Nasty rubber setup, another great ERT video

[Attitude]

Obviously sports in general are not fair. In basketball, why should tall people have such a insurmountable advantage over short people? Well that's just the nature of the sport.

It's widely known that left handers have an advantage in many sports.

But it would be discriminating to not allow tall or left handers to participate. Banning a unfair technology, on the other hand, levels the playing field and makes sure everybody uses the same technology and has the same preparation.

If you don't agree, then ask yourself, why did ITTF ban non-friction pips rubbers? Why can't players just prepare for this type of rubber?
Why did ITTF ban having same color rubbers on both sides? Why can't players just prepare for such techniques?

No need to ask myself that. There were several reasons for that and this information is available and easy to access.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of that go ahead, but dont put this as a fact into any discussion.

Why dont you go and learn playing with pips yourself if this gives you such a huge advantage. I would bet you will be frustrated as hell because playing with pips is a completely different style and not easy to master. And in the end you wont be a better player. I even would go as far to bet on you being a way worse player than before.

 

[TensorBackhand]

No need to ask myself that. There were several reasons for that and this information is available and easy to access.
If you want to make a conspiracy out of that go ahead, but dont put this as a fact into any discussion.

Why dont you go and learn playing with pips yourself if this gives you such a huge advantage. I would bet you will be frustrated as hell because playing with pips is a completely different style and not easy to master. And in the end you wont be a better player. I even would go as far to bet on you being a way worse player than before.

I have tried playing LP. I play worse by 10%, but my regular opponent plays worse by 30%, so I'm actually better than I normally am. But this is only because those regular mates never practice against LP either. So they are just as unprepared.

Again I'm not saying LP itself gives any advantage. I'm saying it's unfair when the opponent isn't prepared for LP. For pro players on the CNT, they have LP sparring partners just for this issue.

Same as if you never played a guy using non-friction pips before. Same as if you have never played a guy using antispin before.

 

[Attitude]

For me, its hard to prepare for pips because nobody I play with uses pips. Simple as that. I only ever play against inverted players. This is probably true for most people.

But again, using your argument, what's so hard against preparing for non-friction pips?
What's so hard against preparing for same color pips?
What's so hard against preparing for half inverted and half pips on the same blade side?

This gets annoying.
Get some knowledge please so we might discuss this on the same level. Knowledge would even help you play against pips out players at your level.

But to answer your questions at least partially.
You cant prepare against something that you can not read because the literal same motions give different results and spin.
Color problem should be more than obvious. If that remains a serious question im out of this thread^^

And WTF @the last question

Being unable to prepare against pip players is as rough as any other playstyle.
Simple example: i have no inverted defender in my club that plays half-high balls (smth like adam). But i had 2 opponents that play like this last season. And i struggled really hard because i am simply not used to hitting balls from this angle.

Therefore i lost several sets against these opponents. But i changed my style eventually and forced them to play shots i can work with. That is the advantage of attacking players against defenders - you can force them to play your game way easier than they can. So in the end i won and the last set was pretty convincing.

Same goes for pip-players in general. Get used to what to expect from the the opponents equipment and use your brain to work with that.
Searching for solutions is part of the sport and is smth that makes someone a good player.

 

[TensorBackhand]

This gets annoying.
Get some knowledge please so we might discuss this on the same level. Knowledge would even help you play against pips out players at your level.

But to answer your questions at least partially.
You cant prepare against something that you can not read because the literal same motions give different results and spin.
Color problem should be more than obvious. If that remains a serious question im out of this thread^^

And WTF @the last question

Being unable to prepare against pip players is as rough as any other playstyle.
Simple example: i have no inverted defender in my club that plays half-high balls (smth like adam). But i had 2 opponents last season. And i struggled really hard because i am simply not used to hitting balls from this angle.

Therefore i lost several sets against these opponents. But i changed my style eventually and forced them to play shots i can work with. That is the advantage of attacking players against defenders - you can force them to play your game way easier than they can.

Same goes for pip-players in general. Get used to what to expect from the the opponents equipment and use your brain to work with that.
Searching for solutions is part of the sport and is smth that makes someone a good player.

Learn to read the spin from the bounce and the arc. It's not hard if you gain some knowledge.

 

[NextLevel]

What 3 Sports Can Only be Played Right Handed?

What 3 sports can only be played right handed is a great question to be asked the next time you need an ice breaker at a gathering. This question is a great mental stirring game. You really have to think about it and start visualizing people playing sports in your minds eye. This is great for...

www.buddhapants.com

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13576500701650430?journalCode=plat20#:~:text=Recent%20studies%20show%20that%20in,early%20as%20the%20sixteenth%20century.

Actually apparently fencers can be left handed, but there is apparently widespread acklowledgement of their advantage.

So in other words, you made it up?

 

[TensorBackhand]

So in other words, you made it up?

No. I said "I think", because I don't know. But I don't remember ever seeing southpaw vs righthanded fencing match, so I thought that might've been an actual rule.

I've done boxing before, and the angle of attack against a southpaw is completely different. It's hard because you are always stepping on each other's feet.

I imagine it would be worse in fencing. And it doesn't change the original point, that being left handed is a significant advantage because the opponent isn't accustomed to your angle.

 

[NextLevel]

For me, its hard to prepare for pips because nobody I play with uses pips. Simple as that. I only ever play against inverted players. This is probably true for most people.

But again, using your argument, what's so hard against preparing for non-friction pips?
What's so hard against preparing for same color pips?
What's so hard against preparing for half inverted and half pips on the same blade side?

I could also argue that tacky rubbers should be banned because the produce weird trajectories. Especially Hurricane. Most people just accept the existence of such things as part of TT.

 

[hclnnkhg]

The solution to make it easier to practice/play against pip players is to have more pip players so they are no longer a minority

 

[TensorBackhand]

I could also argue that tacky rubbers should be banned because the produce weird trajectories. Especially Hurricane. Most people just accept the existence of such things as part of TT.

sure. As long as the rule are creating a fair playing field. If they banned tacky rubbers, I would switch to tensors.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The solution to make it easier to practice/play against pip players is to have more pip players so they are no longer a minority

Sure, I've only ever played against 2 or 3 pips players in my entire life of practice. So I'm totally underprepared.

But again, only in TT do you have this unusual dynamic of such a variation of equipment. Roger Federer never plays an opponent where the spin direction changes because of the type of string. The spin is only 1 direction - the same direction the racket head goes. Badminton , there is no change in the spin of the shuttle based on the equipment. Although some commentators have noted that left-handers seem to be able to smash the shuttle harder, because the feathers in the shuttle are inserted in the same uniform direction that benefits the smash from the left hander. Pickleball, squash, any other racket sport, the spin is the same direction as the racket head.

 

[zeio]

Btw I think many sports do actually ban left handers. Like in fencing, im pretty sure you have to fight right handed.

Yeah, that's so unfair.

Cheung Ka Long, only the 4th non-European men's individual foil Olympic Champion, is left-handed. He just won 2 gold in individual foil and team foil at the World University Games 2021 in Chengdu. A week prior to that, he won bronze in team foil at the World Fencing Championships 2023.

Kong Man Wai Vivian, also a lefty, won gold in individual Epee at the Asian Fencing Championships 2023 2 months ago and the Cali Epee Grand Prix 2023 3 months ago.

 

[NextLevel]

No. I said "I think", because I don't know. But I don't remember ever seeing southpaw vs righthanded fencing match, so I thought that might've been an actual rule.

I've done boxing before, and the angle of attack against a southpaw is completely different. It's hard because you are always stepping on each other's feet.

I imagine it would be worse in fencing. And it doesn't change the original point, that being left handed is a significant advantage because the opponent isn't accustomed to your angle.

The point is to stop citing ERT as an authority - he isn't a reliable source for good TT insight.

This is a completely separate point from whether you think pips should not be allowed or not. Maybe they should to protect your mental health.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The point is to stop citing ERT as an authority - he isn't a reliable source for good TT insight.

This is a completely separate point from whether you think pips should not be allowed or not. Maybe they should to protect your mental health.

He is one opinion. Many time I agree with his point. Sometimes I don't agree with his point. He has list of top 10 FH rubber and top 10 BH rubber, I don't agree with some of his picks. And the premise of having an actual top 10 is really flimsy at best.

Other times I really agree with his points. He said to use 3 degree softer rubber for BH, this is a general rule I try to follow but not always. He said to use hard rubbers and flexier blade. I have found this to work very well.

 

[NextLevel]

He is one opinion. Many time I agree with his point. Sometimes I don't agree with his point. He has list of top 10 FH rubber and top 10 BH rubber, I don't agree with some of his picks. And the premise of having an actual top 10 is really flimsy at best.

Other times I really agree with his points. He said to use 3 degree softer rubber for BH, this is a general rule I try to follow but not always. He said to use hard rubbers and flexier blade. I have found this to work very well.

That is fine - he is clearly a quack to anyone with insight - your opinion is more informed than his. So "Even ERT says" should only be used when you mean "even a guy who fakely claims to be a TT expert says"...

 

[ben1229]

Speed kills all pip.

 

[Metaxa]

With that argument you need to ban lefthanders too because it is sooooooooooo unfair to prepare against so rare players with a racket in their other hand.

Sooo funny! The Swedes and many others will be happy to hear that!

All you piphaters seem to miss the fact that a transission is made here from the player. The reason for that could be anatomicly (they cant perform various shots with bh for example in a decent quality), or an injury, or they never learned techniques or couldnt accomplish learning this or that... or simple preference.
But this transission will NEVER make someone all of a sudden a better player in an instant the moment they switched rubbers. They still have to change a lot in their technique, playstyle, racket position, angle... and so on. That alone is a huge process that needs time.

All so funny...
-I estimate this at 0.1% worldwide.
-I don't know anyone from a club who started table tennis with SP, LP or anti. Everyone has started practicing with inverted rubbers, everyone. It is only afterwards that they started to intervene technological material. Usually because they mastered certain techniques and became discouraged.

Being able to adapt to the opponents playstyle and equipment is something that comes with being a better player. If you are not capable of playing against anti, sp or lp you are simply lacking.

I agree with that! But technological material simply had to be banned.
Imagine if LP players were also allowed to decide which balls to play with, they definitely opt for egg-shaped models!...

 

[Metaxa]

The only form of ignorance here comes from the people being so narrow minded that they want to restrict other players because they lack knowledge and skill.

As the gamercommunity describes it: "git gud!"

Funny again.
What is difficult about playing with double inverted rubbers?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

It is hard to take seriously some of the stuff that is presented in this thread:

(the following is a paraphrasing, I am not going to waste time looking for the actual statement):

"I don't have anyone who uses pips to train against, therefore nobody should be allowed to use pips."

"Lefties should be banned because I don't have lefties to train against and I (incorrectly) think lefties are banned in fencing."

Nobody is forcing you to play against pips players. You can stay in your circle and play vs the guys you play against all you want. But that does not mean that other people should not have to play against any materials that are available. And you even can ignore the fact that, if you lose to a pips out player, the pips out player is doing something you can't handle and therefore the pips out player is actually doing something better than you.

Frictionless pips and aspect ratios: it is interesting that none of the top pros of the time wanted those rubbers banned and thought the use of those rubbers was totally fine. Those rubbers were banned because ITTF was scared it would deter young players from continuing in the sport. It is kind of a stupid reason to ban them.

Two color rule: I feel like this rule made sense and was fine. Who is saying we should go back to the days where pips and anti players could use the same color rubber on both sides? I do think high level players would still be able to read the spin if the player had both sides the same anyway.

====

As I see it Michael, you have plenty of choices on this subject:

1) You could just continue to only play vs two winged offensive players who use pips-in-rubber (smooth offensive rubbers) on both sides.
2) You could find a few decent pips players to train with and train with them to improve your ability to play vs these kinds of rubbers.
3) You could make a pips racket, get another player and alternate who is using the pips and who is using their regular setup: learning to use pips will help you learn to train against them.

But without actually knowing how to play with them or against them, the idea that you have decided that nobody should have to play with or against them seems a little odd to me.

 

[TensorBackhand]

It is hard to take seriously some of the stuff that is presented in this thread:

(the following is a paraphrasing, I am not going to waste time looking for the actual statement):

"I don't have anyone who uses pips to train against, therefore nobody should be allowed to use pips."

"Lefties should be banned because I don't have lefties to train against and I (incorrectly) think lefties are banned in fencing."

Nobody is forcing you to play against pips players. You can stay in your circle and play vs the guys you play against all you want. But that does not mean that other people should not have to play against any materials that are available. And you even can ignore the fact that, if you lose to a pips out player, the pips out player is doing something you can't handle and therefore the pips out player is actually doing something better than you.

Frictionless pips and aspect ratios: it is interesting that none of the top pros of the time wanted those rubbers banned and thought the use of those rubbers was totally fine. Those rubbers were banned because ITTF was scared it would deter young players from continuing in the sport. It is kind of a stupid reason to ban them.

Two color rule: I feel like this rule made sense and was fine. Who is saying we should go back to the days where pips and anti players could use the same color rubber on both sides? I do think high level players would still be able to read the spin if the player had both sides the same anyway.

====

As I see it Michael, you have plenty of choices on this subject:

1) You could just continue to only play vs two winged offensive players who use pips-in-rubber (smooth offensive rubbers) on both sides.
2) You could find a few decent pips players to train with and train with them to improve your ability to play vs these kinds of rubbers.
3) You could make a pips racket, get another player and alternate who is using the pips and who is using their regular setup: learning to use pips will help you learn to train against them.

But without actually knowing how to play with them or against them, the idea that you have decided that nobody should have to play with or against them seems a little odd to me.

Thats not really my point. Even if i practiced a lot against LP and became good at it, I still think it should be a separate category as a sporting event. For me, it creates an uneven playing field, and its a wacky technology that is discouraging for new players, which is why ittf banned anti friction.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Thats not really my point. Even if i practiced a lot against LP and became good at it, I still think it should be a separate category as a sporting event. For me, it creates an uneven playing field, and its a wacky technology that is discouraging for new players, which is why ittf banned anti friction.

ITTF also ban boosting. Boosting also creates an uneven playing field don't you think? So players with boosted rubbers only plays amongst themselves?