Nasty rubber setup, another great ERT video

[NextLevel]

exactly my point. Inverted should be its own separate tournament. Hardbat or pips should be its own category.

How silly would it be if Roger Federer played with strings and Nadal played with rubber on his racket that produces a different type of effect?

It's obviously how TT evolved and the role of spin and the table size, some people think that inverted ruined the sport. In tennis, the racket technology has evolved over time as well, but the role of spin and the ball speed is not the same as in table tennis, so you could give Nadal a different racket, it wouldn't help. People are doing what they can within the rules, they actually took away some of the advantages of pips styles with the rule changes.

What Idesawa is doing requires a lot of talent, same with Ni Xialian, Qian Tianyi beat Sun Yingsha on a day where Sun Yingsha had lost about 4 matches in a row including that one.

 

[zeio]

Idesawa is a flash in the pan, for lack of a better phrase. Similar to but much more severe than Ito, the more one plays her, the less of a threat she becomes. After her debut year, her record in the T League has been very ugly.

All-Japan TTC 2019
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/japan-national-championships-2019.19989/post-256516
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/japan-national-championships-2019.19989/post-256659

WJTTC 2019
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...jttc-2019-in-karat-thailand.22335/post-297367

All-Japan TTC 2020
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...championship-2020-jan-13-19.22651/post-302502

T League 2019-20, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23
https://tleague.jp/ranking/standings.php?gender=2&type=1&year=2019
https://tleague.jp/ranking/standings.php?gender=2&type=1&year=2020
https://tleague.jp/ranking/standings.php?gender=2&type=1&year=2021
https://tleague.jp/ranking/standings.php?gender=2&type=1&year=2022

 

[NextLevel]

ERT himself also noted how QTY defeated Sun Yinsha but struggled against a non-world class player.

ERT is really stupid for saying this to be honest and it is the kind of thing that makes people realize he is not really an informed fan of the sport. Idesawa is a world class player in every way - how many players ever get to play for their junior national team or in T-:League, talk less of the junior national team of Japan? She would be on the first national team of just about any country outside of Japan and China and maybe Korea. She will probably age better than a lot of players, but probably never good enough to make the first team.

That's the problem with taking ERT as an authority, it makes you sound really gullible.

 

[TensorBackhand]

ERT is really stupid for saying this to be honest and it is the kind of thing that makes people realize he is not really an informed fan of the sport. Idesawa is a world class player in every way - how many players ever get to play for their junior national team or in T-:League, talk less of the junior national team of Japan? She would be on the first national team of just about any country outside of Japan and China and maybe Korea. She will probably age better than a lot of players, but probably never good enough to make the first team.

That's the problem with taking ERT as an authority, it makes you sound really gullible.

I dunno, we have to wait and see. As of now, I also think shes not a great pro, but just a oddball problem. The more you play her, the more solved she is.

Its not like Harimoto who always has the potential to be dangerous.

 

[NextLevel]

I dunno, we have to wait and see. As of now, I also think shes not a great pro, but just a oddball problem. The more you play her, the more solved she is.

Its not like Harimoto who always has the potential to be dangerous.

If you played Idesawa 10 times, how many matches do you think you would win?

The T-League is brutal. Don't confuse someone struggling in the T- league with their playing level. She would easily be top 100. More likely top 30. Maybe you think world class is top 5 or something.

 

[Metaxa]

Most players who now play with SP or LP have ever tried to play with inverted rubbers. Many of them may or may not have trained for hours (but not enough) but couldn't control their strokes and as a result they made no progress. As a result, they start with SP or even worse with LP. After an adjustment, they progress quickly and feel superior to players who play with 2 x inverted rubbers.
In fact, they have to resort to technical material because it will not work with "ordinary material", especially when they play with LPs that have no ball curve according to the logic of how table tennis should be played according to science.
In no other sport would this be possible or allowed!

I know players who have moved into the top 100 in their country after playing with LPs. Previously when they were still trying to make progress with inverted rubbers, they were not yet in the top 3000 of their country.

But it is indeed possible, with a lot of training, to win against such players if you have the opportunity.

 

[zeio]

Idesawa's highest world ranking was 294, set in 2/2020, after playing for half a year from 5-11/2019, the only year she played international competitions. Her winning percentage in singles is 72% (21/29).

Of note here is that she played JGD with H. Ojio and JXD with Shinozuka at WJTTC 2019, only losing in 5 against KM/Shi Xunyao in QF and XP/KM in R32. Still, in the R32 of JXD they edged out Nikhil Kumar/Amy Wang in 5.

At the Asian Junior & Cadet Championships 2019 in August, she beat Wu Yangchen 4-0 in the SF of JGS. Wu Yangchen won the next encounter 4-2 in the R16 of JGS at WJTTC 2019 in late November. That win could be why they fielded her twice in the final of JGD at WJTTC 2019 (1-3 KM and 1-3 Shi Xunyao).

 

[TensorBackhand]

Most players who now play with SP or LP have ever tried to play with inverted rubbers. Many of them may or may not have trained for hours (but not enough) but couldn't control their strokes and as a result they made no progress. As a result, they start with SP or even worse with LP. After an adjustment, they progress quickly and feel superior to players who play with 2 x inverted rubbers.
In fact, they have to resort to technical material because it will not work with "ordinary material", especially when they play with LPs that have no ball curve according to the logic of how table tennis should be played according to science.
In no other sport would this be possible or allowed!

I know players who have moved into the top 100 in their country after playing with LPs. Previously when they were still trying to make progress with inverted rubbers, they were not yet in the top 3000 of their country.

But it is indeed possible, with a lot of training, to win against such players if you have the opportunity.

Exactly this. I'm not surprised at all by this.

LP shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. It's not fair that I have to prepare for inverted and LP and SP in a single tournament. Whereas LP players basically just prepare for 1 style, the double inverted.

There are literally tens of thousands of materials on the Earth. If LP is legal, why not make more different surfaces using other materials? I think its more a legacy of the history of rubber. But in terms of creating a fair sporting and training environment, it really doesn't make sense anymore.

 

[ejprinz]

My take is that I follow the ITTF rules 100% (no boosting, etc.) and everything allowed is something I have to learn to deal with as this defines the game of table tennis (as opposed to hard bat, etc.). So I learned to play with and against short, medium, and long pips (also anti if needed) at my level. This isn't anything new, when I played in the 1970's it was the same so anyone who doesn't like it had enough time to switch to pickle ball as there is no spin there ;-)

In my recent U1600 tournament 1/3 of my opponents played pips so it's not like this is a small minority.

I myself went from inverted to short pips to inverted to long pips (and also have a medium pips racket - Dawei 388C-1), and I am not seeing that the balls fly drastically different or even unexpected. The balls are predictable and follow the Magnus effect.

This video by Seth Pech explains really well how to play with or against long pips or anti.

I appreciate that long pips make table tennis more like a game of chess than plain inverted. How did Ni Xia Lian manage to beat a much younger player? I think this is really fascinating to watch. She plays penhold with one inverted and one long pips side. And you need to watch which side is used for every ball as she twiddles during the rallies. Pretty mindboggling.

Also in the event mentioned in this thread Kyoka Ikesawa also beat He Zhuojia (currently ITTF #76) and He also has a long pips backhand. This was interesting to watch too.

 

[Metaxa]

In the past it was even more difficult to play against technical material because everyone had to play with the same color. Those who mastered it and could smoothly turn their blade during the game, much to the chagrin of many.
Playing with LPs is a form of ignorance, not being technically skilled to play with a normal rubber while this is the easiest form.

 

[Attitude]

Exactly this. I'm not surprised at all by this.

LP shouldn't be allowed in tournaments. It's not fair that I have to prepare for inverted and LP and SP in a single tournament. Whereas LP players basically just prepare for 1 style, the double inverted.

There are literally tens of thousands of materials on the Earth. If LP is legal, why not make more different surfaces using other materials? I think its more a legacy of the history of rubber. But in terms of creating a fair sporting and training environment, it really doesn't make sense anymore.

With that argument you need to ban lefthanders too because it is sooooooooooo unfair to prepare against so rare players with a racket in their other hand.

And if you have to prepare for pipplayer then, why do pip players dont have to prepare for them. Where is the logic in that.

All you piphaters seem to miss the fact that a transission is made here from the player. The reason for that could be anatomicly (they cant perform various shots with bh for example in a decent quality), or an injury, or they never learned techniques or couldnt accomplish learning this or that... or simple preference.
But this transission will NEVER make someone all of a sudden a better player in an instant the moment they switched rubbers. They still have to change a lot in their technique, playstyle, racket position, angle... and so on. That alone is a huge process that needs time.

Having more variety and more viable playstyles in TT makes the game way more fun imo. Being able to adapt to the opponents playstyle and equipment is something that comes with being a better player. If you are not capable of playing against anti, sp or lp you are simply lacking.

And one more thing to ERT. He has no "great" videos. He has some decent information but mostly his level of understanding things and overall knowledge is baselevel if it is correct at all. Besides that he is providing a lot of misinformation, stealing information and data from sources he doesnt acknowledge.

 

[Attitude]

In the past it was even more difficult to play against technical material because everyone had to play with the same color. Those who mastered it and could smoothly turn their blade during the game, much to the chagrin of many.
Playing with LPs is a form of ignorance, not being technically skilled to play with a normal rubber while this is the easiest form.

The only form of ignorance here comes from the people being so narrow minded that they want to restrict other players because they lack knowledge and skill.

As the gamercommunity describes it: "git gud!"

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

it’s only true at lower levels than pips player cannot play with inverted rubbers. At something like 2xxx US level, all pips player know how to twiddle and actually know how to use BOTH inverted and pips rubbers. Both their BH and FH drive will be better than yours.

Actually i remember that pro chopper Yuto Muramatsu complained because he said his style needed much more training than a normal player because he had to do all their training PLUS defender-only training…

On the other hand not many inverted players will try to learn pips, not even in a « recreational way »

 

[TensorBackhand]

With that argument you need to ban lefthanders too because it is sooooooooooo unfair to prepare against so rare players with a racket in their other hand.

And if you have to prepare for pipplayer then, why do pip players dont have to prepare for them. Where is the logic in that.

All you piphaters seem to miss the fact that a transission is made here from the player. The reason for that could be anatomicly (they cant perform various shots with bh for example in a decent quality), or an injury, or they never learned techniques or couldnt accomplish learning this or that... or simple preference.
But this transission will NEVER make someone all of a sudden a better player in an instant the moment they switched rubbers. They still have to change a lot in their technique, playstyle, racket position, angle... and so on. That alone is a huge process that needs time.

Having more variety and more viable playstyles in TT makes the game way more fun imo. Being able to adapt to the opponents playstyle and equipment is something that comes with being a better player. If you are not capable of playing against anti, sp or lp you are simply lacking.

And one more thing to ERT. He has no "great" videos. He has some decent information but mostly his level of understanding things and overall knowledge is baselevel if it is correct at all. Besides that he is providing a lot of misinformation, stealing information and data from sources he doesnt acknowledge.

Funny you mention banning left handers. In the movie Rocky, his coach also makes the argument that left handed boxers should be banned because it throws off the opponents rhythm and gives an unfair advantage.

If you check the boxing rankings https://www.ringtv.com/ratings/
Only 10% of population is lefthanded, but 5 of the top 10 boxers are lefthanded. Is that coincidence? Not at all. They have a real advantage. LP players have a real preparation advantage that can easily be made fair.

Now in TT, left handers are still far easier to prepare for than LP.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Btw I think many sports do actually ban left handers. Like in fencing, im pretty sure you have to fight right handed.

 

[NextLevel]

Btw I think many sports do actually ban left handers. Like in fencing, im pretty sure you have to fight right handed.

Can you give a source for that? Want to see whether you are just another ERT which is why you like him so much.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Can you give a source for that? Want to see whether you are just another ERT which is why you like him so much.

What 3 Sports Can Only be Played Right Handed?

What 3 sports can only be played right handed is a great question to be asked the next time you need an ice breaker at a gathering. This question is a great mental stirring game. You really have to think about it and start visualizing people playing sports in your minds eye. This is great for...

www.buddhapants.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13576500701650430?journalCode=plat20#:~:text=Recent%20studies%20show%20that%20in,early%20as%20the%20sixteenth%20century.

Actually apparently fencers can be left handed, but there is apparently widespread acklowledgement of their advantage.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Obviously sports in general are not fair. In basketball, why should tall people have such a insurmountable advantage over short people? Well that's just the nature of the sport.

It's widely known that left handers have an advantage in many sports.

But it would be discriminating to not allow tall or left handers to participate. Banning a unfair technology, on the other hand, levels the playing field and makes sure everybody uses the same technology and has the same preparation.

If you don't agree, then ask yourself, why did ITTF ban non-friction pips rubbers? Why can't players just prepare for this type of rubber?
Why did ITTF ban having same color rubbers on both sides? Why can't players just prepare for such techniques?

 

[Attitude]

What 3 Sports Can Only be Played Right Handed?

What 3 sports can only be played right handed is a great question to be asked the next time you need an ice breaker at a gathering. This question is a great mental stirring game. You really have to think about it and start visualizing people playing sports in your minds eye. This is great for...

www.buddhapants.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13576500701650430?journalCode=plat20#:~:text=Recent%20studies%20show%20that%20in,early%20as%20the%20sixteenth%20century.

Actually apparently fencers can be left handed, but there is apparently widespread acklowledgement of their advantage.

Not true. It is even in discussion that left handers have a disadvantage in this sport...
And even the 3 sports mentioned on this website... The reasons for "banning" lefties" are safety or technical reasons.

And the reason they have an advantage in our sport is simply due to its rarety. Nothing else. They have the same issue forcing lefties themselves.
Same goes for pip players.

And what makes it so hard to prepare for pips?

I mean i even coached a player who struggled a bit against pips. So i bought a decent setup and trained with pips against him. A tournament later he completely destroyed every pip player.

I dont get why people get so upset out of their own deficits...

 

[TensorBackhand]

Not true. It is even in discussion that left handers have a disadvantage in this sport...
And even the 3 sports mentioned on this website... The reasons for "banning" lefties" are safety or technical reasons.

And the reason they have an advantage in our sport is simply due to its rarety. Nothing else. They have the same issue forcing lefties themselves.
Same goes for pip players.

And what makes it so hard to prepare for pips?

I mean i even coached a player who struggled a bit against pips. So i bought a decent setup and trained with pips against him. A tournament later he completely destroyed every pip player.

I dont get why people get so upset out of their own deficits...

For me, its hard to prepare for pips because nobody I play with uses pips. Simple as that. I only ever play against inverted players. This is probably true for most people.

But again, using your argument, what's so hard against preparing for non-friction pips?
What's so hard against preparing for same color pips?
What's so hard against preparing for half inverted and half pips on the same blade side?