice, and NSAIDs. It'll probably take months before I fully recover. I'll try to resume light practices when I'm able to do stationary exercises.
stick to TT next time. Safer 🤣
 
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With great disappointment, I have to say that I won't be able to play in the tournament this weekend. I injured my right ankle pretty badly playing soccer on Thursday, the front and right part of my ankle is now swollen up to the size of my lower calf and I can hardly walk.

Due to spring break this week, the majority of my team couldn't make our 5 on 5 soccer league, so we had to play 4 on 5 with no subs. I was too tired near the end of the game, and at the end of a run I tried to stop but couldn't so I slid and my right foot got caught in a pit on the field (the field condition is also terrible, tall grass and very uneven). It got hyper extended pretty badly, I heard some weird pops. I think I tore some ligament, though my active range of motion appears mostly intact. All I can do now is just rest, ice, and NSAIDs. It'll probably take months before I fully recover. I'll try to resume light practices when I'm able to do stationary exercises.
Sorry to hear buddy.
Injuries really suck.

RICE, NSAIDs, physio.

Hope you have a speedy recovery.
 
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With great disappointment, I have to say that I won't be able to play in the tournament this weekend. I injured my right ankle pretty badly playing soccer on Thursday, the front and right part of my ankle is now swollen up to the size of my lower calf and I can hardly walk.

Due to spring break this week, the majority of my team couldn't make our 5 on 5 soccer league, so we had to play 4 on 5 with no subs. I was too tired near the end of the game, and at the end of a run I tried to stop but couldn't so I slid and my right foot got caught in a pit on the field (the field condition is also terrible, tall grass and very uneven). It got hyper extended pretty badly, I heard some weird pops. I think I tore some ligament, though my active range of motion appears mostly intact. All I can do now is just rest, ice, and NSAIDs. It'll probably take months before I fully recover. I'll try to resume light practices when I'm able to do stationary exercises.
:( :( :( that's really bad news, I hope you recover fast! This is also why I refuse to play TT/badminton in arenas with shit flooring because stuff like this can really mess you up.
 
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With great disappointment, I have to say that I won't be able to play in the tournament this weekend. I injured my right ankle pretty badly playing soccer on Thursday, the front and right part of my ankle is now swollen up to the size of my lower calf and I can hardly walk.

Due to spring break this week, the majority of my team couldn't make our 5 on 5 soccer league, so we had to play 4 on 5 with no subs. I was too tired near the end of the game, and at the end of a run I tried to stop but couldn't so I slid and my right foot got caught in a pit on the field (the field condition is also terrible, tall grass and very uneven). It got hyper extended pretty badly, I heard some weird pops. I think I tore some ligament, though my active range of motion appears mostly intact. All I can do now is just rest, ice, and NSAIDs. It'll probably take months before I fully recover. I'll try to resume light practices when I'm able to do stationary exercises.
Very bad luck - I have had ankle problems for many years and often roll my right one. Painful and debilitating.

I just got back from skiing and spent time each day worrying that if I fell and hurt a knee I wouldn't be able to play when I got back :)
 
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With great disappointment, I have to say that I won't be able to play in the tournament this weekend. I injured my right ankle pretty badly playing soccer on Thursday, the front and right part of my ankle is now swollen up to the size of my lower calf and I can hardly walk.

Due to spring break this week, the majority of my team couldn't make our 5 on 5 soccer league, so we had to play 4 on 5 with no subs. I was too tired near the end of the game, and at the end of a run I tried to stop but couldn't so I slid and my right foot got caught in a pit on the field (the field condition is also terrible, tall grass and very uneven). It got hyper extended pretty badly, I heard some weird pops. I think I tore some ligament, though my active range of motion appears mostly intact. All I can do now is just rest, ice, and NSAIDs. It'll probably take months before I fully recover. I'll try to resume light practices when I'm able to do stationary exercises.
Sad to hear - good luck with the recovery.
 
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Good morning guys, it is early morning where I'm at and I am now starting my four hour drive north bound to my tourney venue. Games starts at two pm.
 
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As the result is less than spectacular instead of showing you my footage I shall show you some touristy images.
448B08B5-C557-4872-89C8-ABC0DBEABE95.jpeg
DF397705-7432-4D84-BB23-833FCD02646A.jpeg

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a

03A1435A-353D-4A1F-BC5E-D898BEF1FA0A.jpeg

free curry rice, chicken wing and beer.
image.jpg

Its close to midnight now and the street food scene is still going strong.
 
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As the result is less than spectacular instead of showing you my footage I shall instead show you some touristy image instead.View attachment 24960View attachment 24961
View attachment 24962a

View attachment 24963
free curry rice, chicken wing and beer.
View attachment 24964
Its close to midnight now and the street food scene is still going strong.

Since it is all largely for fun, don't make the learning journey be about spectacular results - I am sure some things must have gone well. And at least you have the experiences now to learn from.

Did you really drive 4 hours for the tournament and play on the same day? Or did you share the drive with friends? It's pretty rough to travel (especially if you are driving) four hours and play, when I have done similar things, I find my playing level is never quite right, so I try to find ways to either get there early enough to rest or to stay overnight so I am in the right shape.
 
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