27th ITTF-Asian Table Tennis Championships 2024, Astana, 10/7-13

[zeio]

CHN saved by the toss. XYZ team is hard to overcome for the underdog.

If JPN doesn't get at least 1 point and two 2-3, then PRK will be pronounced the silver medalist.

 

[driversbeat]

Whatever the circumstance, I don't think the Japanese team has better fundamentals than what NK team displayed today. Pretty sure they would lose in a head to head. Makes Hayata's victory against Pyon at the Olympics all the more impressive.

 

[FIXPOINT]

2024 ATTC WS Draw

 

[FIXPOINT]

2024 ATTC MS Draw

 

[NextLevel]

CHN saved by the toss. XYZ team is hard to overcome for the underdog.

If JPN doesn't get at least 1 point and two 2-3, then PRK will be pronounced the silver medalist.

I don't think they were. Why would a different order have favored PRK? This order favored them unless you think Wang Yidi would have lost in a different order somehow. The last two matchs were always going to be the same.

 

[5545]

What kind of WS draw is this for Ito… she’s the only one who has to play first round for singles and it’s against NK?!???? And she has Odo🙄 in 16

 

[pongfugrasshopper]

Hirano got a very, very good draw. Hayata gets Shi Xunyao in R16. Mima Ito gets a PRK player in round 1 and possibly Odo in R16. Miwa has a decent draw.

 

[NextLevel]

I forgot to bring this up: Ayhika not being picked for the Olympics after she beat Sun Yingsha was a topic of discussion in India. To me given how the team was structured, it made perfect sense. However, her performance today gives much more room for such questions to be asked again.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Something ain’t right with SYS today, WYD didn’t really seem to have a hard time against her and Pyon’s game is quite simple with a Good combination of basics, but nothing extraordinary

fatigue

 

[zeio]

Something ain’t right with SYS today, WYD didn’t really seem to have a hard time against her and Pyon’s game is quite simple with a Good combination of basics, but nothing extraordinary

PSG plays more or less the ideal game when it counts - putting the ball on the table. That requires a ton of self-control. If only Hayata has half of that...

With that, she beat DHK 4-1, Mittelham 0-2 -> 4-3, Diaz 0-3 -> 4-3 and broke Hayata's playing hand on the way to losing 1-3 -> 3-4 (blowing her lead in G4 cost her) at Paris 2024. She beat Hirano 4-2 (Hirano won 4-1 at Buenos Aires 2018) before losing to SYS 1-4 at Asian Games 2022. Being in the dark doesn't fully explain it now that she's pushed SYS to the brink at ATTC 2024.

 

[zeio]

What kind of WS draw is this for Ito… she’s the only one who has to play first round for singles and it’s against NK?!???? And she has Odo🙄 in 16

A great opportunity to prove her Olympic gold.

 

[zeio]

I don't think they were. Why would a different order have favored PRK? This order favored them unless you think Wang Yidi would have lost in a different order somehow. The last two matchs were always going to be the same.

Give any underdog team the chance to choose and it's gonna be 100% ABC team unless they don't want to win. That's how SGP beat CHN at WTTC 2010.

I've had enough experience playing local team tournaments since I was a kid. No one would pick XYZ team when given the choice.

 

[NextLevel]

Give any underdog team the chance to choose and it's gonna be 100% ABC team unless they don't want to win. That's how SGP beat CHN at WTTC 2010.

I've had enough experience playing local team tournaments since I was a kid. No one would pick XYZ team when given the choice.

Yes, but the reason why China was on the back foot was that their ace lost early. The reason why ABC is an advantage is because your ace tends to win early. This is not the scenario where ABC was an advantage, in the particular scenario that we saw today, ABC was probably a disadvantage because SYS lost early. The match order didn't really play a role here, the issue was that PRK couldn't get one more match, but the match order didn't determine that since matches 3, 4 and 5 were always going to be the same and in that specific order (which is different from some other ABC and XYZ formats).

 

[zeio]

ABC vs XYZ
A vs Y
B vs X
C vs Z
A vs X
B vs Y

Note that ABC is more balanced than XYZ. A and B both have 2 matches before their next match. X has only 1 and Y has 3. ABC has more room for error for both A and B. XYZ not so much, where X has less time to recover, win or lose, and whatever momentum Y gains will have dissipated.

LSW was X in WT F of WTTC 2010.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

ABC vs XYZ
A vs Y
B vs X
C vs Z
A vs X
B vs Y

Note that ABC is more balanced than XYZ. A and B both have 2 matches before their next match. X has only 1 and Y has 3. ABC has more room for error for both A and B. XYZ not so much, where X has less time to recover, win or lose, and whatever momentum Y gains will have dissipated.

LSW was X in WT F of WTTC 2010.

Harimoto played X here

 

[dingyibvs]

Both Chinese teams are pretty vulnerable this year as each is without 2 of their best players. Still the favorites of course, but much more interesting than normal years.

Nice draws BTW. On the women's side I hope to see the Hayata vs Shi Xunyao match. Shi gave WMY all she could handle, would be a great matchup against Hayata.

On the men's side, I was a bit saddened not to be able to see the Faraji vs LSD match yesterday, but looks like we'll have a good chance of seeing it during the 2nd round. We'll see a LJK vs Alamiyan one too, let's see if LJK is ready to avenge his loss the last time they met.

 

[zeio]

I wonder why I couldn't find this the last time. TWC 2018 was used to study the choices of ABC/XYZ teams. The team winning the toss picked ABC team 100% in stage 1 and there were 4 times XYZ team was picked in stage 2. Twice for JPN, and once for HKG and FRA and the reasons were interesting.

东京奥运会乒乓球团体赛制改革背景下中国队夺金策略--基于团体新赛制及其排阵策略的视角
Study on the Strategies of Chinese Table Tennis Team for Winning Gold Medals under the Background of Reform on Team Match System at Tokyo Olympics:from the Perspective of New Format of Team Match and Strategy of Team Composition and Order of Play
http://www.dku51.com/article-12355.html
https://lib.cqvip.com/Qikan/Article/Detail?id=7101674778

2.2.2主客队选择的现状分析。乒兵球团体比赛中,双方需在赛前进行挑边,嬴得挑边的队伍可优先进行主客队的选择。在世界杯的小组赛中,全部24场比赛的挑边胜方均选择了主队,主队的被选择率为100%:在第2阶段的淘汰赛中,有10场比赛的挑边获胜方选择了主队,有4场比赛的挑边获胜方选择了客队,主队的被选择率为71.4%。总体来看,教练员在赢得挑边后,选择主队的概率非常大,主队总的被选择率高达89.5%。

值得注意的是,出现的4次选择客队均是在第2阶段,原因可能是随着比赛的进行,教练员对新赛制的认识不断提升,在排兵布阵时对新赛制有了更为准确的理解。通过在比赛现场的访谈得知,香港女队与法国男队在14决赛中选择客队的主要原因是他们的队内1号需要参与双打,且这2个队伍的教练员在当时认为队内一号适合双打的情况下选择客队更为有利。此外,日本女队在半決赛与決赛中均选择了客队,原因是对手韩国队与中国队在之前所有比赛中选择主队时的排阵相对固定,日本女队将主队让予对手,可更加准确的掌握对手排阵信息。这也在一定程度上反应出,教练员的排阵都是经过深思熟虑的,但他们仅是凭借各自的经验,缺乏理论的指导。

2.2.2 Analysis of the current situation of home and away team selection. In table tennis team competitions, both sides need to choose sides before the game. The team that wins the toss can have priority in selecting the home and away teams. In the group stage of the World Cup, the winners of all 24 games chose the home team, and the home team’s selection rate was 100%: In the knockout stage of the second stage, the winners of 10 matches chose the home team, there were 4 matches where the winning side chose the away team, and the home team’s selection rate was 71.4%. Generally speaking, after winning the pick, the coach has a very high probability of choosing the home team. The total selection rate of the home team is as high as 89.5%.

It is worth noting that the 4 times the away team was selected were all in the second stage. The reason may be that as the tournament progresses, the coaches’ understanding of the new match format continues to improve, and they have a better understanding of the new match format when arranging their lineups. Through interviews at the competition site, it was learned that the main reason why the Hong Kong women's team and the French men's team chose the away team in the 1/4 final was that their No. 1 on the team needed to participate in doubles, and the coaches of the two teams believed at the time that when their No. 1 was suitable for doubles, it was more advantageous to choose the away team. In addition, the Japanese women's team chose the away team in both the semifinal and the final. The reason is that the opponents South Korea [North Korea in fact] and China have relatively fixed lineups when choosing the home team in all previous matches. The Japanese women's team gave up the home team to their opponents to have a better grasp of the opponent's lineup information. This also reflects to a certain extent that the coaches' lineups are carefully considered, but they only rely on their own experience and lack theoretical guidance.

 

[NextLevel]

ABC vs XYZ
A vs Y
B vs X
C vs Z
A vs X
B vs Y

Note that ABC is more balanced than XYZ. A and B both have 2 matches before their next match. X has only 1 and Y has 3. ABC has more room for error for both A and B. XYZ not so much, where X has less time to recover, win or lose, and whatever momentum Y gains will have dissipated.

LSW was X in WT F of WTTC 2010.

I don't think you are trying to hear the argument so at this point, I will bow out in peace. Originally I agreed with you but them I realized that the last two matches would always be the same. Again, the reason ABC is better is because the A player has a chance to set the tone. If the A player loses, it is no better than being XYZ in this specific match format. Not other match formats where A, B and C players three times each or formats like Olympics teams matches where one player gets to play twice before a other player does.

If you aren't posting something that superficially discusses that point for this specific match, we are just going round in circles.

 

[NextLevel]

ABC vs XYZ
A vs Y
B vs X
C vs Z
A vs X
B vs Y

Note that ABC is more balanced than XYZ. A and B both have 2 matches before their next match. X has only 1 and Y has 3. ABC has more room for error for both A and B. XYZ not so much, where X has less time to recover, win or lose, and whatever momentum Y gains will have dissipated.

LSW was X in WT F of WTTC 2010.

So you are looking at it as if more rest would have given PRK a better chance to win and that more rest made SYS play better?

Okay. Then I will let people decide for themselves if that played a major role in this match. That makes more sense.

 

[5545]

A great opportunity to prove her Olympic gold.

Which she has miserably failed to for the past three years