19th Asian Games Hangzhou

[NextLevel]

ok, so he's injured this time. But is he gonna win his matches when he is uninjured? I haven't seen that yet. but there is always next time

So you are the only one who didn't see him beat both Fan Zhendong and Wang Chuqin in the WTTTC last year? Or are you just someone who only watches when he loses? How many players who are not Chinese have ever beaten everyone on the current Chinese national team at some point in their career? Seriously?

 

[TensorBackhand]

So you are the only one who didn't see him beat both Fan Zhendong and Wang Chuqin in the WTTTC last year? Or are you just someone who only watches when he loses? How many players who are not Chinese have ever beaten everyone on the current Chinese national team at some point in their career? Seriously?

He has the ability to pull out the big wins, but he has to string together the wins in a sequence to win an actual title.

Beating FZD then losing to world rank 13 doesn't result in a major title.

So yes, he has the ability to win big matches. But he also has lost a lot of matches against lower-ranked players. By definition, you have to win 5 or 6 matches in a row to win a title. I haven't seen him do that at the big events yet.

 

[Shifu]

He was literally injured during the match against WR13. He was leading 3:0 and had match point and was injured after. And he already won major tournaments. I think you forget his age. Neither ML nor FZD won those titles at his age.

 

[NextLevel]

He has the ability to pull out the big wins, but he has to string together the wins in a sequence to win an actual title.

Beating FZD then losing to world rank 13 doesn't result in a major title.

So yes, he has the ability to win big matches. But he also has lost a lot of matches against lower-ranked players. By definition, you have to win 5 or 6 matches in a row to win a title. I haven't seen him do that at the big events yet.

Again, which part of being visibly injured (in the 5th game) during the match are you missing? You are going to lose credibility (not that you care as an ERT fan) if you continue to push these arguments without educating yourself on the details. Harimoto was well on his way to winning before getting injured, after the injury timeout, people asked him to stop playing, but he fought to continue but his best wasn't good enough.

Yes, he has lost a lot of games to lower-ranked players, but he also has won titles and holds achievements that far exceed just about everyone who is his age, even with those losses. Wong Chun Ting beats Lin Yun Ju, no one talks about it. Harimoto loses to Jang Woojin, Harimoto needs to switch to Hurricane. The kid is 20 years old, even with his issues, there is still room for him to get so good at what he does over the next 5 years that he still beats players even with his defects. Remember, he isn't playing in the old ITTF era where you could keep your ranking without playing.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Again, which part of being visibly injured (in the 5th game) during the match are you missing? You are going to lose credibility (not that you care as an ERT fan) if you continue to push these arguments without educating yourself on the details. Harimoto was well on his way to winning before getting injured, after the injury timeout, people asked him to stop playing, but he fought to continue but his best wasn't good enough.

Yes, he has lost a lot of games to lower-ranked players, but he also has won titles and holds achievements that far exceed just about everyone who is his age, even with those losses. Wong Chun Ting beats Lin Yun Ju, no one talks about it. Harimoto loses to Jang Woojin, Harimoto needs to switch to Hurricane. The kid is 20 years old, even with his issues, there is still room for him to get so good at what he does over the next 5 years that he still beats players even with his defects. Remember, he isn't playing in the old ITTF era where you could keep your ranking without playing.

Ok, I didn't see the match apart from the score, so I don't know how bad his injury was. Sounds like it affected him detrimentally on this occasion. Maybe he can win a big title next time.

But the truth still stands, BY DEFINITION, to win a WC, you have to win 5 or 6 matches in a row to be champion. He has not done this yet, and his trajectory hasn't looked good the past couple years. So citing a one-off impressive win is pointless, he needs to win a string of matches to win the title.

He has won smaller titles, but not the big titles yet, and certainly not recently.

 

[TensorBackhand]

He was literally injured during the match against WR13. He was leading 3:0 and had match point and was injured after. And he already won major tournaments. I think you forget his age. Neither ML nor FZD won those titles at his age.

I don't think age means anything. Some people just peak early, some late. Certainly WCQ peaked later than Harimoto, but it looks like WCQ will ultimately be the better and more accomplished player.

Even in tennis or badminton, some players just peak earlier but then can't get over their early peak. That's what Harimoto looks like so far.

Harimoto was the best 14 and 16 year old player in history. But he hasn't been improving at the same rate since age 16, and he doesn't look like he can reach the same heights as WCQ.

 

[Shifu]

He won the the world tour grand finals, wtt champions etc. he won more and bigger titles in singles than WCQ despite being a lot younger.

 

[NextLevel]

Ok, I didn't see the match apart from the score, so I don't know how bad his injury was. Sounds like it affected him detrimentally on this occasion. Maybe he can win a big title next time.

But the truth still stands, BY DEFINITION, to win a WC, you have to win 5 or 6 matches in a row to be champion. He has not done this yet, and his trajectory hasn't looked good the past couple years. So citing a one-off impressive win is pointless, he needs to win a string of matches to win the title.

He has won smaller titles, but not the big titles yet, and certainly not recently.

His trajectory hasn't looked good "the past few years" even though he lost 4-2 to a (now) 3-time bronze medallist with each game being decided by 2 points or less in the Quarter Finals of the WTTC this year!! In 2021 he went out in the first round. What is the trajectory of that analysis? Do you know how you sound writing these things?

Again, there is no denying that he has bad losses. But even those bad losses, when placed in the context of what the opponent is capable of on a good day, none of the guys he has lost to are scrubs. I think it is CNT fanboism that leads to the delusional conclusion that everyone is an all time great by the time they are 20 or are washed up. People pretend that everyone can invest into table tennis the way the CNT does and holds Harimoto to that standard, no need to be that delusional.

 

[Richie]

Ok, I didn't see the match apart from the score, so I don't know how bad his injury was. Sounds like it affected him detrimentally on this occasion. Maybe he can win a big title next time.

But the truth still stands, BY DEFINITION, to win a WC, you have to win 5 or 6 matches in a row to be champion. He has not done this yet, and his trajectory hasn't looked good the past couple years. So citing a one-off impressive win is pointless, he needs to win a string of matches to win the title.

He has won smaller titles, but not the big titles yet, and certainly not recently.

Just a question. Why are you holding Harimoto to such high standards compared to other players?
You come across with a strange bias in your posts, which is fine of course, just curious where it's coming from?

You speak with so much confidence on some of these things. But the truth is that you really don't know.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Just a question. Why are you holding Harimoto to such high standards compared to other players?
You come across with a strange bias in your posts, which is fine of course, just curious where it's coming from?

You speak with so much confidence on some of these things. But the truth is that you really don't know.

I hold Harimoto to a high standard because he was the best 14 year old and best 16 year old ever. He was WAY better than Ma Long at 16. So if he kept improving, in theory, he should be destroying ML and the top CNT players by now. But that hasn't happened, because he seem to have peaked already.

It's just like we hold NBA draft #1 pick to a high standard because there were high expectations and hopes. A lot of #1 picks end up being total trash and go down in history as biggest flops ever.

Harimoto is not trash, he's more like Andrew Wiggins. Former #1 pick, but ended up being a good but not truly great player.

 

[TensorBackhand]

His trajectory hasn't looked good "the past few years" even though he lost 4-2 to a (now) 3-time bronze medallist with each game being decided by 2 points or less in the Quarter Finals of the WTTC this year!! In 2021 he went out in the first round. What is the trajectory of that analysis? Do you know how you sound writing these things?

Again, there is no denying that he has bad losses. But even those bad losses, when placed in the context of what the opponent is capable of on a good day, none of the guys he has lost to are scrubs. I think it is CNT fanboism that leads to the delusional conclusion that everyone is an all time great by the time they are 20 or are washed up. People pretend that everyone can invest into table tennis the way the CNT does and holds Harimoto to that standard, no need to be that delusional.

I don't really see your point. he lost to LJK. LJK himself has never won the big titles and usually loses to the ML and FZD and WCQ of the world. I don't think Harimoto brags about losing to LJK. At 16, Harimoto was WAY better than LJK at 16 or even 20, and his trajectory was looking up. Harimoto should've far exceeded LJK based on his early talent. But he has stayed flat. Also QF is still a LONG way from winning the title. He would have to win the QF, win the SF against a better opponent, and win the F against even better opponent.

Just my personal opinion that he has nothing to lose, might as well take a risk and shake something up to try to get over the hurdle.

It's like in boxing if you're losing in the last round of the fight, your only chance is to take some risk and go for the knockout. If you don't change your strategy, you will just lose on points.

 

[Shine]

He won the the world tour grand finals, wtt champions etc. he won more and bigger titles in singles than WCQ despite being a lot younger.

I don't really see your point. he lost to LJK. LJK himself has never won the big titles and usually loses to the ML and FZD and WCQ of the world. I don't think Harimoto brags about losing to LJK. At 16, Harimoto was WAY better than LJK at 16 or even 20, and his trajectory was looking up. Harimoto should've far exceeded LJK based on his early talent. But he has stayed flat. Also QF is still a LONG way from winning the title. He would have to win the QF, win the SF against a better opponent, and win the F against even better opponent.

Just my personal opinion that he has nothing to lose, might as well take a risk and shake something up to try to get over the hurdle.

It's like in boxing if you're losing in the last round of the fight, your only chance is to take some risk and go for the knockout. If you don't change your strategy, you will just lose on points.

Hurricane is not a guarantee for success, if it was Yu Heyi would be world champion. He's working with coaches alright, wait and see how his 20s pan out before making such declarations...
Djokovic didn't start winning early, today he's won more than Federer and Nadal.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Hurricane is not a guarantee for success, if it was Yu Heyi would be world champion. He's working with coaches alright, wait and see how his 20s pan out before making such declarations...
Djokovic didn't start winning early, today he's won more than Federer and Nadal.

No it's not a guarantee. In fact, there's a very likely chance he would play worse with H3. He might play better, he might play worse, he might just be the same.

But would you rather have a 5% chance of winning gold, or a 100% chance of going to QF every time?

Djokovic consistently got better from 18 to 30. His trajectory was always up. Harimoto's trajectory is more like Michael Chang, showed flashes of early success at 17, but then never won big titles later. Of course we don't know Harimoto's full story yet, but right now, it doesn't look good.

 

[Shine]

He won the the world tour grand finals, wtt champions etc. he won more and bigger titles in singles than WCQ despite being a lot younger.

Nah, that's not really true, WCQ has won the cup finals and the WTT champions too. They're practically on the same level of hierarchy of tournaments won. WCQ won the YOG though so there's that. But still equal (Hari has Asian cup, WCQ has Asian games). I think it's gonna be a big rivalry, with Fan and others in the picture of course.

 

[NextLevel]

I don't really see your point. he lost to LJK. LJK himself has never won the big titles and usually loses to the ML and FZD and WCQ of the world. I don't think Harimoto brags about losing to LJK. At 16, Harimoto was WAY better than LJK at 16 or even 20, and his trajectory was looking up. Harimoto should've far exceeded LJK based on his early talent. But he has stayed flat. Also QF is still a LONG way from winning the title. He would have to win the QF, win the SF against a better opponent, and win the F against even better opponent.

Just my personal opinion that he has nothing to lose, might as well take a risk and shake something up to try to get over the hurdle.

It's like in boxing if you're losing in the last round of the fight, your only chance is to take some risk and go for the knockout. If you don't change your strategy, you will just lose on points.

You said the trajectory the past few years has been discouraging, and I pointed out that his results the past two years have shown an upward trajectory despite the recent injuries. You are writing like someone who only believes in hockey stick improvement, real improvement tends to come in waves with periods of going down and periods of going up. I am pointing out that he made the QF in 2023 for the first time since 2017, so if his results were not encouraging, it should have been 2019 and 2021 that you are talking about. Harimoto is proud of his 2023 WTTC QF result, he wants more, but he has to continue to work at it. You seem to think talent is some magic guarantee of something, it never is, and no one knows the magic formula to fully realize talent, all people know are those who do well and they never see the talented who do not.

 

[SFF_lib]

Harimoto's core issue is his play style - almost everyone has analysed him and he has nothing else up his sleeve.
Unlike Harimoto, if you play better close to table ML can exploit your short game or counter. Harimoto has a limited amount of techniques in his arsenals.

But who knows, time will tell. Harimoto might change and have a second peak in his career.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

In case folks missed it.

It is always an equipment problem... according to EJ experts. lol

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Ok, I didn't see the match

Typical TB problem
Talk too much before really know the whole story.

Watch the match, then talk please.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I hold Harimoto to a high standard because he was the best 14 year old and best 16 year old ever. He was WAY better than Ma Long at 16. So if he kept improving, in theory, he should be destroying ML and the top CNT players by now. But that hasn't happened, because he seem to have peaked already.

Have you seen Ma Long at age 16?
Ma Long as Age 16 was way better than HT at age 16.
So have you seen Ma Long at age 16?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Typical TB problem
Talk too much before really know the whole story.

Watch the match, then talk please.

Each time you use the acronym TB, I keep thinking Timo Boll and I was like