WTT Champions Frankfurt 2023

[Egon]

In general Ma Long a whole era, an idol for many. His forehand topspin technique is practically ideal and is used to teach children. He gave a lot to this sport, but what else can he give? Don't you see how every time after the second set Ma Long's concentration drops and he doesn't look like himself?I don't think it's good.
Maybe it’s better to leave gracefully and remain a legend than to pull the burden of responsibility with all your might and ultimately fall under the weight of this load?
Time spares no one. Today, this is not at all the super-fast and invincible Ma Long that exists in thinking stereotypes. This is, first of all, a person and he cannot defeat time.

 

[Egon]

How can one overrate Ma Long? He won everyone and everything and than he did it again. May be you should think about overrating Felix? Time will come and he will be better than Ma coz of age difference but there is close to zero chance he will acomplish same things.

Speaking of Felix.
I think that at one time Jan Ove Walder’s fans thought the same as you do now, that no one would overturn his results, but Ma Long appeared.

 

[Egon]

I feel that today I will still wait for Jan Ove’s fans, who will now start arguing with Ma’s fans about who is cooler

 

[blahness]

He’s pretty right though, in longer rallies Felix clearly had an advantage. Ma Long won primarily in the first 5 balls.

Yep but you gotta go through the 1st 5 balls to get to the later stages of the rally tho.... no one really gets the upper hand in the short game, serve/receive against Ma Long, he is the best at it.

Imo Felix played too much push push with Ma Long... should have just chiquitaed everywhere to force the topspin rallies. And maybe play safer topspins rather than take unnecessary risks all the time.

Lin Yun Ju is a completely different kettle of fish, we will definitely see some insane chiquita play in the final.

 

[SFF_lib]

Yep but you gotta go through the 1st 5 balls to get to the later stages of the rally tho.... no one really gets the upper hand in the short game, serve/receive against Ma Long, he is the best at it.

Imo Felix played too much push push with Ma Long... should have just chiquitaed everywhere to force the topspin rallies. And maybe play safer topspins rather than take unnecessary risks all the time.

Lin Yun Ju is a completely different kettle of fish, we will definitely see some insane chiquita play in the final.

For so long ML often successfully take the match by his top-notch short game and service.

If Felix can find a training partner with the same level of service and short game, he might be able to beat ML

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

That's it! I am switching to BTY LYJ Super ZLC with Dignics on both side plus whatever LYJ is smoking as well.

 

[dingyibvs]

Yep but you gotta go through the 1st 5 balls to get to the later stages of the rally tho.... no one really gets the upper hand in the short game, serve/receive against Ma Long, he is the best at it.

Imo Felix played too much push push with Ma Long... should have just chiquitaed everywhere to force the topspin rallies. And maybe play safer topspins rather than take unnecessary risks all the time.

Lin Yun Ju is a completely different kettle of fish, we will definitely see some insane chiquita play in the final.

Of course, not saying that's an easy thing to do. In fact, other than WCQ no one can consistently take ML to the rally game. Idk how WCQ can be do damn good at receiving ML's services.

As for the Chiquita everywhere strategy, idk if you paid attention to Wang Hao's advice to ML about that. It's really pretty simple, serve short to the FH side, and if Felix starts to Chiquita it then just jam him long "顺势拱他一下".

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At 3:49:26

That's exactly what ML did. Coming out of that time out ML served short to Felix's FH which Felix pushed short and ML won. Then Felix had 2 serves, and when ML serves again Felix Chiquitas and ML returns it deep to his BH for a winner.

At a later time out, I think it was ML's time out, I think WH also revealed that he considers the BH to be Felix's weaker side, so that's clearly something he'd like to attack. He also cautioned ML to focus on placement rather than finishing the point right away, and ML wrapped up the game by a relatively weak attack of a Felix popup to the deep FH corner.

 

[fore.n.back]

As Ishida says, she is not bright. Hayata has mentioned multiple times she can only make up through hard work [1, 2]. It wasn't after Tokyo 2020 that she started to change her habit of hitting heavy shots and you can see that she still over-hits too much.

but Hina's techniques is not that great either so it's understandable her heavy shots have low accuracy, right now Hirano still has the most solid basics, followed by Miwa

 

[fore.n.back]

Of course, not saying that's an easy thing to do. In fact, other than WCQ no one can consistently take ML to the rally game. Idk how WCQ can be do damn good at receiving ML's services.

lol WCQ literally eats and sleeps with ML since they are both in the Beijing team

 

[driversbeat]

but Hina's techniques is not that great either so it's understandable her heavy shots have low accuracy, right now Hirano still has the most solid basics, followed by Miwa

Liu Shiwen was always technically superior to Ding Ning but we all knew how that turned out

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Don't twist your words. The question was what kind of player Ma Long is now, not about his achievements

Ma Long is still pretty high up there in world ranking and wins/losses (79% win rate this year)

 

[SFF_lib]

Of course, not saying that's an easy thing to do. In fact, other than WCQ no one can consistently take ML to the rally game. Idk how WCQ can be do damn good at receiving ML's services.

As for the Chiquita everywhere strategy, idk if you paid attention to Wang Hao's advice to ML about that. It's really pretty simple, serve short to the FH side, and if Felix starts to Chiquita it then just jam him long "顺势拱他一下".

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At 3:49:26

That's exactly what ML did. Coming out of that time out ML served short to Felix's FH which Felix pushed short and ML won. Then Felix had 2 serves, and when ML serves again Felix Chiquitas and ML returns it deep to his BH for a winner.

At a later time out, I think it was ML's time out, I think WH also revealed that he considers the BH to be Felix's weaker side, so that's clearly something he'd like to attack. He also cautioned ML to focus on placement rather than finishing the point right away, and ML wrapped up the game by a relatively weak attack of a Felix popup to the deep FH corner.

Excellent analysis. ML just has so many tactics up his sleeve and he can deploy them depending on who he's playing. Felix is young, hence not so many tactics in his arsenal.

I hope Felix will grow to be in the top 3!! Great to see some variation in tt

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Excellent analysis. ML just has so many tactics up his sleeve and he can deploy them depending on who he's playing. Felix is young, hence not so many tactics in his arsenal.

I hope Felix will grow to be in the top 3!! Great to see some variation in tt

Out of the brothers, Felix has the right head for it.
Felix will be figured out soon enough, and he will just need to become stronger.
I do believe he has a good potential to be the next European giant to haunt the Chinese.

Just hope his brother seeks professional help and hopefully France can have a 3rd player that can also challenge the Chinese in teams event.

 

[SFF_lib]

Out of the brothers, Felix has the right head for it.
Felix will be figured out soon enough, and he will just need to become stronger.
I do believe he has a good potential to be the next European giant to haunt the Chinese.

Just hope his brother seeks professional help and hopefully France can have a 3rd player that can also challenge the Chinese in teams event.

Why is it that foreigners always get studied by the CNT and lose? Why don’t the French and Germans study the Chinese and beat them?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Why is it that foreigners always get studied by the CNT and lose? Why don’t the French and Germans study the Chinese and beat them?

I think CNT uses their extra players to create a copy of the style of a Euro player they want to study. They train some 2800 player to play like Timo Boll and practice.

No other team has this luxury.

Just 1 of many things probably

 

[SFF_lib]

I think CNT uses their extra players to create a copy of the style of a Euro player they want to study. They train some 2800 player to play like Timo Boll and practice.

No other team has this luxury.

Just 1 of many things probably

Good to know. That makes sense. I guess if the entire EU train together they will have the resources to mimic and study the Chinese.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Out of the brothers, Felix has the right head for it.
Felix will be figured out soon enough, and he will just need to become stronger.
I do believe he has a good potential to be the next European giant to haunt the Chinese.

Just hope his brother seeks professional help and hopefully France can have a 3rd player that can also challenge the Chinese in teams event.

What professional help?

A new coach or a psychiatric?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Good to know. That makes sense. I guess if the entire EU train together they will have the resources to mimic and study the Chinese.

There should be a China vs World championship. That would be fun.

I remember when Hirano Miu broke through, the CNT immediately started training up copy players to mimic her timing and rhythm.

 

[Nima Abadi]

He was using an analogy to make a point, maybe it wasn't quite right, but it should be taken as an isolated story to illustrate a point he was trying to make. Nothing to do with the actuals net worth of Ma Long and Felix Lebrun, but a broader point about experience vs talent (again which you may not find a good analogy, and that is okay).

TBH, his whole point was lost on me cause he didn't mention anything about talent.

If I read it literally it's false as Felix doesn't have money and Ma Long is the richest TT player of all time and hate the fact that he's insinuating that Ma Long is playing for that 30k prize.

If i read it figuratively like money is prize or something, it still doesn't make sense as Felix doesn't have any prize yet.

Maybe it lost something in the translation but however I read that comment it makes nada sense to me.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Why is it that foreigners always get studied by the CNT and lose? Why don’t the French and Germans study the Chinese and beat them?

You need to ask the French and Germans that

One main factor is maybe because CNT is a centric team policy and each player is there to serve the boss.
Rest of the world, each player won't be serving anybody but themselves.

IE, you going to ask Boll to change his style and become a clone of WCQ for the next 10 years?