How much $ do you spend on coaching?

[Der_Echte]

I'm not sure how helpful coaching would be for me. I find that most of my mistakes are not about the physical technique, but more about the judgement of the ball.

I played a guy last night, he is really not very good at all. But I lost a lot of unnecessary points to him because I often misread the amount of spin on his push. Sometimes I underestimated the spin, sometimes overestimated.

You made me choke on my Orange Juice and it ran out my nose stinging like crazy on the way out.

You are an adult player who has not approached 5-7 levels of what you could become... it is unlikely you will get halfway there without professional assistance... (and you seem like you would want to be a better player... a much better player if you could)

...but the player has control over his or her monetary funds and may spend as little or much for any legal or moral expense he or she wishes.

 

[Der_Echte]

what level is your coach? My impression in Japan is that there are many different categories of coaches. There are genuinely elite coaches and schools like the Harimoto school, then there are more hobbyist schools where maybe a 2000-2200 level player could be employed as a coach.

If takkyu doesn't/didn't reply, his coach competed at 2800+ USATT level I believe.

 

[TensorBackhand]

You made me choke on my Orange Juice and it ran out my nose stinging like crazy on the way out.

You are an adult player who has not approached 5-7 levels of what you could become... it is unlikely you will get halfway there without professional assistance... (and you seem like you would want to be a better player... a much better player if you could)

...but the player has control over his or her monetary funds and may spend as little or much for any legal or moral expense he or she wishes.

I'm not sure. In some ways I feel like I've been making steady progress, and can sometimes compete with pretty high level players over 2000 range.

In other ways, I feel like I still can't do the really simple things right. I struggle more against the quirky unusual players than the good players, and that's why I feel the coach will not really help me much.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I'm not sure. In some ways I feel like I've been making steady progress, and can sometimes compete with pretty high level players over 2000 range.

In other ways, I feel like I still can't do the really simple things right. I struggle more against the quirky unusual players than the good players, and that's why I feel the coach will not really help me much.

Most players I know that have coaching are good at beating choppers, do you know why? Because their coach would practice looping against chopping with them, which is otherwise difficult to access unless you know a good chopper. Many coaches would be able to feed multiball or block with short pimples, long pimples etc. and equip their players against unusual styles.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Most players I know that have coaching are good at beating choppers, do you know why? Because their coach would practice looping against chopping with them, which is otherwise difficult to access unless you know a good chopper. Many coaches would be able to feed multiball or block with short pimples, long pimples etc. and equip their players against unusual styles.

Not just the choppers, just kinda weird serves, weird pushes, floaty pushes, and many other scenarios that I can't recall

 

[hclnnkhg]

Not just the choppers, just kinda weird serves, weird pushes, floaty pushes, and many other scenarios that I can't recall

Yes that's my point. If you just keep playing matches/tournaments, then only a low % of your opponents would have weird styles, and it would take you lots and lots of time to get used to them simply because of lack of exposure. Whereas if you have a coach that can feed you these balls, you can build up the skills and experiences against these weird shots much more quickly.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Yes that's my point. If you just keep playing matches/tournaments, then only a low % of your opponents would have weird styles, and it would take you lots and lots of time to get used to them simply because of lack of exposure. Whereas if you have a coach that can feed you these balls, you can build up the skills and experiences against these weird shots much more quickly.

I've been trying to emulate these weird balls with multi-ball training with my friend.

The problem is, I can handle all the balls when in a multi-ball setting where I know its coming. It's in a game setting where I get nervous and I can't process the speed of the game quick enough that I get all messed up.

 

[hclnnkhg]

I've been trying to emulate these weird balls with multi-ball training with my friend.

The problem is, I can handle all the balls when in a multi-ball setting where I know its coming. It's in a game setting where I get nervous and I can't process the speed of the game quick enough that I get all messed up.

Make your multi-ball from fully regular to more complex and more random i.e. closer and closer to real game situation.
Getting a coach may help if there is any technical flaw. Experience alone can only get so far.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

a few things for personal experience:

- in my normal playing environment with my usual buddies, we just play with 1 ball at a time, because the sports center is crowded and its part of etiquette. When i go to with my coaches, i play in a school environment, we have many balls, we can do multiball. i will play 3x more balls than in a normal session. One could say its stupid to have a super coach feed you multiball but i don't feel this way. Btw one of my coaches (FOERSTER) is freelance and when we play its in the usual venue, so no multiball. in comparison, i feel i train 3x less and get much less for my money, sorry, however good and dedicated the coach is.

- in recent months, we started doing a lot of random drills with multiballs at every session. ofc its much harder. i can work on reaction time, trying to ingrain footwork habits [i still can't move like that in matchplay, or so little]. it can range from totally random (feeding with combination bat inverted + pips, 20x/set ) or semi random (10x/ set of 1 ball played short +3 random long fast balls) or little random (half table vs long push)

it always feel for any exercise i need at least 1 (or 2) sets to get into some good rhythm. the pace is high so its difficult to focus on technique at this speed, its really about stamina, reaction time, athleticism, focus...

one rather new thing ive developed through this exercise is how to have an agressive short stroke and backspin with FH (and BH) too. but somehow in match i keep being afraid of these balls and mostly loop them instead of being as agressive as in those drills

 

[NextLevel]

I've been trying to emulate these weird balls with multi-ball training with my friend.

The problem is, I can handle all the balls when in a multi-ball setting where I know its coming. It's in a game setting where I get nervous and I can't process the speed of the game quick enough that I get all messed up.

Then the feed isn't versatile enough or it is too slow to challenge you. You can simulate just about any form of randomness in a multiball setting as long as you are creative enough and your feeder is skilled enough to replicate it. And the goal of the multiball is not so much replicate reality perfectly, it is to give you tools and build instincts and muscles that work under pressure in real matches.

 

[NextLevel]

Not just the choppers, just kinda weird serves, weird pushes, floaty pushes, and many other scenarios that I can't recall

A lot of these things are dictated by your ability to introduce spin early into the point either on serve or serve return. And honestly, there is no way to avoid the demands to read the ball and to learn from your errors. A good coach can simulate drills where you need to read the ball.

 

[NextLevel]

a few things for personal experience:

- in my normal playing environment with my usual buddies, we just play with 1 ball at a time, because the sports center is crowded and its part of etiquette. When i go to with my coaches, i play in a school environment, we have many balls, we can do multiball. i will play 3x more balls than in a normal session. One could say its stupid to have a super coach feed you multiball but i don't feel this way. Btw one of my coaches (FOERSTER) is freelance and when we play its in the usual venue, so no multiball. in comparison, i feel i train 3x less and get much less for my money, sorry, however good and dedicated the coach is.

- in recent months, we started doing a lot of random drills with multiballs at every session. ofc its much harder. i can work on reaction time, trying to ingrain footwork habits [i still can't move like that in matchplay, or so little]. it can range from totally random (feeding with combination bat inverted + pips, 20x/set ) or semi random (10x/ set of 1 ball played short +3 random long fast balls) or little random (half table vs long push)

it always feel for any exercise i need at least 1 (or 2) sets to get into some good rhythm. the pace is high so its difficult to focus on technique at this speed, its really about stamina, reaction time, athleticism, focus...

one rather new thing ive developed through this exercise is how to have an agressive short stroke and backspin with FH (and BH) too. but somehow in match i keep being afraid of these balls and mostly loop them instead of being as agressive as in those drills

You gotta use the strokes, make mistakes and learn from the mistakes. It is common though to play matches more safely than drills, and it is partly due to limitations reading the ball. I have heard multiple stories that when you watch Freitas practice, you always think he is going to win the tournament because he drives everything powerfully, but in matches, all you got were consistent spin shots.

 

[blahness]

I've been trying to emulate these weird balls with multi-ball training with my friend.

The problem is, I can handle all the balls when in a multi-ball setting where I know its coming. It's in a game setting where I get nervous and I can't process the speed of the game quick enough that I get all messed up.

The other way is to outweird the weird players. I learnt a lot of weird crap like disguising flicks with pushes and it helps me tremendously to understand and read the weird techniques and their limitations and weaknesses. Also, it helps to weird other players off too once you've good at it.

 

[IB66]

Hey TB just get a coach, perhaps you should become a CJ (coach junkie)!!!! you can start writing reviews on their style etc and instead of stagnating your game, actually improve faster.
EJing may be fun but it doesn't cut it when it comes to personal performance, BUT it's really whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. Cool if you still do some more EJing though.

 

[IB66]

You made me choke on my Orange Juice and it ran out my nose stinging like crazy on the way out.

You are an adult player who has not approached 5-7 levels of what you could become... it is unlikely you will get halfway there without professional assistance... (and you seem like you would want to be a better player... a much better player if you could)

...but the player has control over his or her monetary funds and may spend as little or much for any legal or moral expense he or she wishes.

Hell, you made me choke up a ham and turkey sub I was munching into during lunch, I was laughing so much!!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

You got two types of crowd

1) seeking Coaching
2) seeking Excalibur

 

[NextLevel]

You got two types of crowd

1) seeking Coaching
2) seeking Excalibur

Coaching takes up too much time - seeking Excalibur creates legends!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Coaching takes up too much time - seeking Excalibur creates legends!

10 years ago, I will say it is animation/cartoons and all those short cut myths in life
Now I blame that and youtube. lol

There is a word that I like to call - "Feeling".
People think coaches only teach strokes. I actually feel the right statement should be, they are teaching feelings.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Hey TB just get a coach, perhaps you should become a CJ (coach junkie)!!!! you can start writing reviews on their style etc and instead of stagnating your game, actually improve faster.
EJing may be fun but it doesn't cut it when it comes to personal performance, BUT it's really whatever floats your boat and makes you happy. Cool if you still do some more EJing though.

Well I like testing equipment, it keeps me energized and eager to play. And like I wrote in the past, it doesn't seem to have hindered my growth, but rather it has catalyzed my growth by forcing me to play with less than ideal equipment.

RE coaching, I really like to know that I get a solid return on my time and money. I don't think I would get that with coaching and it would just frustrate me. Also, I don't think my biggest issues are technical. So long sessions of technical ball striking wouldn't help me too much. My biggest issues are more analytical understanding of spin, and which shot I should use against what type of ball. So what type of spin is on the ball? and within my portfolio of shots, what type of shot do I need to use to deal with this spin? I often throw away easy points against silly balls because mentally I have no idea what to do.

So rather than having ball-striking long coaching sessions, what I really need is a guy sitting on my shoulder and watching every weird shot that comes to me and gives me advice on how to deal with this ball.

But as I write this, I just had an idea. The 2200 penhold player that I play with apparently used to be a coach at Stellan's club. Maybe I'll ask him how he used to coach and if he could just work with me for a little bit. Maybe that will give me an idea of what I'm missing from coaching. But watching Victor's training videos with Stellan doesn't make me optimistic. I see he does a lot of multi-ball and ball striking training, but I don't think that is my biggest bottleneck right now.

 

[NextLevel]

Well I like testing equipment, it keeps me energized and eager to play. And like I wrote in the past, it doesn't seem to have hindered my growth, but rather it has catalyzed my growth by forcing me to play with less than ideal equipment.

RE coaching, I really like to know that I get a solid return on my time and money. I don't think I would get that with coaching and it would just frustrate me. Also, I don't think my biggest issues are technical. So long sessions of technical ball striking wouldn't help me too much. My biggest issues are more analytical understanding of spin, and which shot I should use against what type of ball. So what type of spin is on the ball? and within my portfolio of shots, what type of shot do I need to use to deal with this spin? I often throw away easy points against silly balls because mentally I have no idea what to do.

So rather than having ball-striking long coaching sessions, what I really need is a guy sitting on my shoulder and watching every weird shot that comes to me and gives me advice on how to deal with this ball.

But as I write this, I just had an idea. The 2200 penhold player that I play with apparently used to be a coach at Stellan's club. Maybe I'll ask him how he used to coach and if he could just work with me for a little bit. Maybe that will give me an idea of what I'm missing from coaching. But watching Victor's training videos with Stellan doesn't make me optimistic. I see he does a lot of multi-ball and ball striking training, but I don't think that is my biggest bottleneck right now.

What do you see as your biggest bottleneck? The truth is that while not everyone admits it, a lot gets better when you have quick and easy power to bring to the ball to overpower lots of no-spin balls with good spin. If you don't know what spin is on the ball, then multiball a basic topspin stroke to apply to no-spin balls in random situations. If moving is part of the problem to execute the stroke, load that as well into the drill.